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Memorable cRPG villain

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Sebastian LaCroix
You're gonna have to explain this one to me.

Only Kreia has more interactions with you throughout the game than he does.
Means squat diddly if the interactions are just LaCry being a stuffy Englishman with a french background. Kreia at least tried to confuse you.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I think a lot more villains would be more memorable if more games actually had good villains. We've touched a lot on how good villains should be multifaceted with good parts as well as bad which makes their motivations intriguing and the player's relationship with them all the more nuanced and memorable. I'd argue that villains who are pure evil can work just as well though, they just need to be executed in the right way.

I've recently been rereading the ASoIAF series, and there are countless memorable villains in the story. The villains of the story actually do villainous shit that makes your skin crawl and makes you feel anger and disgust. And the key to evoking this kind of feeling in the player is by making it personal. It doesn't matter how many villainous things a villain commits if none of it actually hits the mark in a way that makes me give a fuck.

Now yes, this can be done by killing off companions to the player character or by killing characters we've come to form relationships throughout the game, but there are other ways to do this too. I'll cite an excerpt from one of the books in the ASoIAF series.

The POV character is listening to one of the man-at-arms that had captured her and killed one of her friends. He's telling a funny story to his brothers in arms about a night that he spent with his fellow soldiers and his lord at some Ale house on the way back to their keep. The brewer and his daughter are serving the men, while the wagon gets repaired.
“Meanwhile, this daughter of his has been fetching and pouring, a fat little thing,
eighteen or so—”

“Thirteen, more like,” Raff the Sweetling drawled.

“Well, be that as it may, she’s not much to look at, but Eggon’s been drinking and gets to
touching her, and might be I did a little touching meself, and Raff’s telling young Stilwood
that he ought t’ drag the girl upstairs and make hisself a man, giving the lad courage as it
were. Finally Joss reaches up under her skirt, and she shrieks and drops her flagon and goes
running off to the kitchen. Well, it would have ended right there, only what does the old fool
do but he goes to Ser and asks him to make us leave the girl alone, him being an anointed
knight and all such.”

“Ser Gregor, he wasn’t paying no mind to none of our fun, but now he looks, you know how he does, and he commands that the girl be brought before him. Now the old man has to drag her out of the kitchen, and no one to blame but hisself. Ser looks her over and says, ‘So this is the whore you’re so concerned for’ and this besotted old fool says, ‘My Layna’s no whore, ser’ right to Gregor’s face. Ser, he never blinks, just says, ‘She is now’ tosses the old man another silver, rips the dress off the wench, and takes her right there on the table in front of her da, her flopping and wiggling like a rabbit and making these noises. The look on the old man’s face, I laughed so hard ale was coming out me nose. Then this boy hears the noise, the son I figure, and comes rushing up from the cellar, so Raff has to stick a dirk in his belly. By then Ser’s done, so he goes back to his drinking and we all have a turn. Tobbot, you know how he is, he flops her over and goes in the back way. The girl was done fighting by the time I had her, maybe she’d decided she liked it after all, though to tell the truth I wouldn’t have minded a little wiggling. And now here’s the best bit . . . when it’s all done, Ser tells the old man that he wants his change. The girl wasn’t worth a silver, he says . . . and damned if that old man didn’t fetch a fistful of coppers, beg m’lord’s pardon, and thank him for the custom!”

The men all roared, none louder than Chiswyck himself, who laughed so hard at his own story that snot dribbled from his nose down into his scraggy grey beard.
This little excerpt right here does so many things right when it comes to creating a villain, and because we learn about this story like we're one of his fellow soldiers, it has the effect of making things personal to an extent. It's almost like we're sat beside him, drinking some ale and listening to this story, and this is what makes him such a memorable character and villain. It's also well and truly fucked up. It's a damn shame more games don't explore more of the evil that the human mind is truly capable of imagining when it comes to establishing villains.

Instead of hearing how the evil villain killed this person or stole that or plans to commit a genocide, why don't we get treated to stories like this when we're asking around in villages about the man we're hunting down, or when we're asking about rumors in the inn? Some games have great writing, but I really think there is so much more room to grow when it comes to things like this.
 

Lord_Potato

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True. Sepiroth became a true villain only after he murdered Aeris. Before that he was just an asshole, mumbling some vague shit noone cared about and being a dick to Cloud.
 
