Metroidvanias and RPGs - different genres, similar "game feel"

[welly321]

Any recommendations? I just finished Salt and Sacrifice. I thought it was good...maybe not quite as good as Salt and Sanctuary. I've also played many of the popular metroidvanias like Ori and Hollow Knight. Is Bloodstained good? I would of already got it but I cant stand anime.

 

[Abu Antar]

Any recommendations? I just finished Salt and Sacrifice. I thought it was good...maybe not quite as good as Salt and Sanctuary. I've also played many of the popular metroidvanias like Ori and Hollow Knight. Is Bloodstained good? I would of already got it but I cant stand anime.

Bloodstained is a solid game. If you like the genre, it is worth playing.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Any recommendations? I just finished Salt and Sacrifice. I thought it was good...maybe not quite as good as Salt and Sanctuary. I've also played many of the popular metroidvanias like Ori and Hollow Knight. Is Bloodstained good? I would of already got it but I cant stand anime.

Bloodstained is the best of the bunch. The modern bunch I mean. This is coming from a fellow anime hater.

 

[Sigourn]

I loved Hollow Knight precisely for the reasons described in the OP. The feeling of growing stronger, new abilities, exploration, surpassing obstacles. A simple gameplay loop that works well because every aspect of the game described earlier is very strong.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Any recommendations? I just finished Salt and Sacrifice. I thought it was good...maybe not quite as good as Salt and Sanctuary. I've also played many of the popular metroidvanias like Ori and Hollow Knight. Is Bloodstained good? I would of already got it but I cant stand anime.

Relative to Hollow Knight, Bloodstained is much less focused on platforming, while the character-related RPG elements that affect combat are much more pronounced. Personally, I didn't find the aesthetics to be terribly influenced by anime, other than the handful of people in the game; it's actually quite well-designed and definitely worth playing.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Examples of metroidvanias in 3d I can think of is Batman arkhan asylum, and darksiders 1/2, legacy of kain: defiance, and metroidprime trilogy. Well, some are not explicit metroidvanias, or sold as such, but when you play, then you get the metroidvania vibe.

Another good one which has 3d graphics in a 2d layout is Strider (2014)

I've remembered that both psychonauts also fits the metroidvania style. The gameplay revolves in following through different "mind" levels and "real" world hub that you can reach new areas as you go through and get new items and powers. Also, its present in the new tomb raiders.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Well, the idea behind Psychonauts was to basically do an Adventure game, but as a 3D platformer since just straight Adventure games weren't really selling anymore. Since Metroid is just an Action Adventure game, other Action Adventure games are going to have similarities to Metroid. Like the original Resident Evil was made as a successor to Capcom's NES game Sweet Home, Sweet Home was a very Adventure game feeling JRPG, (it was almost like Maniac Mansion JRPG) Resident Evil was also influenced by other Action Adventure games like Alone in the Dark and Alcazar during its development...it's a 3D game that could be said to be like Metroid, but that's just because it's also an Action Adventure game. Albeit Resident Evil is an Action Adventure game whose style stems from traditional Adventure games, where games like Metroid and Zelda steam from Adventure which is playing off Text Adventure games.

 

[Brickfrog]

Valdis Story gives you more character customization than usual in this genre not just with equipment but also with multiple characters and three skill trees for each. Good boss fights, difficulty can vary a lot depending on the efficacy of your build. My first run was by far the hardest because I didn't yet know how to optimize.

Very good game.

 

[PlanHex]

Well, the idea behind Psychonauts was to basically do an Adventure game, but as a 3D platformer since just straight Adventure games weren't really selling anymore. Since Metroid is just an Action Adventure game, other Action Adventure games are going to have similarities to Metroid. Like the original Resident Evil was made as a successor to Capcom's NES game Sweet Home, Sweet Home was a very Adventure game feeling JRPG, (it was almost like Maniac Mansion JRPG) Resident Evil was also influenced by other Action Adventure games like Alone in the Dark and Alcazar during its development...it's a 3D game that could be said to be like Metroid, but that's just because it's also an Action Adventure game. Albeit Resident Evil is an Action Adventure game whose style stems from traditional Adventure games, where games like Metroid and Zelda steam from Adventure which is playing off Text Adventure games.

Do you really think the Action Adventure label is meaningful if it encompasses so many different games that are so wildly different they're usually put in subgenres like zelda-like, survival horror or, y'know, metroidvania?

