Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries by Piranha Games - now on Steam and GOG

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,872,592
I'll be happy with this if it's at least a somewhat ok, "good for what it is" game.
TrumpDisgusting.png
 

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,466
Location
Shaper Crypt
Headcanon and more headcanon and observations of Vidya mechanics

Yeh, Heavy Gear 2 was the superior simulation, and it tanked hard. But to me it seems that you have barely played the, well, tabletop game: all your points make no sense regarding how tabletop or megamek battles work. Mechas ARE tanks on legs. The only reason they rule the battlefield in Battletech is because the rules are built to help them mantain superiority, as their natural predators like copters and ATGMs are weakened. Airpower, though....

Hand to Hand combat is BT is sluggish, chaotic and lacking finesse. Half of the time is mechas faling and flailing around and the other half is skillful abuse of the turn resolution order and of movement ranges (players good at calculating ranges are a blight on Megamek, ffs).

And it's not even that HG2 had good HtH combat: there's a good reason why Mechwarrior clones have all avoided HtH. It's hard to get it right and to be "simulative" to the BT approach you woud make it as unfun as they go. Hit, welcome, you fall and get mauled. The game is built to be fun AND coherent with the tabletop experience: mainly because Mechwarrior is the last household name for mecha simulations in the West and they gotta get the 40 years old whales.

Your dreams and critiques are mostly, well, correct, but completely useless: we're not talking about a Gundam game with good melee combat or like: it's Battletech.

If you let me a small point, Clantech is clearly superior in BT because it works better in regards to the game's own rules: all the lorelorelore on Omnimech limits does not change the fact that they are flat out better, and Zellbringen was a desperate (and "gamey") attempt to balance the unbalanceable.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Headcanon and more headcanon and observations of Vidya mechanics

Yeh, Heavy Gear 2 was the superior simulation, and it tanked hard. But to me it seems that you have barely played the, well, tabletop game: all your points make no sense regarding how tabletop or megamek battles work. Mechas ARE tanks on legs. The only reason they rule the battlefield in Battletech is because the rules are built to help them mantain superiority, as their natural predators like copters and ATGMs are weakened. Airpower, though....

Hand to Hand combat is BT is sluggish, chaotic and lacking finesse. Half of the time is mechas faling and flailing around and the other half is skillful abuse of the turn resolution order and of movement ranges (players good at calculating ranges are a blight on Megamek, ffs).

And it's not even that HG2 had good HtH combat: there's a good reason why Mechwarrior clones have all avoided HtH. It's hard to get it right and to be "simulative" to the BT approach you woud make it as unfun as they go. Hit, welcome, you fall and get mauled. The game is built to be fun AND coherent with the tabletop experience: mainly because Mechwarrior is the last household name for mecha simulations in the West and they gotta get the 40 years old whales.

Your dreams and critiques are mostly, well, correct, but completely useless: we're not talking about a Gundam game with good melee combat or like: it's Battletech.

If you let me a small point, Clantech is clearly superior in BT because it works better in regards to the game's own rules: all the lorelorelore on Omnimech limits does not change the fact that they are flat out better, and Zellbringen was a desperate (and "gamey") attempt to balance the unbalanceable.
Agreed, and like I said you only get real mileage out of melee when you use utterly broken equipment like Triple Strength Myomer or if someone makes the mistake of allowing unlimited pilot point reallocation you end up with DFA kamikazes. Then again, this is just exploiting the fuck-ups in the mechanics of BattleTech, which IMO does mean gentleman's code means no TSM either since allowing it is only slightly better than pulse lasers with targeting computers. Then again, I'm one of those people who insists that BTech tabletop is to be played solely with official Tech Readout entries and variants.

And yea it's telling that melee combat is rarely even remembered after the initial rules back in the original box, given that Readouts never mention such details like most Clan OmniMechs having no hand actuators. I purposefully didn't call HG2 having good melee combat (I merely appreciate the option and consider the total absence of even a token attempt at melee in MW much worse), because it's about on the same level as the default barely used melee option in any classic FPS before CS popularized shanking as near instant kill. There's a bit of an aversion of this in Armored Core, because targeting is an indirect mechanic in them, but melee itself is built around being difficult to target, but piledrivers and physical blades having THE highest damage in the games at the cost of the fact they are nearly impossible to hit with, and energy blades combining very high damage with infinite ammo (in fact, the only infinite ammo). That's why vidya suggestion was that ideally we'd have something radically different and designed from ground-up. Overall though, the benefit would be just approaching making the game as a game set in the BattleTech universe, not an emulation of the tabletop BattleTech game (see above: Best BattleTech vidya are strategy games because of this).

