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Max Payne 1 & 2 Discussion

Roguey

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:necro:

I finished both these things recently. The first was all right when it focused on core gameplay, but much less so when it included non-core elements (awful platform maze dream sequences, trial-and-error burning building escape, typical Euro nonsense). The same-engine sequel turned out to be the classic I was expecting, improving practically everything gameplay-related (even the burning building sequences), and it's now my favorite third person-shooter. Too bad Rockstar turned the next entry into a cinematic mole-popper I have zero interest in playing, they really had something here.

I liked the nude scene, too.

This sexist pig-man right here.
 

Menckenstein

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:necro:

I finished both these things recently. The first was all right when it focused on core gameplay, but much less so when it included non-core elements (awful platform maze dream sequences, trial-and-error burning building escape, typical Euro nonsense). The same-engine sequel turned out to be the classic I was expecting, improving practically everything gameplay-related (even the burning building sequences), and it's now my favorite third person-shooter. Too bad Rockstar turned the next entry into a cinematic mole-popper I have zero interest in playing, they really had something here.

I liked the nude scene, too.

This sexist pig-man right here.
Max Payne 3 was fun to play but it should've been called something else. Houser boys probably watched City of God and Tropa de Elite and decided to stuff the Mp franchises corpse with those themes.

Max Payne 2 finally added pistol whipping for when you ran out of bullets and there were a ton of cool levels with skirmishes that felt really satisfying, especially in the Ritzy apartment building (not Max's hovel)
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
:necro:

I finished both these things recently. The first was all right when it focused on core gameplay, but much less so when it included non-core elements (awful platform maze dream sequences, trial-and-error burning building escape, typical Euro nonsense). The same-engine sequel turned out to be the classic I was expecting, improving practically everything gameplay-related (even the burning building sequences), and it's now my favorite third person-shooter. Too bad Rockstar turned the next entry into a cinematic mole-popper I have zero interest in playing, they really had something here.

Why the fuck is this in GD?

Anyway, I really disliked the lack of level diversity in MP2. Almost everywhere was a warehouse with crates. Yeah, MP1 had some janky stuff, but the rooftop chase, the Deep Six bunker, Punchinello's mansion and Aesir Corp were cooler places to have a fight than anything in the sequel.

Also, the plot was poorly executed IMO. (Detective Winterson? Who gives a shit?)
 
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Roguey

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2003 was a crazy, loose time, a time when mods weren't extremely particular about moving threads to their proper subforums.

Yeah, I can understand those criticisms but you know how tunnel-vision I am when it comes to gameplay. :P
 
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Too bad Rockstar turned the next entry into a cinematic mole-popper I have zero interest in playing, they really had something here.

Did you play it? I don't recall there being that much of cover shooting, and the game was decent.

Also Irenaeus is going to behead you for talking shit about Huehue.
 

Grunker

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I just finished these in mid 2013 actually. Loved both 1 and 2, but hated that Rockstar had to introduce its shitty GTA-like humor into the 'verse in #2. I'd call 1 a Great Fucking Game (tm) and 2 An Alright Sequal to a Great Fucking Game (tm).

I think I played 3 for half an hour before dropping it.
 

Bleed the Man

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Too bad Rockstar turned the next entry into a cinematic mole-popper I have zero interest in playing, they really had something here.

Did you play it? I don't recall there being that much of cover shooting, and the game was decent.
Not too much cover shooting? The entire level design and encounter design was based around cover, and the slow and "realistic" animations made a very punishable choice to run&gun people.

I hate Max Payne 3 with a fucking passion, It's full of contradictory design philosophies and as a result the gameplay never feels right. Also, the terrible story, dialog and characterization of Max Payne is fucking insulting for me, add to this an amount of cutscenes that even Hideo Kojima would find excesive, and we have a rage inducing piece of shit. God I hate this game...
 

sexbad?

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Too bad Rockstar turned the next entry into a cinematic mole-popper I have zero interest in playing, they really had something here.

Did you play it? I don't recall there being that much of cover shooting, and the game was decent.
Not too much cover shooting? The entire level design and encounter design was based around cover, and the slow and "realistic" animations made a very punishable choice to run&gun people.

I hate Max Payne 3 with a fucking passion, It's full of contradictory design philosophies and as a result the gameplay never feels right. Also, the terrible story, dialog and characterization of Max Payne is fucking insulting for me, add to this an amount of cutscenes that even Hideo Kojima would find excesive, and we have a rage inducing piece of shit. God I hate this game...
Level design was certainly not based around cover, and it was entirely possible to play the game in a run and gun style. The gunplay provided some of the most fun I've had in a shooter, and I found it no more punishing than the first two games.

The story was way better than anything that Sam Lake was able to pull out of his ass. The narration especially was much improved because it wasn't one silly or even contradictory metaphor after the other.

It really is too bad about the cutscenes, since most of them can't be skipped. At least MP1 and MP2 provided that decency. It hurts the replayability of what would otherwise be one of my favorite shooters.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Looking back with the beneift of hindsight, MP1 remains the timeless masterpiece with tight storytelling and iconic scenes, and MP2 as the interesting but deeply flawed Hollywood remake.

MP1's storytelling had problems too, though. In particular, Mona Sax's role in the story was superfluous to the point of bizarreness.

(although I did find it amusing in retrospect how she seemed to be a Sofia-Coppola-in-Godfather-3 homely Italian girl out of her depth in MP1, compared to her portrayal as a hypercompetent ice cold sex bomb in the sequel)
 

Grunker

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Looking back with the beneift of hindsight, MP1 remains the timeless masterpiece with tight storytelling and iconic scenes, and MP2 as the interesting but deeply flawed Hollywood remake.

