Interview Massive Wasteland 2 Audio Interview with Brian Fargo and Nathan Long at Through the Aftermath

[I_am_Ian]

I'm sure Fargo would love to write alternate plot lines that include being rogue rangers but he does not have unlimited resources here, ladies and gentlemen and Roguey.

 

[crawlkill]

I'm sure Fargo would love to write alternate plot lines that include being rogue rangers but he does not have unlimited resources here, ladies and gentlemen and Roguey.

no! double the length of the game for me! write an entire other branching story with different dialogue for four-fifths of the nodes!

 

[l3loodAngel]

Have fun role-playing you righteous ranger... And pretending to have choice.

 

[Infinitron]

Have fun role-playing you righteous ranger... And pretending to have choice.

"I want to be a mass murderer and still get to be the hero!!!"

Don't you realize you're advocating for the "choice" of a Bethesda LARPer?

 

[Excidium]

B-but everyone should experience the entire game no matter how they play

 

[l3loodAngel]

B-but everyone should experience the entire game no matter how they play

N-no everyone should role play Walker or be left in limbo

 

[Roguey]

I'm sure Fargo would love to write alternate plot lines that include being rogue rangers but he does not have unlimited resources here, ladies and gentlemen and Roguey.

no! double the length of the game for me! write an entire other branching story with different dialogue for four-fifths of the nodes!

~Indirect reaction systems~ make such things unnecessary. Looks like inXile is way behind the curve on this.

 

[I_am_Ian]

How exactly does an indirect reaction system work?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Dude, it looks like you're way behind the curve on that.

Shame.

Roguey will not approve.

 

[crawlkill]

~Indirect reaction systems~ make such things unnecessary. Looks like inXile is way behind the curve on this.

you're gonna have the Shadowrun Returns tool in about 24 hours, mate. show us how it's done. I'd love to see it, for serious. work Sawyer in naked for me, I'd love to see that, too.

 

[Roguey]

How exactly does an indirect reaction system work?

Things like reputation. You do things a faction doesn't like, now they hate you and shoot you on sight.

 

[Brother None]

Things like reputation. You do things a faction doesn't like, now they hate you and shoot you on sight.

...like the Desert Rangers hating you and shooting you on sight?

 

[Roguey]

Things like reputation. You do things a faction doesn't like, now they hate you and shoot you on sight.

...like the Desert Rangers hating you and shooting you on sight?

Yesssss. But that's no reason to cut out LA in its entirety.

 

[Infinitron]

Things like reputation. You do things a faction doesn't like, now they hate you and shoot you on sight.

...like the Desert Rangers hating you and shooting you on sight?

Yesssss. But that's no reason to cut out LA in its entirety.

Why not?

Again, is there some rule that all RPGs must be able to provide the same, basic overarching storyline to all characters, no matter what acts they commit? Don't you think you're straining believability and hampering creative vision by placing that demand on game designers?

I say this because after playing many games I've begun to notice how their stories are designed so that you can do anything and still progress. Certain predictable patterns emerge. It feels mechanical and artificial.

 

[Excidium]

Sawyer probably has some design lingo for that

 

[Infinitron]

Sawyer probably has some design lingo for that

He didn't respond to my followup question on Formspring, which makes me think he glanced at this thread and decided he didn't want to get involved.

 

[Roguey]

Why not?

Because any reason they give me for not allowing me to visit that area is probably going to come across as contrived.

Again, is there some rule that all RPGs must be able to provide the same, basic overarching storyline for all characters, no matter what acts they commit? Don't you think you're straining believability and hampering creative vision by placing that demand on game designers?

No.

I say this because after playing many games I've begun to notice how their stories are designed in such a way that you can do anything and still progress. Certain predictable patterns emerge. It feels mechanical and artificial.

Freedom with consequences is good, railroading is not.

 

[Infinitron]

Because any reason they give me for not allowing me to visit that area is probably going to come across as contrived.

Any reason, huh?

OK, I'll remember you said that.

No.

No, what?

Freedom with consequences is good, railroading is not.