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I think a lot more villains would be more memorable if more games actually had good villains. We've touched a lot on how good villains should be multifaceted with good parts as well as bad which makes their motivations intriguing and the player's relationship with them all the more nuanced and memorable. I'd argue that villains who are pure evil can work just as well though, they just need to be executed in the right way.

I've recently been rereading the ASoIAF series, and there are countless memorable villains in the story. The villains of the story actually do villainous shit that makes your skin crawl and makes you feel anger and disgust. And the key to evoking this kind of feeling in the player is by making it personal. It doesn't matter how many villainous things a villain commits if none of it actually hits the mark in a way that makes me give a fuck.

Now yes, this can be done by killing off companions to the player character or by killing characters we've come to form relationships throughout the game, but there are other ways to do this too. I'll cite an excerpt from one of the books in the ASoIAF series.

The POV character is listening to one of the man-at-arms that had captured her and killed one of her friends. He's telling a funny story to his brothers in arms about a night that he spent with his fellow soldiers and his lord at some Ale house on the way back to their keep. The brewer and his daughter are serving the men, while the wagon gets repaired.
“Meanwhile, this daughter of his has been fetching and pouring, a fat little thing,
eighteen or so—”

“Thirteen, more like,” Raff the Sweetling drawled.

“Well, be that as it may, she’s not much to look at, but Eggon’s been drinking and gets to
touching her, and might be I did a little touching meself, and Raff’s telling young Stilwood
that he ought t’ drag the girl upstairs and make hisself a man, giving the lad courage as it
were. Finally Joss reaches up under her skirt, and she shrieks and drops her flagon and goes
running off to the kitchen. Well, it would have ended right there, only what does the old fool
do but he goes to Ser and asks him to make us leave the girl alone, him being an anointed
knight and all such.”

“Ser Gregor, he wasn’t paying no mind to none of our fun, but now he looks, you know how he does, and he commands that the girl be brought before him. Now the old man has to drag her out of the kitchen, and no one to blame but hisself. Ser looks her over and says, ‘So this is the whore you’re so concerned for’ and this besotted old fool says, ‘My Layna’s no whore, ser’ right to Gregor’s face. Ser, he never blinks, just says, ‘She is now’ tosses the old man another silver, rips the dress off the wench, and takes her right there on the table in front of her da, her flopping and wiggling like a rabbit and making these noises. The look on the old man’s face, I laughed so hard ale was coming out me nose. Then this boy hears the noise, the son I figure, and comes rushing up from the cellar, so Raff has to stick a dirk in his belly. By then Ser’s done, so he goes back to his drinking and we all have a turn. Tobbot, you know how he is, he flops her over and goes in the back way. The girl was done fighting by the time I had her, maybe she’d decided she liked it after all, though to tell the truth I wouldn’t have minded a little wiggling. And now here’s the best bit . . . when it’s all done, Ser tells the old man that he wants his change. The girl wasn’t worth a silver, he says . . . and damned if that old man didn’t fetch a fistful of coppers, beg m’lord’s pardon, and thank him for the custom!”

The men all roared, none louder than Chiswyck himself, who laughed so hard at his own story that snot dribbled from his nose down into his scraggy grey beard.
This little excerpt right here does so many things right when it comes to creating a villain, and because we learn about this story like we're one of his fellow soldiers, it has the effect of making things personal to an extent. It's almost like we're sat beside him, drinking some ale and listening to this story, and this is what makes him such a memorable character and villain. It's also well and truly fucked up. It's a damn shame more games don't explore more of the evil that the human mind is truly capable of imagining when it comes to establishing villains.

Instead of hearing how the evil villain killed this person or stole that or plans to commit a genocide, why don't we get treated to stories like this when we're asking around in villages about the man we're hunting down, or when we're asking about rumors in the inn? Some games have great writing, but I really think there is so much more room to grow when it comes to things like this.
No! It is disgust anon! It is! No! I do hate rapist nonsense anon! I do! No!
 

PapaPetro

Guest
Irenicus for me.
Something about wanting Godhood seems rather based.
Can't seem to judge the guy...
 
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Messages
227
The gnomes from arcanum. Disgusting things.

Now that you mention, they remind me of a certain tribe. Hmmm, probably just a coincidence.

Anyway, here is my list, in no particular order, though I am sure most/all have been mentioned ->

Kerghan
Irenicus - VA really upped the villain factor. Rare for me as I dislike most VA.
Dagoth Ur
Loghain
The Master
Myrkul/Akachi/PC - evil choices - devour everyone. Not sure if mentioned, but becoming the villain is a different twist. MotB is one of my top 15 favorite RPGs, in spite of the engine/camera.

