[LP CYOA] Epic

[treave]

According to treave, the Gieloth have some method of short-range communications.

Yup, it's called talking and writing.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

 

[m4davis]

B

 

[kazgar]

You're underestimating a benefit of A. Sure taking out the general gieloth is important, but its more important for _none_ of the scouting group (all 6) to come back. Or if they do, its before they get to work out what they're up against. If they're unable to scout out defenses they won't see the fire/pit traps before daylight and one trap may be enough to break a axle/set fire to the tower, or they won't know about the breach, or they won't know the composition of enemy forces.

Its a bigger advantage then knowing all that, and not having the tower, as then the traps won't be a surprise, and they know they have a 6-1 numerical advantage.

If you can stop all 6, they'll also have the morale loss of the general and his squad (who may be known to be somewhat superhuman) as well as the fear of the dark/unknown. do they send out a bigger/well armed scouting group, or do they just wait to daylight? All these work in the defenders favour IMHO more than the tower itself. We have traps they don't know about, and a moat with crocodiles they don't know about, what the day does to the tower is yet to be determined.

edit: and if you do go after them, and one make it back (and we survive) all they'll have tales about is some sort of superhuman/demigod out there in the dark helping the defenders, sowing fear in the minds of many.

 

[Esquilax]

kazgar: And I think you're underestimating the downsides of A. As the update said, we came here recklessly on our own so we have to be aware of our limitations. Since we're on our own, we need to rely on our strengths given the situation - that is, being able to inconspicuously wander into the back of the camp and destroy the tower before anyone realizes what's going on.

I believe that with the Honorblade, we can beat the general and the scouts. But the battle would leave us drained and potentially severely injured, a Pyrrhic victory at best. As I've stated, this guy is probably not the pushover in combat that Sekhenun was. This Gieloth is a warrior, just like us, so we can't take him lightly, especially when there's another Gieloth to deal with afterwards. If we want to kill both of them, we're going to have to be a bit more clever than that.

But let's say you're right, the scouts come back and report that the place is booby-trapped; well, that doesn't make them any less fucked. Without a siege tower, their only option would be to throw enough men at the wall in hopes that the men at the gates will break. If they don't find the traps, that's better I guess, but my point is they won't have a choice but to deal with them regardless of whether they know about them or not if the tower is destroyed.

There's more than one way to sap their morale. We aren't going to break their spirit in a single day here. The most effective and safest way given our situation is to rely on attrition once the traps have taken out a large number of their men. One of the few advantages our army has against the Babylonians is that we're located near the Nile Delta and we have a great network of civilian logistical support. We can send people out to gather food and supplies easily, the Babylonians can't. They have to feed an army six times larger than ours, and that army is very far from home. As the days draw on further, their morale will sink.

To win this thing, we should try to think one step ahead. What are we going to do tomorrow? The day after, etc?

This is how I picture tomorrow happening:

We remove the siege tower without any fuss tonight (infiltration and sabotage should be easy since we're on our own) meaning their men must traverse through the traps on foot, sustaining heavy casualties. There are 2 Gieloth leaders among the enemy, and at this point, they probably know about the exposed northern wall. An initial plan will potentially look like this: One Gieloth leading the Babylonian soldiers into the gates, the other sneaking in through the north wall to stage a surprise attack, which is where we'll be waiting. Battles are always chaotic, and there are variables here, but I feel that B makes the siege far more easy to predict, and stability is something we desperately need given what we're up against.

With option A, there are way too many question marks. What if the siege tower shrugs off the traps, which seems very likely based on Lambchop's reasoning? What if we're really hurt and can't fight at 100% because much like Sekhunen, this guy has abilities that nullify our regeneration? It's a serious gamble.

Now, I am also taking a chance here too, but I feel it's more of a calculated risk: I'm betting that the Gieloth general won't decide to breach the northern wall when he and his scouts notice it. It's a big risk to take, but I feel that it's also a reasonable, calculated risk based on the facts at hand. He has 8,000 elite soldiers and a siege tower in preparation for tomorrow, so it doesn't follow that he would all of a sudden go on a solo killing spree into the fortress if he's brought so many strong, disciplined men with him.

