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Metroid Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Louis_Cypher, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. Reality Learned

    Reality
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    Super, Prime 1, Prime 2 are all you really need
    avoid Prime 3 cause Wii mote, GBA games are just okay level and not really offensive OR spectatcular.

    I will admit that Samus Returns on the GB is my favorite thematically because you actually exterminate the Metroids - towards the end new ones are even being born and you see the counter go up and fight a couple of 1st stage metroids mixed into an area that started with a bunch of 4th stage metroids. That said it doesn't handle all that well and it's a little fudged with the "progression is locked' until you kill all in an area, then earthquake makes a hole in the floor in some previous area (really 2nd most linear after Fusion only difference is not getting a map) .
     
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  2. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    I wouldn’t say it’s terrible, but it is aggressively average, and it suffers from the same problems as Fusion (linear, unimaginative upgrades, narrative that tells instead of shows), but with the added gimmickry that comes from having the wiimote controls.

    in other news this thread has inspired me to replay the series chronologically (with remakes). I’m about 2/3 of the way through ZM and having a blast, although I must say that the game is quite a bit easier than I remembered and certainly much easier than the NES version. Still very fun though. I think I’m going to go with AM2R for the second installment (the original and 3ds versions of which I don’t find particularly great). I haven’t played the AM2R version, but have heard great things, so im looking forward to that.
     
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  3. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    People talk a lot about this as if it was a bad thing, but I actually really appreciated it. There were a lot of neat little touches to it, and the core mapping of wiimote arm <-> cannon arm, grapple arm <-> nunchuck arm worked great. It was actually kinda close to a 1:1 mapping of in game action to real life controls, all the way down to how you basically couldn't reach the bottom buttons on the wiimote with that hand, so you have to use the other one (just like how Samus clicks stuff on her cannon arm with her free hand). It was basically the one redeeming feature of a game that was otherwise pure decline from Echoes.

    Obviously if you play it on an emulator it's going to feel bad.
     
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  4. Ventidius Savant

    Ventidius
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    Been itching to replay the first two Primes for some time. I guess the upcoming release of Dread makes this as good a time as any to dust off my old GameCube and search for my old discs (no idea of where they could be stored though).
     
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  5. deama Liturgist

    deama
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    I tried playing metroid prime a few times, but just can't get into it, the issue I have with it is purely that it's 3D and I just don't like how they designed it on a 3D layout for some reason.
    Maybe I just don't like 3D metroidvania's? I can't really think of any good 3D ones I've played, I only seem to like the 2D ones, are they easier to make or does symphony of the night + super metroid just give a great template?
     
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  6. Morpheus Kitami Arbiter

    Morpheus Kitami
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    Are there really that many 3D Metroidvanias? Outside of the Prime series I can only think of is Pitfall: The Lost Expeditions and that Sphinx game, both GCN-era. Indie devs haven't really flocked to making 3D ones like they did 2D ones and I remember the genre being rare from big studios.
     
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  7. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    Arkham Asylum arguably qualifies, but yeah, in general there are very few attempts at 3D Metroidvanias. One could make an argument that Prey is also somewhat of one, but that’s pretty sketchy ground.
     
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  8. Beans00 Augur

    Beans00
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    I'm a big fan of metroid aswell. From best to worst;


    Super Metroid
    Zero mission(which is an upgraded NES metroid for GBA, I played it on the gamecube with an adapter)
    Prime 1
    Prime 2 (more annoying backtracking them prime 1)
    NES metroid (dated, takes forever to farm health)
    Fusion (still good but linear)
    Samus returns(GBC game, didn't particularly like this one for a variety of reasons)


    I disliked wii controls so I never played prime 3. I watched my sister play most of it, was better then waving my arms around.
    Never played other M either.

    [​IMG]

    Wish I would have kept the box >.>.
     
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  9. deama Liturgist

    deama
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    That's probably why then, not many 3D ones.
    I swear I played a decent 3D metroidvania though, just can't remember what it was...
     