There should be a thread for most forgettable villains, I'd start it but can't seem to remember...
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
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Codex 2014
Joseph Manderley from Deus Ex was always a great villain, to me. He is emblematic of institutionalized, bureaucratic rot. Plus, he's just a fucking weasel. Nearly every other serious person in the game -- you, Paul, Gunther, Flatlander Woman, Simons -- could kill him easily, but his mastery of the Deep State (yes, for real, he is legit the Deep State!) keeps him alive unless you kill him. Otherwise, he gets killed anyway and his murder is blamed on you.

But he epitomizes the technocracy, the highly-credentialed but completely evil suit who, entrenched in the hierarchy, has advanced solely through political acumen, guile, and sleaziness.
 

Lorebrok

Educated
Joined
Dec 17, 2021
Messages
36
What is the first character that comes into your mind upon reading the phrase "memorable cRPG villain"?

The first thing coming to my mind and without reading the thread to not alter my reply: Jon Irenicus and the master. But they both are carried a lot hard by the voice acting, especially Irenicus. The master is just bizarre and fits so perfectly its a nice climax of the fallout game.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
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Sep 4, 2015
Messages
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See, combatfag frens - we won. Decades of shitty game stories, billions of retarded choices and consequences - and all storyfags can name is 2-3 same slightly less shitty characters. Storyfaggotry - most useless thing in rpg games.
 
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
See, combatfag frens - we won. Decades of shitty game stories, billions of retarded choices and consequences - and all storyfags can name is 2-3 same slightly less shitty characters. Storyfaggotry - most useless thing in rpg games.
the epitome of combatfag games in 2021 is a game full of trannies and shitgolems
if you consider this winning, then by all means...
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,226
See, combatfag frens - we won. Decades of shitty game stories, billions of retarded choices and consequences - and all storyfags can name is 2-3 same slightly less shitty characters. Storyfaggotry - most useless thing in rpg games.
the epitome of combatfag games in 2021 is a game full of trannies and shitgolems
if you consider this winning, then by all means...
You mean... storyfag part of great combatfag game is... shit? But that's exactly what i said - shitty stories ruin otherwise great games.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Frostfell
IMO a satisfying fight is a bit more important in a villain than his story. For eg, Sodalis(NWN1 HotU) is way more memorable than his master Vix'thra, because Sodalis fight is way more interesting and clever way. He uses high level spells like stop time against the player and has a lot of interesting traps placed on his place. The dracolich in other hands is very predictable and destroying his phylactery is not hard.

This is also why nobody is mentioning the final boss of Risen 1(trash). Good story behind and shit battle.
 
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Peachcurl

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IMO a satisfying fight is a bit more important in a villain than his story. For eg, Sodalis(NWN1 HotU) is way more memorable than his master Vix'thra, because Sodalis fight is way more interesting and clever way.

I agree to the observation about those two, but not with the conclusion/generalization.

Rather, I'd say that neither of those two has a particularly interesting story, which means that the respective fights automatically seem more relevant. Doesn't generalize to cases where a villains are actually well presented.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
See, combatfag frens - we won. Decades of shitty game stories, billions of retarded choices and consequences - and all storyfags can name is 2-3 same slightly less shitty characters. Storyfaggotry - most useless thing in rpg games.
the epitome of combatfag games in 2021 is a game full of trannies and shitgolems
satt.png
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
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See, combatfag frens - we won. Decades of shitty game stories, billions of retarded choices and consequences - and all storyfags can name is 2-3 same slightly less shitty characters. Storyfaggotry - most useless thing in rpg games.

You've got a strange definition of victory, man. The fact is storyfag games occupy the top of the RPG Codex top 100 and the previous top 70 ranks. And soon they will also win the top of the pre-Diablo list (Betrayal at Krondor, Dark Sun, perhaps one of the Quest for Glory games). It's a complete rout of the combatfag horde and a flawless victory for the glorious Storyfag Legion.
 

octavius

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The fact is storyfag games occupy the top of the RPG Codex top 100 and the previous top 70 ranks. And soon they will also win the top of the pre-Diablo list (Betrayal at Krondor, Dark Sun, perhaps one of the Quest for Glory games). It's a complete rout of the combatfag horde and a flawless victory for the glorious Storyfag Legion.

Which proves that the RPG Codex does scale to your level after all.
 