 

[kazgar]

Pretty easy to disable/go round traps when you know about them, and they can spend a day or so doing it, and then they've been totally nullified, and the whole funnelling aspect is lost, so the superior numbers can be applied to the whole fort even without the tower.

I agree the general probably won't go in the breach this evening, but who's to say he can't transport in more than just himself using his powers, if a brigade of soldiers come with him through the gap, Ean sitting there waiting for him may not work. It would be better if he doesn't find out about it, and better again if he heads out into the darkness and never returns.

Even if we're down for a day or two killing him, we may delay the advance for a similar amount of time, battleplans to be redrawn, enemy strength to be scouted/re-assessed, even a minor sortie to work out whats going on.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Well, E beat me to it, but I'll post anyway...

Even if they knew about the traps, it still wouldn't help them assault the fort if they have no siege tower - which as we've discussed would allow them to bypass the majority of our traps.

Towers such as these are very difficult to create and to transport. They wouldn't have brought it if it wasn't the crux of their battle-plan. Destroying it would be a greater blow even than the loss of a general - who btw would just be replaced by the other gieloth.

Even if we took out the general and damaged their morale the 8000 Babylonians would still have 1 gieloth that could enter through the breach and 8000 elite, battle-hardened troops that could assault our fort with relative ease thanks to the tower. Their plan would be unaltered and we would be screwed.

edit: and you can't "disable" pitfall traps or "go around them". They're like mines. Unless you know where each one is and put little flags on them, someone is bound to fall into one.

 

[kazgar]

We can't send telepathic messages right? If we could, should send a message for someone to get the guard to stand on the ramparts with some torches and arrows, y'know, just cos. If they can keep him/them away by more conventional means, B becomes a better option.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Nope we can't send. Seku said she'd have to fuck up our brain to do that.

edit: oh, but that was just with the gieloth... Anyway, we've never done it before, so even if we could there's a good chance we'd just be broadcasting to everyone that could hear.

 

[Zero Credibility]

A

Traps will still be effective even against the tower. All it takes is for one wheel to fall into a pit and given the weight of the thing they will never get it out in time. Yes, there is a clear path to our gates, but they don't know that. And if we take out their scouts now, they won't even know there are traps at all - they will send in the tower first, and their troops in cover behind it - right into our traps. There is also the matter of our moat - they will need to fill it up before getting that thing to our walls. Not an easy task with our men throwing stones and arrows at them, not to mention those crocodiles.

This general guy is smart - not at all lazy like we thought and probably a big factor in their success so far. We need to take him out now - yes, he has 5 bodyguards, but we do have element of surprise and our weapon on our side. Those 5 bodyguards won't last a few seconds against us, and then it will be one on one. A general against general. It's the best odds we'll get to take that bastard out.

 

[Azira]

Even though I think tentacles should die, I'm for disabling the siegetower as well. We don't have any other means to, this is our one chance. The general will present himself again eventually. Probably during the battle.

B

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Traps will still be effective even against the tower. All it takes is for one wheel to fall into a pit and given the weight of the thing they will never get it out in time.

That depends on the tower happening over a pitfall trap large enough for it to get stuck in. What if it avoids them or rolls right over because they are too small?

Yes, there is a clear path to our gates, but they don't know that.

But they will when we light the fire traps. They'll get "funneled" straight in.

This general guy is smart - not at all lazy like we thought and probably a big factor in their success so far.

We actually don't know that the general is the one who's truly in charge here. He could just lead the troops into battle and the guy in the tent is the genius formulating all the plans.

Even if he is the smart one and we take him out, his plan will still be carried out virtually unchanged. B forces the enemy to radically alter their strategy.

 

[newcomer]

Fine, you guys have convinced me to flop to B.

I'm concerned that our traps will not hit the siege tower, and that's more fucked up than having a few tentacles entering through the breach

And we can always place more surprises on the breach, since normal soldiers won't likely get through the crocodiles

 

[Zero Credibility]

Traps will still be effective even against the tower. All it takes is for one wheel to fall into a pit and given the weight of the thing they will never get it out in time.

That depends on the tower happening over a pitfall trap large enough for it to get stuck in. What if it avoids them or rolls right over because they are too small?