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  10. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    Journey to the Savage Planet?
    Show Spoiler
     
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  11. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    I haven't played Corruption in at least a decade, so it's entirely possible that I'm misremembering. I agree that the controls for the game actually felt pretty good (the nunchuck controls in particular felt great), even though the tech behind the wiimote was never good enough to eliminate weird glitches; my memory of what I objected to in Corruption is that there is an over-reliance on QTES and other weird "gimmick" controls where it's clear the devs' focus was on showing off the motion-sensor capabilities instead of crafting an enjoyable gaming experience.

    Like I said, I don't think Corruption is terrible, but I do think it's the low-water mark for an otherwise largely terrific series.
     
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  12. spekkio Arcane

    spekkio
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    100% agree. It was so obvious and irritating, that I gave up on the game quickly

    Loved aM2r, it grasps dem feel of a cliassic Metroid perfectly. Tried Samus Returns (3DS one) and uninstalled in disgust shortly after the "dodge + melee" mechanic got introduced.
     
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  13. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    The GBA Metroids were fine and fun, but I think they lost something fundamental from Super Metroid. Something amazing about Super Metroid is that it has a narrative without any dialogue and almost without any cutscenes. And the environmental storytelling isn't stuff like graffiti taking the place of expository dialogue. It's just that the gameplay, graphics, level design, and a tiny seasoning of cutscenes (all of which incorporate symbols/structures from larger scifi genre) manage to give what I would call like the "key frames" of a compelling narrative.* The player's mind then tweens the rest. Likewise, the world has all these paths through it and secrets, but the player isn't being like told he should sequence break or do a completionist run. In some respects the true paths feel no less serendipitous than the shortcuts, and the need to gather powerups is fueled less by gotta-catch-em-all and more by the inherent challenge.

    The GBA Metroids are more like guided recreations of the Super Metroid experience. Maybe there was only one good story that could just be totally implied from the setting, art, etc., so they couldn't just do another game like the first. But to me, the addition of the dialogues, increased scripted sequences, and the level design -- all of it feels like, "Remember that time in Super Metroid when X happened and it felt like it was emergent? Now it's scripted." Super Metroid repeated/refined stuff from Metroid (like the biomes, the overall gameplay, etc.), but Super Metroid didn't feel like it was following a formula. The GBA ones do. Hard to describe. Like there are lots of rails, some hidden, but that in some respect it's still on rails.

    The same is true of SOTN -> GBA sequels, though I think SOTN is quite overrated compared to Super Metroid. At some point, both franchises just had a series of tropes and boxes to check. The core gameplay is fun, and the formulaic approach in a certain sense distills the fun factor, but lost a lot of the sense of wonder.

    I've played some of acclaimed indie "Metroidvanias." They're very good, but they also feel very much like they are operating within a set of genre conventions, rather than just experimenting into an awesome form of action-exploration-adventure as with Super Metroid. To be honest, Cave Story might've been the only one that still felt super fresh. Hollow Knight and Ori are very well made, beautiful games and I had a ton of fun with them, but it just feels like I'm always talking to someone, grinding some resource, getting some familiar powerup or what have you. I'm not sure it's possible any longer to recreate the old charm. But I'd like to see a modern Metroidvania that didn't use dialogues, NPCs, shops, etc.

    (* The mirror antagonist of Prince of Persia is a rare example that comes to mind from another game of that approximate era.)
     
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  14. ropulos Arcane Patron

    ropulos
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    I've never considered it a metroidvania. If you do, the definition of the 'metroidvania' genre gets a lot more muddled. Is Quackshot for the Genesis/MD a metroidvania? Any game with backtracking? Metal Gear Solid?
     