I definately agree 100% that the fact the MechWarrior games have tried so hard to emulate the tabletop game is what has seriously held them back. The whole pre-MW4 mechlab where mech customization (also it's 'Mech or mech, never mecha for BT, plural is mechs or 'Mechs) is a holdover from mech creation rules, and thus it served only to reduce mechs of same weight into a skin and set of hitboxes. A lot of people were pissed by the hardpoint system, but I think it was a great thing that actually tried to capture the thing the tabletop was also trying represent AND make mechs more unique. While on the subject of game->vidya emulation and shenanigans about ClanTech, one such lingering example is how it wasn't until MW4 that even a token attempt was made at balancing IS tech and ClanTech, even if the effort was largely limited to energy weapons where it was overall fairly succesful in providing more design alternatives for combinations of heat, damage, range, and firing recycle. Probably the easiest solution (outside the obvious salvage progression in campaigns) is either to just not give a fuck (the status quo, in fact), continue the rebalancing to a further extent (and hear the lamentations of ancient neckbeards), or simply merge redundant weapons into a single entry (which most Missiles and Ballistics would fall under, since often the ClanTech version is just direct upgrade in various categories).
 

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,466
Location
Shaper Crypt
We really need a new heavy gear or terra nova game...

How?

:lol::lol::lol:

Dream Pod 9 is barely alive nowadays (their kickstarter campaigns were kinda good, and a friend of mine got several sets, good luck finding players in Italy though!) and the heyday of their media push is like, 30 years ago. Ded and buried. As much as I love the care they put in their settings and rules (I still mantain that Gear Krieg is the most well-written "weird war" TT game I've ever seen, even if 80% of it was written by freelancers). Terra Nova was a failed experiment despite the fact that it's goddamn good, thank FMVs for that.

FIFTEEN YEARS of lack of Mech simulations are maybe a proof that the genre is kinda forgotten. Brigador is in theory a mech game, but not a mech simulation, like the various mecha scrollers. Mechwarrior endures through brand name: and even that is mostly thanks to older fans and whales (MWO had a weirdly similar cult-like status, Star-Citizen like, in the beginning). Ruleset-wise, Battletech is kinda atrocious nowadays, and Megamek is the superior way to play it.

Mecha\Power Armour simulators or even arcade games aren't simply popular: Titanfall is MP, and thus I can't approach it. There was another one, a F2P that I already forgot.... Hawken? Again, the only good one was Living Legend, and it was a fucking fan game.

The demand isn't simply there, bar the Battletech cargo cult status. No one is gonna risk such a thing.

[(also it's 'Mech or mech, never mecha for BT, plural is mechs or 'Mechs)

I'd prefer to call them HERCULANS, but no one would get it :lol:



Wait a sec, maybe this thing works on Win10. On Win7 it didn't

Your points are correct again, but moot. Dammit, it's better than I start looking for emulators and the earlier AC titles at this point :lol:
 

warpig

Incel Resistance Leader
Manlet
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
7,364
Location
lmaoing @ your life
The demand isn't simply there, bar the Battletech cargo cult status. No one is gonna risk such a thing.
Trends come and go, maybe a smaller dev could deliver a mid-budget game in this vein. I don't really care if it's BT or some new setting as long as it has similar gameplay and atmosphere to the old games.

Mission Force Cyberstorm intro is horrible imo. Earthsiege has a similar one but imo way better

dat Terminator feel xD
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Your points are correct again, but moot. Dammit, it's better than I start looking for emulators and the earlier AC titles at this point :lol:
Well, I have no idea if the emu scene has managed to get one working, but the best entries in the series happen to be last gen, those being For Answer and Verdict Day.