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Well, the idea behind Psychonauts was to basically do an Adventure game, but as a 3D platformer since just straight Adventure games weren't really selling anymore. Since Metroid is just an Action Adventure game, other Action Adventure games are going to have similarities to Metroid. Like the original Resident Evil was made as a successor to Capcom's NES game Sweet Home, Sweet Home was a very Adventure game feeling JRPG, (it was almost like Maniac Mansion JRPG) Resident Evil was also influenced by other Action Adventure games like Alone in the Dark and Alcazar during its development...it's a 3D game that could be said to be like Metroid, but that's just because it's also an Action Adventure game. Albeit Resident Evil is an Action Adventure game whose style stems from traditional Adventure games, where games like Metroid and Zelda steam from Adventure which is playing off Text Adventure games.

Do you really think the Action Adventure label is meaningful if it encompasses so many different games that are so wildly different they're usually put in subgenres like zelda-like, survival horror or, y'know, metroidvania?

Yes. Here's the thing: Zelda, the classic Resident Evil games, and Metroid aren't wildly different games. The fundamental progression system of those three games is the same. Now you could say the combat systems are different, and the perspectives are different, but the way you progress through the world of those games (while fighting enemies) is the same and that's what Action Adventure games are about. If Capcom had ever done (or ever does do) classic Resident Evil as a side scrolling platformer instead of with cinematic camera angles...it'd be Metroid. Maybe you wouldn't turn into a ball or whatever, but you'd be looking around an environment you can fairly freely move about while looking for items which would unlock new areas of the map all while fighting enemies.

There is no such thing as a Zelda-like. The original The Legend of Zelda itself is just a Action Adventure game in the mold of the first Action Adventure game...which is Adventure. The first Zelda is almost a remake of Adventure. Zelda is like a bigger better version of Adventure. What Zelda does is textbook Action Adventure game stuff. Metroid basically is Zelda but as a platformer; it's the same Action Adventure formula as Zelda and Adventure, but within a platformer instead of a top-down or isometric kind of view. The Action Adventure genre itself is a sub-genre, both it and Adventure game are just two different sub-genre branches of the old Text Adventure games. The Legend of Zelda is pretty much the Atari game Adventure which itself was made with the idea of being a graphical take on Colossal Cave Adventure.

Survival Horror isn't really a genre. It's just a cool sounding marketing tagline created by Capcom to sell Resident Evil 1. It's basically a meaningless genre distinction because everything the Survival Horror game Resident Evil does you could do with a non-horror themed action adventure game too. The big thing Resident Evil was doing as far as Action Adventure games go, is from an aesthetic sense it's more in line with Adventure games. It's so in line with Adventure games (and sold so much better) it actually seems a little weird that LucasArts never had their Adventure game people do something similar since it seems like that department really needed a hit.

Metroidvania, unless people use it wrong, is a helpful sub-genre descriptor because it's telling you this game is like Symphony of the Night. It's telling you the game is an action adventure platformer with RPG elements like Symphony of the Night, and the other similar Castlevania games that came after and followed in its footsteps. And the RPG stuff was a new element being added into that action adventure platformer formula.

 

[Grauken]

Only that most people don't use metroidvania like that

 

[PlanHex]

Yes, I think the crux here is just that nobody outside castlevania fandom uses the label like that.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Only that most people don't use metroidvania like that

Yeah, a lot of people don't know what Metroidvania is, use it wrong, and even use it interchangeably with Action Adventure...which is why you'll see stupid topics in other places asking if Resident Evil and Zelda are actually Metroidvanias. Lots of people use Roguelike wrong too, more and more people just call Hack and Slash games Action RPGs, and lately it seems like Tactics games are also getting called Strategy games and vice versa...people are dumb.

 

[Grauken]

Yeah, a lot of people don't know what Metroidvania is, use it wrong

yeah, almost like there's no authority that decides what words mean and its common usage that defines meaning

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Yeah, a lot of people don't know what Metroidvania is, use it wrong

yeah, almost like there's no authority that decides what words mean and its common usage that defines meaning

I'm not even sure the common usage is this wrong usage, despite it being used wrongly a lot by some people. Although if we want to say this wrong usage is the common usage of Metroidvania, then Metroidvania has become a meaningless genre distinction because it's just being used interchangeably with Action Adventure. Metroidvania being used just to talk about Action Adventure games leads to dummies on Reddit wondering if other Action Adventure games like Resident Evil and Zelda are Metroidvanias, and why don't we call all Action Adventure games Metroidvanias.

 

[Drowed]

There is no such thing as a Zelda-like. The original The Legend of Zelda itself is just a Action Adventure game in the mold of the first Action Adventure game...which is Adventure. The first Zelda is almost a remake of Adventure. Zelda is like a bigger better version of Adventure. What Zelda does is textbook Action Adventure game stuff. Metroid basically is Zelda but as a platformer; it's the same Action Adventure formula as Zelda and Adventure, but within a platformer instead of a top-down or isometric kind of view.