We would need clarification on that to be sure, but I very much doubt these pits are that small. They are probably deep trenches, wide enough to prevent enemy to just walk over them - it's definitely easier to dig out something like that then many smaller pits (especially in the sand). If the tower hits something like that, it's done for. A single wheel will get it stuck, if not tip it over. One way of dealing with towers in the dung ages was precisely to dig out trenches in front of the wall and fill them with soft earth, so the tower gets stuck - those things are fucking heavy. We didn't fill them with earth, but they are hidden some other way.

Yes, there is a clear path to our gates, but they don't know that.

But they will when we light the fire traps. They'll get "funneled" straight in.

So don't light them until the tower is neutralized. The tower won't head directly for our gates anyway - the whole point of it is to open another front during the assault. It will head for our walls instead (and hopefully right over our pits). If they really decide to advance in the cover of the tower (an otherwise sensible option unless the terrain prevents it - which is probably what their general is checking out now) the tower could easily get stuck early on.

This general guy is smart - not at all lazy like we thought and probably a big factor in their success so far.

We actually don't know that the general is the one who's truly in charge here. He could just lead the troops into battle and the guy in the tent is the genius formulating all the plans.

Even if he is the smart one and we take him out, his plan will still be carried out virtually unchanged. B forces the enemy to radically alter their strategy.

True, we don't know that he's the one calling the shots. But something tells me that when it comes to military matters he's the guy that is going to give us problems. Notice that he's scouting our defences himself - just like we are. I think the other Gieloth is probably a sorcerer of some kind, and not the person with skills necessary to successfully adapt their strategy when the siege tower gets taken out. And taking the general guy out will be a crushing blow to their morale. But I admit, that is just speculation.

Maybe we can get some confirmation from treave as to just what kind of pits we have dug out.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And taking the general guy out will be a crushing blow to their morale. But I admit, that is just speculation.

Well, it says it in the choice description, so you're justified. I'll admit you have a good argument, but it all depends on the tower not going to the gate and also getting stuck in a pitfall trap. Neither of which are in our power to control.

Maybe we can get some confirmation from treave as to just what kind of pits we have dug out.

treave
Seconded.

edit:
Very good question about the gate, Zero. I had wondered about that as well.

 

[Zero Credibility]

treave, can you also tell us what are our defences at the gate - do we even have a drawbridge over the moat? It isn't an ordinary bridge, is it? I mean, we'd have to really stupid to leave it standing if it was.

 

[treave]

Pretty big ones. If the tower rolls into one it won't be getting out soon... at least from what you can see from this distance. Assuming that it is a siege tower. Also there is no bridge. The moat doesn't close off the fortress entirelyIt It was built so that any incoming men would have to go through the gate unless they fancied a swim.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Pretty big ones. If the tower rolls into one it won't be getting out soon... at least from what you can see from this distance.

A little clarification please: The way leading up to the gate - does it have pitfalls? It didn't sound like it as we'd need have a clear route for the chariot charge...

Assuming that it is a siege tower.

And not a packed up trebuchet or worse... Whatever it is it must be important for them to transport it all the way here.

Also there is no bridge. The moat doesn't close off the fortress entirelyIt It was built so that any incoming men would have to go through the gate unless they fancied a swim.

Then in order to bypass the moat they'd probably go straight for the gate.

 

[Baltika9]

A for ContrArian.
B for trojan horse.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Pretty big ones. If the tower rolls into one it won't be getting out soon... at least from what you can see from this distance. Also there is no bridge. The moat doesn't close off the fortress entirelyIt It was built so that any incoming men would have to go through the gate unless they fancied a swim.

Oh crap. That means that the tower will head straight for the gates as well (otherwise they'll have to deal with the moat). If it does that, is it likely it will hit the pits or not? Just what is the direction of the untrapped corridor where we plan to saw chaos with our chariot - it's not leading directly away from the doors at the right angle, is it? I mean, that would be silly, since that would be the most likely direction the enemy troops would take as well.

These doors will be our major problem, siege tower or no - I didn't realize the moat didn't cover us completely.