Miyazaki's current project at FROM is Armored Core 6 (the series is rather strange in that it's got wayyyyy more games than 6 because just about every numerical entry gets at least one spin-off), so maybe if the Dark Souls guy manages to get that Dark Souls mediahype around it then it might get a PC release too. Given that FROM's thing with each numerical entry has been to make changes to the game's core gameplay (enormous changes in case of 4 and V), maybe they'll do the first open world mecha sim.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
8,987
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
http://www.pcgamer.com/mechwarrior-5/

Piranha Games is working to evoke the unfettered sense of scale and freedom of the first MechWarrior game released in 1989.


MechWarrior 5 is first and foremost a sandbox-esque game where players have the freedom to choose where to go, which houses to fight for, and how to equip their soldiers


With the countless planets of the Inner Sphere to fight on, MechWarrior 5 will use "seeded" levels which will generate terrain dynamically based on a variety of factors.


"Our goal is to create a very in-depth manager experience," Bullock says. "It's sort of like taking—and this might be overdoing it—Football Manager wrapped over top of MechWarrior 1."


Bullock explains that, while no final decision has been made, MechWarrior 5 is looking to focus more on a "variant-based free market system" that guides how mechs are outfitted.


"Not since MechWarrior 1 has a game made you think about all the c-bills [the currency of the BattleTech universe] coming in the door. We don't want it to just be like, I hit my repair-all button and now I don't worry about any economy in this game. The point is that we want someone to really manage that minutiae."



Speaking of economy, Bullock said that MechWarrior 5 will feature a "dynamic" in-game economy that will change based on the timeline and where the player is currently located.







http://www.pcgamer.com/mechwarrior-5-announced/
 
Last edited:

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
I don't believe in PB delivering anything even remotely close to what fans of the series expect it to be.
Brace for MASSIVE disappointment and wasted potential
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,999
Location
Platypus Planet
Your points are correct again, but moot. Dammit, it's better than I start looking for emulators and the earlier AC titles at this point :lol:
Well, I have no idea if the emu scene has managed to get one working, but the best entries in the series happen to be last gen, those being For Answer and Verdict Day.

Miyazaki's current project at FROM is Armored Core 6 (the series is rather strange in that it's got wayyyyy more games than 6 because just about every numerical entry gets at least one spin-off), so maybe if the Dark Souls guy manages to get that Dark Souls mediahype around it then it might get a PC release too. Given that FROM's thing with each numerical entry has been to make changes to the game's core gameplay (enormous changes in case of 4 and V), maybe they'll do the first open world mecha sim.

I thought Verdict Day was pretty awful. Too much wankery with online stuff so the single player suffered heavily for it. AC2 is still my fav.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Your points are correct again, but moot. Dammit, it's better than I start looking for emulators and the earlier AC titles at this point :lol:
Well, I have no idea if the emu scene has managed to get one working, but the best entries in the series happen to be last gen, those being For Answer and Verdict Day.

Miyazaki's current project at FROM is Armored Core 6 (the series is rather strange in that it's got wayyyyy more games than 6 because just about every numerical entry gets at least one spin-off), so maybe if the Dark Souls guy manages to get that Dark Souls mediahype around it then it might get a PC release too. Given that FROM's thing with each numerical entry has been to make changes to the game's core gameplay (enormous changes in case of 4 and V), maybe they'll do the first open world mecha sim.

I thought Verdict Day was pretty awful. Too much wankery with online stuff so the single player suffered heavily for it. AC2 is still my fav.
I'm not that big of a fan of the large online component, but besides that the game is simply bigger and better V which I'm all for. And the gameplay was still as smoking hot as ever.

As for the PS2 era games, eh, I can't really put them side to side to the stuff that followed after Miyazaki got his crack at directing with Armored Core 4 (even if the true great came with For Answer, the second game he directed). They're just unrefined and limited compared to last-gen's AC games.
 

DwarvenFood

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
6,408
Location
Atlantic Accelerator
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Guess I'm semi-interested, despite everything.

I've played MW2: Mercenaries extensively, but to this day I remember where I left off, there was a mission in some snowy landscape involving a nuclear plant, and also some get-away in a puny land-based vehicle. Never managed that one.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
Guess I'm semi-interested, despite everything.

I've played MW2: Mercenaries extensively, but to this day I remember where I left off, there was a mission in some snowy landscape involving a nuclear plant, and also some get-away in a puny land-based vehicle. Never managed that one.

