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Memorable cRPG villain

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by rusty_shackleford, Dec 15, 2021.

  1. samuraigaiden Magister

    samuraigaiden
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    RPG Wokedex
    I feel bad for people who get spoiled about Dagoth Ur before finishing Morrowind. I played it not knowing what was coming and when I entered that last dungeon and that voice started talking to me... words can't describe the awesomeness of that moment. Everything about that last part of the game is just absolutely fantastic
     
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  2. Sigourn Futa Lover

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    While I liked the Master, the idea of being told to fuck off when it came to talking down the villain was so much more satisfying. Especially because of how it's executed, it shows you how witty Frank Horrigan actually is.

    > Can't we just talk this over?

    > We just did. Time for talking is over.
     
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  3. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    For me the end game was somewhat ruined by the very poor level/dungeon design of the final areas.
    But I loved the sense of ambiguity about the whole story line.
     
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  4. Nortar Prophet Patron

    Nortar
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If we're considering not just villains, but antagonists in general, than Majima is definitely one of the most memorable characters.
     
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  5. Sigourn Futa Lover

    Sigourn
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    Yeah, Morrowind's final dungeons are incredibly poor. I feel like all the dungeon work went into Arkngthand. You would have expected that one to be the final dungeon of the game.
    Still, I prefer a disappointingly short and simple final dungeon, over a maddeningly long and tedious final dungeon.
     
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  6. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'd argue that this is not so important as putting up a good fight when the occasion calls for it. After all, if a protagonist's primary method is good old fashioned melee, making the villain a mage immune to melee is cheap rather than threatening. If the villain is able to match the protagonist in his chosen method of problem elimination, that's better.

    Yeah, or show capable of personal traits and qualities worthy of admiration.

    Guy ain't an antagonist just because you fight him most of the time.
     
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  7. Eisen Learned

    Eisen
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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    I was alluding to someone like Gaunter O'Dimm who completely outmatches Geralt.

    Show Spoiler
    Geralt never bests O'Dimm in combat, he beats him in a battle of wits.
     
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  9. Faarbaute Arbiter

    Faarbaute
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    A pattern I've noticed is that while the main antagonist usually is quite forgettable, their lieutenants or unrelated minor antagonists, are often quite memorable.

    An example would be someone like Loghain from Dragon Age Origins. Although he is not the main antagonist, you personally experience his betrayal and you personally witness the fallout of his actions, both immediate and longterm.

    Their motivations are usually more human and relatable, even if they are a bad guy. You also get to interact with them, through out the course of the game. Meanwhile, the main antagonist is often more like a force of nature.

    This is also why Kreia works as an antagonist IMO.
     
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  10. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Show Spoiler
    Yeah uh, if we were splitting hairs as I am now, Geralt ideally beats each monster at their weakness. Just so happens that silver works for most.
    Of course wanting to have villains who can go toe to toe against the hero is very likely down to personal taste.
     
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  11. Nortar Prophet Patron

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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'd agree that he is not as simple, but how would you describe his role in Y1?
     
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  12. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Show Spoiler
    An Ork's best friend.
     
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  13. Anonymous Wife Scholar Arcane

    Anonymous Wife Scholar
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  14. KeighnMcDeath RPG Codex Boomer

    KeighnMcDeath
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    Well pidgeons are pretty terrifying en masse. Not sure how many games have sky pests crapping terror upon the populace. Their cars, their statues, oh their "beautiful faces and hair. COWER IN FEAR & TERROR!
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG] [/spoilers]
     
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  15. Faarbaute Arbiter

    Faarbaute
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    I'm not sure it counts but I like how in Divinity 2: Ego Draconis, your relation to atleast one of the antagonists is quite personal indeed. (don't read the spoiler If you haven't allready played it, and ever intend to)

    Show Spoiler
    The voice that guides you along, acting as a narrator and a tool for exposition, turns out to be the main bad guys squeeze and a villain in her own right, who has been manipulating you to do her dirty work all along. That shit blew my mind and was super memorable.
     
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  16. Blutwurstritter Learned

    Blutwurstritter
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    You don't murder him because of some man child's temper tantrum. He deserves death for his incompetence, the worst crime of all.
     