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I couldn't appreciate Loghain because from the literal moment you meet him 2 minutes into the game, its obvious he's the villain who wants to sieze the throne, but you're somehow not yet supposed to have it figured out. At least when Sarevok shows up and kills your step dad, you have no idea who he is or what his motivations are. Loghain was just transparent in the most boring way. The trail outcome improves that somewhat, but it's too late for me to care.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
I couldn't appreciate Loghain because from the literal moment you meet him 2 minutes into the game, its obvious he's the villain who wants to sieze the throne, but you're somehow not yet supposed to have it figured out. At least when Sarevok shows up and kills your step dad, you have no idea who he is or what his motivations are. Loghain was just transparent in the most boring way. The trail outcome improves that somewhat, but it's too late for me to care.
Loghain seems like he was written to be an evil cartoon villain then at the last minute they decided to try to shoehorn him into an antihero/sympathetic villain role and it completely falls flat on its face if you actually look at what he does and his motives.
 

Decado

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I couldn't appreciate Loghain because from the literal moment you meet him 2 minutes into the game, its obvious he's the villain who wants to sieze the throne, but you're somehow not yet supposed to have it figured out. At least when Sarevok shows up and kills your step dad, you have no idea who he is or what his motivations are. Loghain was just transparent in the most boring way. The trail outcome improves that somewhat, but it's too late for me to care.
Loghain seems like he was written to be an evil cartoon villain then at the last minute they decided to try to shoehorn him into an antihero/sympathetic villain role and it completely falls flat on its face if you actually look at what he does and his motives.

Loghain is like everything else written by Bioware after Baldur's Gate II: cringey, pop-culture garbage.
 

Dodo1610

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About Loghain

When you read the books it becomes much clearer that he primarily acted out of self-interest since he allways envied Maric (Cailan's father) and allways thought that he should rule since it was his strategies that won Ferelden's independence.

Worst of all he planned Cailan an alliance with Orlais in which he would become totally irrelevant. It's clear he killed him so he and his daughter could rule.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
About Loghain

When you read the books it becomes much clearer that he primarily acted out of self-interest since he allways envied Maric and allways thought that he should rule since it was his strategies that won Ferelden's independence.

Worst of all he planned Cailan an alliance with Orlais in which he would become totally irrelevant. It's clear he killed him so he and his daughter could rule.
You don't even need the books though.
If he truly cared about what was best for Ferelden, he would have never claimed regency. His daughter's claim to the throne was valid and she was loved by the people.
 
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"My first question is: Are you really Nerevar reborn?"
    • By the grace of gods and fate, I am Nerevar reborn.
      • "That is bitter. The gods and fates are cruel. I served you faithfully once, Lord Nerevar, and you repaid me with death. I hope this time it will be you who pays for your faithlessness."

What did Nerevar do to Dagoth Ur? I thought Nerevar was dead by the time Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal came to blows? What is the exact chronological order of betrayals and backstabbings of that day on the Red Mountain?
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
"My first question is: Are you really Nerevar reborn?"
    • By the grace of gods and fate, I am Nerevar reborn.
      • "That is bitter. The gods and fates are cruel. I served you faithfully once, Lord Nerevar, and you repaid me with death. I hope this time it will be you who pays for your faithlessness."

What did Nerevar do to Dagoth Ur? I thought Nerevar was dead by the time Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal came to blows? What is the exact chronological order of betrayals and backstabbings of that day on the Red Mountain?
It can either be interpreted as him referring to Nerevar as working with the tribunal or perhaps laying the blame at his feet for his death by the tribunal's hands, or him referring to the events as explained in The Five Songs of King Wulfharth where Nerevar struck Dagoth down.

I don't think it's meant to be clear exactly what he's referring to or which(of the many) interpretations is the correct one.
And as to the second question, that applies again, there is no exact known order of events because there's multiple interpretations and retellings.

[edit]
and i think one of the interpretations has him coming to blows with Nerevar upon coming back to retrieve the tools and Dagoth wouldn't hand them over.
With regards to the tribunal killing him, it was Nerevar's orders that he stay and guard the tools therefore implicating Nerevar in his death. In this scenario, Nerevar could already be dead.

Also, it could be that he's just insane. ...Because he is pretty insane.

None of the interpretations(of the battle of red mountain) line up correctly with the information you can actually collect, which is what makes it interesting.
Notably, we can(iirc) ask Vivec similar questions and his telling of the events are incompatible with Dagoth-Ur's.
 
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