I don't exactly disagree with what you're saying, but I think your definition is incomplete because you're ignoring a fundamental aspect in the progression of these games, which is the introduction of new gameplay tools. Areas are not just barred by the lack of an item/skill, but the item/skill gives the character a specific ability that modifies the way you play the game. This is an important distinction that mechanically separates games like Resident Evil and Metroid. In Resident Evil, you are barred from certain areas of the map until you get certain items or go through certain events. But mechanically, your character at the beginning of the game is the same character at the end of the game, with very subtle differences. The same can't be said for Samus (or even Link) at the end of a game - it's not just a progression of areas, but there's a progression of gameplay.

Samus can create new surfaces to climb on (freezing enemies), basically fly, climb and stick to walls, swing, pull items, hit enemies behind walls, etc. These gameplay changes need to be part of the definition of Metroidvania because they are in the 'Medroid' part of the concept. The game isn't just a clone of Symphony of the Night, that's only 50% of its DNA - without the gradual change in gameplay, the game is a pseudo-Metroidvania. In the same way that games that only have the other half (like Zelda, where you have progression but scarce RPG elements) are also not part of the genre. You need both.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Zelda is zelda like imho. Castlevania + metroid = metroidvania (side scrolling platformer ONLY IMHO).

Then there is rogue-like, rogue-lite (often over used as well).

Some weird first person lara - elf butt game will be Tomb Raider - like.

There might be a doom-like.

The genres are getting so smashed together now for whatever reason decelopers thing might be that edgy ticket. Look at Subverse. Is it a twin action shooter, a tbt game, a romance game, resource management, mini-game extravaganza, or a wannabe sex pic fling? (Probably a simple name for some and that be smelly).

 

[fork]

Still no news about Silksong?
I really would've liked to play that one.

 

[Grauken]

Silksong saves a life, damn the game is good and not even out yet

 

[Jacob]

Back to the topic of recommended metroidvanias: Iji is a free game made by a single dev and it's pretty good.

https://www.remar.se/daniel/iji.php

Has different endings based on how many enemies you kill, and which type of enemies (there's two opposed factions in the game).

Iji is more a cinematic platformer like Flashback/Blackthorne, you don't really backtrack to previous areas. Great game though. Remar's Hero Core is a bonafide shmup Metroidvania, one of the few ones that exist

While what you said is correct, the game overall still have a similar feel to metroidvanias, since it has a strong focus on character progression, and while it doesn't allow backtracking, the levels are pretty large and allow multiple approaches.

false edit: never tried the games you compared Iji to, but a quick search says that it has similar level design and character progression? Maybe it's another subgenre worth giving a look:

The game has seventeen levels within four areas—the mines of Androth, the Karrellian forests/swamps, the Wasteland desert and Shadow keep. The Sega 32X version includes a fifth area, the snowy mountains, which is not found in the other versions of the game. As the game progresses through these areas, Kyle becomes stronger and better armed, but so do the enemies.

 

[Üstad]

I normally don't play platform games but recently started Apotheon. The artstyle and gameplay is great, having a blast while playing it. They found a sweet spot between keeping it simplistic while giving players different way to play the game.

 

[notpl]

Still no news about Silksong?
I really would've liked to play that one.

The devs recently came out and said Hollow Knight made more money than they could ever need so they're in no rush to finish Silksong. They claim to still be working on it, but with zero time impetus.

 

[welly321]

Still no news about Silksong?
I really would've liked to play that one.

The devs recently came out and said Hollow Knight made more money than they could ever need so they're in no rush to finish Silksong. They claim to still be working on it, but with zero time impetus.

Damn, see guys, you ruined our chances at Silksong by buying hollow knight. Refund it immediately.

 

[cvv]

Played F.I.S.T.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the game, it's pretty, polished and has all the metroidvania paraphernalia you can think of.

Problem is there's nothing to excite or surprise you either. I felt like I've played all that a hundred times before even though I'm a genre noob and I've only played 5 metroidvanias in my life. Not good.

It's also not very challenging, only a handful tricky platforming sections and the bosses are quite easy.

I wasn't outright bored but I was so utterly meh-ed by the game I gave up when I came across the first somewhat challenging boss fight, at about 80% of the game. Didn't even finish.

 

[d1r]

9 threads in and no one mentioned Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey? You constantly backtrack to old dungeons because you found new items that allow you to further explore old dungeons and unlock extra bosses and other quests.