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  15. Grauken King of October Patron

    Grauken
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    Cave Story is a metroidvania the same way The Binding of Isaac is a roguelike
     
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  16. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    The concept of "Metroidvania" has always struck me as somewhat dubious, since Metroid/Metroid 2/Super Metroid and SOTN were incredibly different games. To say that they are all in one big genre makes the genre's definitions fuzzy. Also, I played Cave Story on release so (1) my memory is fuzzy and (2) there weren't as many PC Metroidvanias back then, so the term was probably used loosely. I seem to recall it being called a Metroidvania at the time. And both Wikipedia and Steam call it a Metroidvania today.

    I guess Cave Story's zones were pretty linear and its tempo was much faster than a typical Metroidvania. But it had features that I equate with Metroidvanias, like an interconnected but segmented world that you can backtrack through, power-ups that introduce new movement and attack options, vertical as well as horizontal movement, grinding enemies for consumables/health. (Maybe I'm misremembering, though.)

    To me, Cave Story felt more like Super Metroid than SOTN did, but that's probably idiosyncratic.

    Wikipedia says yes!

    I think it is harder to apply genre labels retrospectively to games made before a genre solidified. To some extent, I'm not sure Super Metroid itself is a "Metroidvania." Nowadays it's conventional for a "Metroidvania" to have currency, shopping, inventory management, stat scores, NPC dialogues, and an emphasis on melee attacks. Super Metroid had none of those.
     
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  17. Grauken King of October Patron

    Grauken
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    Wikipedia is notoriously bad at using the right label for subgenres. Cave story has next to zero backtracking, you're always limited to a small slice of the worldmap. It's just a normal 2d action-adventure
     
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  18. Grauken King of October Patron

    Grauken
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    Not really true, the genre is wide-ranging with games that cover the whole spectrum from Super Metroid to SotN and weird new experiments
     
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  19. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    So what would you say are the unifying features? Action gameplay, backtracking, power-ups, and segmented, interconnected map?
     
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  20. Morpheus Kitami Arbiter

    Morpheus Kitami
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    You could have just ended the sentence here.
    Personally, I find a Metroidvania is any platformer with power-ups that allow you to access multiple new chunks of the map. It doesn't have to have combat, but the new areas a power-up open up can't just be one area a while back. I.E., a linear platformer, you just go back on itself several times. The Castlevania method of adding RPG elements is just icing on the cake.
     
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  21. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

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    Nostalgia boner because it was my first: Metroid II for the OG Game Boy.

    Super Metroid > Fusion > Zero Mission >>>>>>>>> That shitty one that turned Samus into a depressed simp.

    I honestly think Fusion is just about equal to SM depending on what you want. For difficulty, Fusion wins out but for atmosphere/environment, SM is top dog.

    Never played the Prime games or anything after 2010.
     
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  22. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
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    I mean gramatically it is kind of dumb, or lazy, and it doesn't make sense mechanically. Super Metroid is Metroid. It is the thing itself, not the thing that was another thing that then emulated the first thing. And I also say yes, all those things are the convention , nowadays and always. Otherwise the presence of -vania in metroidvania makes no sense, since it was a vania game that folded those features, which Metroid didn't have, into the Metroid mold. Is this pedantry? Maybe, but then what authority decided this was a legitimate term or genre anyway? A person can disagree, on logical grounds, and their denial of the term, or their definition, is as valid as its acceptance by or the definition of others.

    And the guy who coined the term is a ponce, so there's that too. I find the creation of new "genres" (they are actually more like styles within a genre) based on a number of games emulating another game a retarded, finicky, and unnecessary atomization anyway. And it's completely arbitrary. Why not Half-Likes? MarioSonics? Skyrimjobs?
     
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  23. ropulos Arcane Patron

    ropulos
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    The true term for the genre is Willyvania.
     
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  24. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
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    Is 'Phendrana Drifts' the greatest "snow area" theme?



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Momock Savant

    Momock
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    There are games with a level design and progression inspired by metroidvanias but without the upgrades to reach new places. You find knowledge to progress instead, like in The Witness or Outer Wilds. Incredible games but with low to no replayability (unless you forget easily).
     
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