 

[treave]

Partially yes to the pitfalls. That is, they don't block off the path entirely. It would be funny if, say, you had to jump over the pit every time you went out. There's another trick about the pits to do with their layout that Ean is holding in reserve.

Good chance of the tower hitting a pit if they decide to drive it up to the gates. You haven't really realized it yet, but that thing is big.

The path channeled by the fire doesn't run directly straight. More of a slight twisty path. Again there's another trick that Ean has in reserve.

 

[Esquilax]

Traps will still be effective even against the tower. All it takes is for one wheel to fall into a pit and given the weight of the thing they will never get it out in time. Yes, there is a clear path to our gates, but they don't know that. And if we take out their scouts now, they won't even know there are traps at all - they will send in the tower first, and their troops in cover behind it - right into our traps. There is also the matter of our moat - they will need to fill it up before getting that thing to our walls. Not an easy task with our men throwing stones and arrows at them, not to mention those crocodiles.

This general guy is smart - not at all lazy like we thought and probably a big factor in their success so far. We need to take him out now - yes, he has 5 bodyguards, but we do have element of surprise and our weapon on our side. Those 5 bodyguards won't last a few seconds against us, and then it will be one on one. A general against general. It's the best odds we'll get to take that bastard out.

Well, they managed to haul the thing all the fucking way from Babylon, so it's gotta be somewhat reliable, right? And it's gotta be important too, and it's possibly more than just a siege tower, given the metal bits around it. The important part is that our traps are designed to kill soldiers, we didn't equip ourselves to deal with siege towers. So the weapons we have at our disposal simply aren't going to deal well with a siege tower because that's not the type of enemy they're designed to fight. If we had catapults, they could reliably take them out with little trouble, but we have to play the hand we're dealt.

Voting A at this juncture is wildly inconsistent with what we've done thus far. We've set up our defenses in such a way to kill soldiers, we didn't set them up for targets like siege towers. That gives good reason to vote B. Second, we've come here alone so as to make infiltration/sabotage as easy as possible. Being on our own makes us well-suited for sabotage, but poorly suited towards starting a one-man ambush on a guy who seems to be close to our equal in battle. That gives us good reason not to vote A. Sure, killing his guards will take only a few brief seconds, but a few brief seconds is all he needs to get his bearings and counter-attack. We can beat him, but not without cost.

If we are cunning and use the exposed wall as bait, we can fight him under much more favourable circumstances. With morale crushed from the failed initial assault and a destroyed siege tower, he'll have no choice but to find an alternate route in, where we'll be waiting for him.

First and foremost we have to be true to our choices. We chose to set up traps to cause as many casualties as possible, then we chose to come to the enemy camp alone, so we have to be consistent with what we've already done. I feel like the possible benefits of A are making people want to have their cake and eat it too. You want to be able to both kill the general right now and destroy the siege tower/ballista/clowncar/whatever with our traps tomorrow, and I feel that's impossible given the circumstances. It's one or the other for now, and we shouldn't get greedy this early in the game.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Partially yes to the pitfalls. That is, they don't block off the path entirely. It would be funny if, say, you had to jump over the pit every time you went out. There's another trick about the pits to do with their layout that Ean is holding in reserve.

Good chance of the tower hitting a pit if they decide to drive it up to the gates. You haven't really realized it yet, but that thing is big.

If they decide to... Makes me wonder if it is a siege tower after all and not a gieloth magiced-up tebuchet...

The path channeled by the fire doesn't run directly straight. More of a slight twisty path. Again there's another trick that Ean has in reserve.

Well, if Ean knows it then shouldn't we? We are in his head you know...

edit:

You want to be able to both kill the general right now and destroy the siege tower/ballista/clowncar/whatever with our traps tomorrow, and I feel that's impossible given the circumstances. It's one or the other for now, and we shouldn't get greedy this early in the game.

lol Oh, please let it be a clown car. Good point though. Let's not be greedy.

B is the safest choice for the moment. It's the option we know will definately screw up their plan.

 

[treave]

Well, let's just say the Honourblade is pretty useful...

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Oh, I see! We'll morph the honourblade into a multiheaded dildo and the dicks with slither through the pits and come out hitting ass and leg! Brilliant!

edit: Or something with fire maybe...