MP1's storytelling had problems too, though. In particular, Mona Sax's role in the story was superfluous to the point of bizarreness.

You misunderstood Mona Sax then. The entire point of the character was just to taunt the libido and bad conscience of Max. The first MP had plenty of nonsensical story elements and unfinished plotlines. Those are not problems.

(although I did find it amusing in retrospect how she seemed to be a homely Sofia-Coppola-in-Godfather-3 homely Italian girl out of her depth in MP1, compared to her portrayal as an ice cold sex bomb in the sequel)

Fucking Rockstar, mang.
 

Bleed the Man

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Level design was certainly not based around cover, and it was entirely possible to play the game in a run and gun style. The gunplay provided some of the most fun I've had in a shooter, and I found it no more punishing than the first two games.

The story was way better than anything that Sam Lake was able to pull out of his ass. The narration especially was much improved because it wasn't one silly or even contradictory metaphor after the other.

It really is too bad about the cutscenes, since most of them can't be skipped. At least MP1 and MP2 provided that decency. It hurts the replayability of what would otherwise be one of my favorite shooters.
Agree to disagree then. We're at complete opposite points of view, so not much interesting stuff to debate in this case when we have so strong irreconcilable opinions. And it's not like I'm overexagerating or making stuff up things, I replayed this past summer the three games one after the other and ended hating MP3 even more.
I might find value to Max Payne 3 if it was a different franchise, but as a fan of the two Remedy games, being the second one my favourite, I despise it with all my heart
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

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Level design was certainly not based around cover, and it was entirely possible to play the game in a run and gun style. The gunplay provided some of the most fun I've had in a shooter, and I found it no more punishing than the first two games.

The story was way better than anything that Sam Lake was able to pull out of his ass. The narration especially was much improved because it wasn't one silly or even contradictory metaphor after the other.

It really is too bad about the cutscenes, since most of them can't be skipped. At least MP1 and MP2 provided that decency. It hurts the replayability of what would otherwise be one of my favorite shooters.
Agree to disagree then. We're at complete opposite points of view, so not much interesting stuff to debate in this case when we have so strong irreconcilable opinions. And it's not like I'm overexagerating or making stuff up things, I replayed this past summer the three games one after the other and ended hating MP3 even more.
I might find value to Max Payne 3 if it was a different franchise, but as a fan of the two Remedy games, being the second one my favourite, I despise it with all my heart
MP2 is your favorite?
Are you gay?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You misunderstood Mona Sax then. The entire point of the character was just to taunt the libido and bad conscience of Max. The first MP had plenty of nonsensical story elements and unfinished plotlines. Those are not problems.

I think if you're going to make a character that important, she has to be something more than a strange fleeting presence in cutscenes that has no real bearing on the story. Fuck, you even get to find her sister's corpse in the game itself (another underdeveloped plotline, which is a shame because I can sense they were going for something ~thematic~ there) but she herself doesn't appear anywhere. And that's in a mission where she was supposed to have been in the building with you!

And then there's her weird final appearance in that elevator. (I really liked how how they followed up on that in the sequel - talk about making the best of a bad situation)

I wonder if they originally planned to put her in the levels in Max Payne 1 but had to cut her role due to lack of time/budget/etc.
 

ZagorTeNej

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For me, Max Payne 3 will always remain one of the games with the most wasted potential I've ever seen. I really liked gunplay and to date it is the only game I know of that does cover based shooter and run and gun playing styles equally well, you have a choice on how to play.

Shame they took that great combat system and made a fucking movie (where you can't even skip the damn cutscenes even when you try) instead of designing you know, actual levels.
 

Grunker

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You misunderstood Mona Sax then. The entire point of the character was just to taunt the libido and bad conscience of Max. The first MP had plenty of nonsensical story elements and unfinished plotlines. Those are not problems.

I think if you're going to make a character that important, she has to be something more than a strange fleeting presence in cutscenes that has no real bearing on the story. Fuck, you even get to find her sister's corpse in the game itself (another underdeveloped plotline, which is a shame because I can sense they were going for something ~thematic~ there) but she herself doesn't appear anywhere. And that's in a mission where she was supposed to have been in the building with you!

And then there's her weird final appearance in that elevator. (I really liked how how they followed up on that in the sequel - talk about making the best of a bad situation)

I wonder if they wanted originally to put her in the levels in Max Payne 1 but had to cut her role due to lack of time/budget/etc.

I dunno, I just think you wanted her to be more important to the story than what she is: an aside. A reflection of Max.
 

taxalot

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I have to admit that I am always a tiny bit baffled whenever I hear the Max Payne series being praised so much. I have played both 1 and 2 when they first came out, and both were disappointments.

I remember the story and the art style to be quite interesting, but both to be deserving of a game of a greater quality. It is actually pretty much the same problem than I had with Bioshock Infinite : an interesting setting that fails to be a game.
I read praises and a lot of good things about this series but I never found the gunfight to be as interesting compared to FPS of the eras. I do enjoy some popamole third person shooters once in a while (I loved the Uncharted series), but Max Payne absolutely failed to grab me gameplay wise. Either you didn't use the slow motion thing and it was just awkward , either you used it and well : move forward, jump in slow mo, click on slow mo moving enemies. Repeat. It's a corridor shooter if there ever was one, and not even an interesting one at that.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Fuck slow mo, the most fun way to play is with Witcher 2-style rolling. :cool:
 

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