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  17. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik Wumao

    Hóngwèibīng
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    Incompetence implies faulty reasoning. His reasoning was sound given what he knew. If you want to blame anyone, blame the Wardens for underselling themselves by keeping things secret even from Cailan (and implicitly Loghain) just because the king was an incompetent buffoon who took fairy tales for granted. As far as the blame game goes, Cailan > Wardens > Loghain.

    And speaking of incompetence, it'd be quite incompetent of the player character to sacrifice such a prospective asset for the GWs purely out of spite.
     
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  18. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
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    NOOOOOOO! NOT MY TRAITORINOOOOOOO! If you have only one bullet left - shoot traitor. Fuck this logan fag.
     
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  19. Blutwurstritter Learned

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    His reasoning is of little importance. The failure at achieving his goals is what matters and playing blame games does not change the results. He called the shots and his shots misfired, that's on him. His failure at judging/acquiring information is no excuse. Lets take a look at his other great efforts. He tries to take out a political enemy by poisoning and fails. He tries to assassinate you and fails. He tries to unify Ferelden under him but causes a civil war and he is unable to stop the dark spawn threat thanks to that. The arguments for calling him competent are more than thin when he fails for the largest part at the tasks that he sets out to do. His value as asset is also low since you have to swap him, which leaves you pretty much as well of as before. Leaving the facts aside that he wanted to assassinate you and has proven himself to be a traitor at the very beginning. Not exactly the person that I would want to have my back.
     
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  20. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik Wumao

    Hóngwèibīng
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    Then we're not talking about competence. He made the right choice at Ostagar with the information he had available while Cailan did not. The fact that the rational decision which Loghain had taken was not - with hindsight - a good decision doesn't speak of the man's incompetence, but simply of bad luck given that his decision was intellectually sound in the circumstances in which it was taken. The good outcome that would have ensured were he to have sided with Cailan would've instead made him a lucky, yet incompetent strategist since such a choice would've been rooted either in blind obedience to an incompetent king (which would've made him a traitor to Ferelden to which his foremost loyalty lies) or to the same sort of overvaluing of the Grey Wardens that Cailan did. And he could not have known more about the Grey Wardens since Cailan gave them a pass simply because he was vainglorious, not taking the Darkspawn threat seriously and caring more about the legend of the Wardens rather than their actual capabilities. You can't blame a man for not having more information when gathering that information wasn't his job (nor was it possible to gather it when his superior cockblocked his efforts to further scrutinize the Wardens).

    All of them due to the meddling of the player character. And the player character is pretty much a Mary Sue, something that we as gamers tend to overlook since it makes for a good hero's journey type of story despite the obscene amount of luck that the PC has throughout it in being the right man at the right place & time to fuck up Loghain's plans (among other things). Had the Warden been just another story NPC, he would've been either long dead or just faded into obscurity after Ostagar.

    An experienced champion is objectively the better choice over an unexperienced (and undisciplined) templar. And since the PC proved his worth over him, that makes Loghain the most loyal companion given that he now acknowledges that the fate of Ferelden depends on your continued success as leader of the Grey Wardens.
     
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  21. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    It wasn't Loghain's place to question his king, the decision was made, he was to follow.
    He was guilty not only of insubordination but regicide. His punishment was execution.
     
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  22. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik Wumao

    Hóngwèibīng
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    Which is a fair stance to take if you put loyalty to the monarch above the wellbeing of the country. Loghain did not.
     
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  23. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    L'État, c'est moi
    The people rose in rebellion to Loghain without even knowing the truth merely because he claimed regency.
     
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  24. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik Wumao

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    Some nobles rose in rebellion.* And they would've been irrelevant were it not for the PC (see also how it is the PC's swaying of even more nobles to his side that decides the fate of the Landsmeet, not to mention that even the Landsmeet itself is a consequence of the PC's saving of Eamon).
     
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  25. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    I'm quite sure those nobles had many people fighting for them.
    Loghain also sided with the Amaranthine, clear-cut traitors who attacked Cousland under false pretenses. And again, if he actually loved Ferelden so much he would have stepped aside rather than start a bloody civil war that would ensure there would be no unity and weaken Ferelden as a whole.

    He was an opportunistic usurper.
     
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