Spare us your meaningless mantras please and respond like a normal human being

 

[Infinitron]

Common patterns seen in games that give you "freedom to do anything you want!" but still want everybody to have the same basic story:

1) You can never meet anybody in the game world who is truly important on a "global scale". Because if you can meet such a person, you might kill him, or try to kill him, with world-changing consequences.
2) Alternatively, such characters are marked invincible and the world doesn't react to your attempted murder outside of all the guards in that area attacking you. Or even worse, you can kill them and the world still doesn't react.
3) Any NPC with vital information will always fortuitously be carrying a written copy of said information on his person, so if he gets killed, you can still progress.
4) As such, no minor NPC can ever truly "matter" in the long run, because the story can't rely on them being alive. So you're constantly meeting NPCs who are immediately discarded from the storyline and forgotten after you're done with their quest.
5) There are always TWO OPPOSING FACTIONS so if you piss one off, you can get help from the other. The two factions might even have separate storylines for a while, but they always converge.
6) Somehow, no matter what you choose to do in the game, in every playthrough you find yourself playing through the same areas and completing the same basic tasks. At best, if you're allied with Faction A, you might have to perform an opposite task than if you were allied with Faction B.

Now, this kind of design is pretty clever, but eventually you notice the patterns and it becomes a bit tiresome. And I don't see anything wrong with having one game that tries to be a bit more natural.

 

[Roguey]

Common patterns seen in games that give you "freedom to do anything you want!" but still want everybody to have the same basic story:

1) You can never meet anybody in the game world who is truly important on a "global scale". Because if you can meet such a person, you might kill him, or try to kill him, with world-changing consequences.
2) Alternatively, such characters are marked invincible and the world doesn't react to your attempted murder outside of all the guards in that area attacking you. Or even worse, you can kill them and the world still doesn't react.
3) Any NPC with vital information will always fortuitously be carrying a written copy of said information on his person, so if he gets killed, you can still progress.
4) As such, no minor NPC can ever truly "matter" in the long run, because the story can't rely on them being alive. So you're constantly meeting NPCs who are immediately discarded from the storyline and forgotten after you're done with their quest.
5) There are always TWO OPPOSING FACTIONS so if you piss one off, you can get help from the other. The two factions might even have separate storylines for a while, but they always converge.
6) Somehow, no matter what you choose to do in the game, in every playthrough you find yourself playing through the same areas and completing the same basic tasks. At best, if you're allied with Faction A, you might have to perform an opposite task than if you were allied with Faction B.

Now, this kind of design is pretty clever, but eventually you notice the patterns and it becomes a bit tiresome. And I don't see anything wrong with having one game that tries to be a bit more natural.

That's all preferable to Morrowind-style "time to reload" messages, or straight up blocking progress.

Also you hear NCR barkstrings if you kill Caesar in New Vegas, that's the world reacting.

 

[Broseph]

That's all preferable to Morrowind-style "time to reload" messages, or straight up blocking progress.

Morrowind actually has a backdoor to the main quest if you kill Vivec.

 

[Liston]

Yesssss. But that's no reason to cut out LA in its entirety.

If you are vilified by Powder Gangers by the time you reach NCRCF the area becomes practically cut out, you can only walk around it in uniform without doing any quests. Btw one of those quests is helping NCR take over NCRCF which you can't do even if you pickpocket attack plans only because the group you want to destroy hates you. Some people would call this contrived.

Were is your God now?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Because any reason anybody who is not Josh Sawyer gives me for anything is probably going to come across as contrived.

 

[Lancehead]

I certainly hope there is enough content to explore if you behave non-Ranger like.

 

[Roguey]

If you are vilified by Powder Gangers by the time you reach NCRCF the area becomes practically cut out, you can only walk around it in uniform without doing any quests. Btw one of those quests is helping NCR take over NCRCF which you can't do even if you pickpocket attack plans only because the group you want to destroy hates you. Some people would call this contrived.

I wouldn't, because you can still wipe 'em all out, and I in fact did this. Same result, slightly different method.