Many years have passed and I don't remember anymore. But I seem to recall that the tiny armoured vehicle escape was the "hard path", i. e. there's an easier, alternative mission. IIRC you got there because you sorely lost a previous battle. If you do good when you first encounter the Clans, maybe they show mercy on you or you find a better escape route, or shit like that. But yes, that mission is crazy nuts, but the good thing about MW2 Mercenaries is that it's (somewhat) non-linear and where you get depends largely on what you've done before.
 

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
If you want to be repeatedly kicked in the balls try Crescent Hawk's Revenge. Report back when you can finish the first level.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,160
Looks like shit. No seriously, this Mechwarrior 5 trailer from 2009 is far better.



Then again all we got out of it in the end is MWO.

:negative:
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,160
Are you saying that new trailer is any different in this regard? It looks like machinima made in MWO. Especially if you consider that by their own estimates game is 2 years away from release, meaning they barely have any work done on it, if any. Knowing them they most likely just released bullshot trailer to gauge interest and have something to woo publishers with. I mean it's not like the exact same thing happened with previous trailer (by their own admission).

Anyway main issue is that Piranha with MWO provided very conclusive and irrefutable proof that they are simply incapable of making good mechwarrior game.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Are you saying that new trailer is any different in this regard? It looks like machinima made in MWO. Especially if you consider that by their own estimates game is 2 years away from release, meaning they barely have any work done on it, if any. Knowing them they most likely just released bullshot trailer to gauge interest and have something to woo publishers with. I mean it's not like the exact same thing happened with previous trailer (by their own admission).
I'd say there's quite a bit of distance with doing something that is mostly done using assets from MWO, then trying to pass a complete animation as being even remotely like a game of any sort. I mean, just the stray missile is prepostrous.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,160
What makes you think this new trailer is anything other than "complete animation"? You think they need at least 2 years on bugfixing and polish? Did they hire Cleve or something?
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
:necro:

Summary of preview from PC Gamer printed edition: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHP...amer_hands_on_with_mechwarrior_5_mercenaries/

Short summary:
  • There will not be a series of linear missions. Instead the player will be in command of a mercenary unit and choose between missions across the Inner Sphere.

  • Around 300 planets in the Inner Sphere will be open for business, "letting you travel between the Great Houses while taking increasingly demanding contracts and building reputation with each faction as you also manage your lances of warriors and supporting technicians."

  • The timeline will progress, with new technologies becoming available and the Clans arriving.

  • You start the game with one weak Mech and work your way up.

  • Mech customization will be very limited (if at all possible). The game will feature more than 60 chassis with 300 to 400 variants.

  • In different parts of the Inner Sphere, different Mechs will be for sale.

  • There will also be different weapon manufacturers.

  • The build played the the PCGamer writer did not include any free market aspects.

  • The damage model has been improved. There are different stages of armor peeling away until the internal structure begins to show.

  • There will be infantry, artillery, land and air vehicles.

  • The maps for the 300 planets will be dynamically generated. Some parameters: density of foliage, terrain patterns, weather, time of day.

  • There won't be any Mech knockdowns.

  • Buildings will be destructible.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
- Nothing wrong with limited customization per se, since unlimited anything-goes customization reduces different mechs into being simply different sets of skins and hitboxes. However, having only precanned variants is a step down from the perfectly serviciable solution to the question in MW4 with hardpoints.

- Different weapon manufacturers better not be cipher for "Defiance Industries Light Rapid Mighty Ultra Autocannon 20 of Penetration".

- Are they talking about a new damage model based on armor being locational, or damage visuals going back to MW3 look?

- No knockdowns is boo. Then again, knockdowns everywhere like in MW3 is also boo.

- Destructible in what sense? Pew pew -> Thingie blows up, or pew pew -> parts of Thingie blow off?


A bigger concern I figure is whether or not the gameplay and simulation model will receive major improvements. As I've often talked about this before, I'm referring to making the game much more skill-intensive than build-determined through improving mobility and increasing mouse->limb->gun variables that one needs to take into account when firing. You don't want to get caught with your pants down with some usual MechWarrior fare when it's known that Miyazaki and FROM have been quietly working on Armored Core 6 for a while now.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom