Might be just me.. (underrail impressions)

[ArchAngel]

The game is garbage. It's just your typical old school style game that the phebs on RPGcodex like to overrate. It's not even close to the greatness of Fallout 2.

Typical grognard oldfag : "It is not good as Fallout , It is shit!"

After playing Fallout 2 the rest of the experiences in life just lose all their flavor

 

[Roqua]

I spent more hours with Oblivion and Skyrim (the two games i have played the least amount of time, like ever) than i did with Underrail. Yes, that bad, that disappointing. Seventeen years of wait..for..this..pff
Yes, i actually said that, lol

Might be i'm slowly saying goodbye to games/gaming, might be my standards got a bit too high for a market apparently at least satisfied with carrots and wheels, despite all the decades having elapsed. Bogs and mires, the sheep follow still. Don't know, frankly it is irrelevant either way

-- I never liked playing the RNG. Which is why i never liked hate backgammon, casino and luck related games, etc. Not an RPG-centric issue. It is just even more highlighted in a game of this genre, as you are basically accepting the ultimate paradox, that of 'role playing' the consequences of your choices..when said choices are being left to chance? Apparently everyone's fine with that, you can even discern the slightly large percentage of people enjoying this aspect if you read through the lines?

-- I cannot appreciate how RNG gets to determine when, where and how long after i am first capable of utilising it i get to find 'x' or 'y' crafting component. I sure as hell cannot appreciate, or even comprehend how you folks do, the fact that in one playthrough i get a 55 quality component at level 1, whereas in another (same exact build) i can have 30 hours clocked in and never having encountered it at all. At all. Why the fuck am i leveling then? Why the fuck are my skill points limited and i am (rightly) encouraged to have a build in my head? It's just ..luck.. in the end isn't it?

-- I could never tolerate respawns in a single player RPG, and i cannot here either. I am not a 12yr old fucktard needing constant ceasless pew pew to feel like my dick grew longer, i am definitely not an akshun type of play3r (moar killzz! wow!!11) and above all, i am very very not appreciating the fact that with certain builds it can often amount to my needing to hit base and re-re-stock prior to re-re-initiating my trip to wherever it was i originally wanted to go. Fun!
On a different level, i always found respawns detracting from the sense of accomplishment clearing an area up gives you. Sense this time as in literally, forget XP and levels. Am talking 'clearing' something up, your reward being (in the long run) that of having unrestricted/unchallenged access to and fro a location. Nice, logical, believable, satisfactory. Apparently not for most of you.

-- I find it rather moronic that on top of this, said respawns also get to affect the totally broken, moronic sense of the game's economy (sense as in how Styg thinks he's balanced it out) by being an indirectly ..direct.. source of components. It's not even grind exactly, it's worse. You even gotta wait for it. Or encounter it when you don't want or need it.

-- I thought dump stats were bad (not sure if i still do, game depending) and apparently so did Styg; except he went on a 180 and introduced the exact opposite issue. Crafting is an absolute must, except it's passed on as 'optional'. Why bother? And if you want to keep it a must, besides re-considering how your skill allocation should work???, how about re-considering the respawns? Because in this case, we have both the respawns, and the RNG to contest with. See merchants and stock.

-- Tied to the above, but worthy of its own section; How about loot by the way? Useless unless you are a crafter. Don't see anyone minding that either for some reason. Even the dumbest, most superficial excuse one could offer, ie money, is gone out the window. You get so much money, even housing upgrade won't deplete it. Loot is an utter fucking catastrophe. Components, components, components, occasionally a shit gun your local merchant will laugh at, even he has better for sale. RNG notwithstanding.

-- Again tied to Styg's solution of 'anti-dump stats'. Certain feats are an absolute must, 100% best choice for a build, while others are so fucking useless, no one would use them. Ever. Not even for dump stat, as unlike those, they only detract. Again why bother. Lacking dump skills is one thing, adding useless ones is.. quite another.
. This is not the 'try your build and experiment' case, where yes, theoretically you could fail and need start over. This is a case of bloating the feats page after having added the ones he knew we'd all pick up. Except, be it due to haste or inexperience, we get the extras we have.
. This is not Fallout 1/2, where a semi-intelligent mixing of dump stats and feats could pull you through. Min-maxing is encouraged in Underrail.

-- Area transition. Insta-travel from anywhere to any a place is bad, but that doesn't mean we cannot exercice good measure. Select locations/waypoints where some form of fast/map travel was possible would have greatly helped. Not because it would make the game 'easier', but because it would have made it less boring. Simple as that. It's boring to walk through an area you cleared for the upteenth time, whether it has or has not respawns.

-- Certain choices in enemy placement are very, very obviously the result of how should i put it? Think of a milennial edgelord (yes, they do exist) making his game.
. Mobs mobs mobs, even where it makes no sense. Just so there are mobs. Hardzorz. Like rathounds inside vents, or mobs right outside an exit-only passage (ie purposefuly placed so that you stumble upon them). Except they did not make my passage any 'harder'. Just more annoying. There where it makes no sense, harmless or almost harmless just so time is wasted on encounters so safe for me to undertake there is absolutely no chance i'd lose them, ie no stress, ie no point in having them. No gratification..just:
. Trash. Now we get to the reasoning. Trash. There for the clearing, before the 'meat' of the combat. So many 'trash' mobs in this game. Ring a bell? Does to me. So do respawns. Seen both in a different genre. Yes, that one. There at least, mechanics and concepts like these are directed to the likes of Scrooge and Angthoron. Ok. But here? Fuck me Freddy.

You factor all these in? So, so disappointed. From 99/100 fanboy state-ready to honestly, no exaggerating at all, entirely disheartened/annoyed/uninterested in continuing.

Worthy of mention that for someone's first attempt at an RPG, yes, the above may be overly strict a critique. Granted. Except i am only here to do that..that's my job, play and say. Wishes and feelings and commie-derived utopias of theory over outcome i leave to others. Even so, no regrets. He deserves the money. I just can't honestly say i will ever bother with this game, let alone finish it. Despite its positive elements. Shoot me

I have to say, I love posts like this as it shines a light on the summer boys. Most console gamers do not like crpgs. And most crpg lovers will not like console games. They don't mesh well. Lucky for the summer boys there are a lot more games that fit their sensibilities than those of crpg lovers. Unlucky for crpg lovers is the fact we still have to share forums with these cretins since the RPGCodex staff is lollygagging in implementing the CRPG Safe Place forum.

I can pick apart any game, including games I love, like Underrail. There are definitely things that I disliked greatly, or even made me angry, but any crpg lover is going to absolutely love the game despite its shortcomings. Just like with FO, just like with Arcanum, just like with ToEE, etc. The games that the majority of people love are usually monkey games made for monkeys, that have about zero depth and are made to not make the monkeys feel any bad feelings. Streamlined, no significant or meaningful decisions, no opportunity costs, no anything that makes a crpg good.

 

[gestalt11]

Why make such a big deal about respawns? They are not that much of a big deal in the game overall except maybe in Deep Caverns. This seems like nitpicking navel gazing. Is the game perfect? No. In fact I would much more criticisze it for being an over the top walking simulator than for something as ... trite ... as respawns. But anyway even with its various problems its still a more interesting game than most that have been released in the last year.

This whole critique of the OP seems really uninsightful it does not actually highlight even the top 5 real issues the game has.

 

[NotAGolfer]

My only criticism towards Underrail is that it only relies on its great RPG mechanics and not on a story that keeps you interested (there's just no story hook, maybe it's not dramatic enough and too much hearsay or NPC infodumps?) or a game world that's fun in itself to explore.
So after playing this and only this game for about 100 hours I need to play something else because I figured out everything there is to figure out about the builds I chose and get rather bored with the game right now.
So maybe it's too long and grindy for its own good? I dunno, just know that I don't want to explore even one more semi interesting map of Underrail right now, need some distance.
Then again this reminds me of pretty much every game I played in the last years except for strategy games and short linear stuff. I don't finish games any more, they are all too long and I have not nearly enough time. Sometimes I wish I was a kid again

OP is a moron of course.

 

[Eyestabber]

The respawning is restricted to animals/monsters and has a whole ecosystem thing about it. epeli provided an explanation, but I'm having trouble finding his post. It may not be convenient, but it's definitely logical.

two words: deep caverns

Two words: not there yet.

Fuck, that's actually three words. Replying to Aenra idiocy hurted my brian

 

[Goral]

but any crpg lover is going to absolutely love the game despite its shortcomings

I do not love underrail. I like it but there are way too many things wrong with it for me to love it. And from what I gathered Darth Roxor thinks it's even worse (unless "p bad" means better than 7/10 which I would give this game). Saying it's worse than Skyrim or some other Bethesda shit is a heresy though.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The game is garbage. It's just your typical old school style game that the phebs on RPGcodex like to overrate. It's not even close to the greatness of Fallout 2.

Typical grognard oldfag : "It is not good as Fallout so It is shit!"

Two dumbfuck candidates right here.

Old school style is bad now? And wtf is phebs?

And now Fallout is for grognards....

 

[hell bovine]

The respawning is restricted to animals/monsters and has a whole ecosystem thing about it. epeli provided an explanation, but I'm having trouble finding his post. It may not be convenient, but it's definitely logical.

two words: deep caverns

Two words: not there yet.

Fuck, that's actually three words. Replying to Aenra idiocy hurted my brian

Don't worry, considering that the recent patch removed the worst offenders, deep caverns might be less annoying by the time you get there.

 

[Diggfinger]

I spent more hours with Oblivion and Skyrim (the two games i have played the least amount of time, like ever) than i did with Underrail.

Dude, you are comparing an indie game with multi-million budget franchises made by a AAA developer.

Stopped reading here.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

can the mods please move this thread to the underrail sub forum cheers ta

 

[commie]

Hmm...was thinking this game looked cool, but respawns in a Fallout'ish game(as opposed to random encounters) especially in the amounts mentioned is pretty shit. Eh...I'll make up my own mind when it's in a Humble Bundle.

 

[KazikluBey]

Hmm...was thinking this game looked cool, but respawns in a Fallout'ish game(as opposed to random encounters) especially in the amounts mentioned is pretty shit. Eh...I'll make up my own mind when it's in a Humble Bundle.

Eh, respawns are mostly avoidable, and it's only "wildlife" that respawns while I think the majority of foes are human. There aren't many wilderness areas you have a reason to return to after fully exploring anyway, and mostly I used the metro and the like to move between settlements.

 

[Daedalos]

Shit thread with shit posts, and OP is a faggot.

 

[Blowhard]

Of course you spent more time with Oblivion and Skyrim than Underrail. Everyone also spends more time reading the backs of junk food boxes than Proust.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Why make such a big deal about respawns? They are not that much of a big deal in the game overall except maybe in Deep Caverns. This seems like nitpicking navel gazing. Is the game perfect? No. In fact I would much more criticisze it for being an over the top walking simulator than for something as ... trite ... as respawns. But anyway even with its various problems its still a more interesting game than most that have been released in the last year.

This whole critique of the OP seems really uninsightful it does not actually highlight even the top 5 real issues the game has.

I want to expand on this because most of the criticisms in the OP are sound, but they add up to nothing at all.

Before that, I want to point out a glaring exception - is the OP really complaining that one can make poor choices at character creation? Is this a Sawyer alt? You can make so many different kinds of characters that are perfectly capable of beating the game straight through that they'd add up to over 1500 hours playtime without even really getting creative. The character system is totally flexible in that it lets you push any concept far enough to be very strong. The fact that you can also churn out garbage characters is a consequence of mathematical symmetry.

And really, complaints about the possibility of min-maxing and RNG (did you even fucking play Fallout?)? Take your storyfag nonsense back to Skyrim - this is a combat-centric game.

The other complaints in the OP add up to nothing at all - minor annoyances and "wouldn't it be cool"s, and doesn't even touch real problems that actually hinder gameplay in Underrail:

-Writing: The writing is overall good but very sloppy in many places - with typos and grammatical mistakes dotted all over. This has a big negative impact on the atmosphere and world-building imo. The other thing is that the writing in the game starts out weak - so it gives a weak first impression. I'm not sure how to fix this because the ramp-up which happens is intentional, and the beginning serves as a kind of deceptive introduction.

-Crafting: Crafting is a bit too strong right now for two reasons. First is that you can't realistically specialize your gear to fit your character without crafting. Merchants don't stock enough customized gear for this to be even remotely possible without crafting. Second is that component quality is far higher than the equivalent of what merchants have available. The gap should be (and probably will be) closed pretty soon. However, my main complaint with crafting is that there isn't nearly enough gear you can make which cannot be bought. The main draw of crafting should be better gear - but another big factor should be gear which is otherwise inaccessible. A third problem with crafting is that it requires metagame knowledge, literally. The only way for a new player to learn how to craft things (other than through an extensively painful process of gathering every blueprint and buying tons of random components and seeing what fits where) is to look up stuff on a wiki. This really should have been better presented in the game, and it will turn away lots of people from a system that works amazingly well otherwise and allows you to make cool specialized gear.

-Character Creation: Don't get me wrong, character creation is at the peak of things right about this game, but new players are going to struggle with this. There is a pretty large gap of knowledge between someone looking at a character creation screen the first time and someone that's played ~15 hours of the game and been able to see what kinds of items/enemies etc. there are. Basically, to make a really strong character (especially for newer inexperienced players) you have to keep in mind what kind of gear is available. At the beginning of the game, there is a lot of restricted access - many items are simply not available and thus many skills and even character concepts might seem useless or very weak.

These are actually substantial issues with the game that almost every new player will run into which will adversely affect their ability to enjoy the game. I'm pretty sure having to take 1 turn to kill a couple of rathounds every 90 minutes doesn't even fucking register compared to these - and that just demonstrates how utterly shallow the complaints in the OP really are.

 

[kwanzabot]

if you dont like the game thats fine im assuming you live in a free country but why make a thread crying like a faggot about it lol


i caught asgergers and a brain tumor reading the OP

 

[Telengard]

Whyever not, when there's like a billion threads complaining about Fallout 3 and Oblivion in the exact same way? Is Underrail so special that it is deserving of a gang-bang to hush up naysayers? Is it such a weak rpg that it cannot protect itself on its own merits, and thus needs such BSN-style protections so that the public do not speak badly of it in your presence?

If so, then you have chosen your savior...poorly.

 

[Tigranes]

*shrug* game is fun, but majority of the points raised I agree are problems. Respawns are dumb, the economy is basically InfiniteMoney after junkyard, some feats suck. The weird thing is the weight placed on each of them are so disproportionate. How many times do you actually run into respawned enemies? Very rarely (discounting DC, which I haven't been to). RNG, ok, if you hate it you hate it, but most characters in Underrail will be working with pretty high THCs and there aren't really 'saving throws' governing defences, so compared to lower THCs in AOD or the bevy of defensive saves in other games you don't really have to worry very much about it. Not to mention RNG is taken out of pickpocket, lockpick and hacking.

 

[Bubbles]

Not to mention RNG is taken out of pickpocket, lockpick and hacking.

But not out of quest rewards

 

[Dreaad]

It's okay. I just wasn't very interested in the world. You'd think there would be lots of cool shit going down in a semi post apocalyptic, underground society of people all at war with each other and mutants. Sadly however there really isn't much going on and worst of all, maybe just me, but I got absolutely no sense of atmosphere from this game. The music is great, the visuals are fine, there's nothing obviously wrong but I just didn't feel like I was roleplaying. Just doing lots and lots of combat puzzles. That's not a bad thing per se but I'd play full party turn based games if I wanted combat puzzles and nothing else.

Amazing effort for one guy to make it though. Truly impressive stuff all things considered.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Sadly however there really isn't much going on and worst of all, maybe just me, but I got absolutely no sense of atmosphere from this game.

Seemed that way at first to me too, but after the pointless plot-gate (Depot A) when the game opens up and you can start exploring and finding all those little places hidden in the game, I was hooked.
Mileage may vary, I guess.

 

[Gord]

-Character Creation: Don't get me wrong, character creation is at the peak of things right about this game, but new players are going to struggle with this. There is a pretty large gap of knowledge between someone looking at a character creation screen the first time and someone that's played ~15 hours of the game and been able to see what kinds of items/enemies etc. there are.

Absolutely true, but then again it's hard to prevent in any reasonably complex game (and to some degree it's even true for presumably balanced games like, say, PoE, although that keeps closer to typical fantasy cRPG tropes). My first (and so far only) char is definitely build sub-optimally, but he works well enough to keep on playing.
It would be nice to have a more direct feedback during chargen for the points you put into attributes and skills, though.

Respawns are dumb, the economy is basically InfiniteMoney after junkyard, some feats suck. The weird thing is the weight placed on each of them are so disproportionate. How many times do you actually run into respawned enemies?

Depends a lot on how you play, or rather travel around. You won't notice it much if you utilize the quicktravel systems (boat, metro), which many experienced players will probably do right away since they know how to make money fast - or at least know that money will soon stop to be a real issue. Less experienced players will probably keep going by foot longer to save the money and thus experience more respawns.
A balance between respawning critters for crafting ingredients and zero respawns might be to limit respawns to those encounters which are outside of common routes between points of interests - so respawns might happen only in places like side alleys.

Seemed that way at first to me too, but after the pointless plot-gate (Depot A) when the game opens up and you can start exploring and finding all those little places hidden in the game, I was hooked.
Mileage may vary, I guess.

Although after having played, I guess, about 2/3 of the game, a lot of the exploration only results in yet another cave or tunnel with a few enemies and nothing else.
The interesting places are very rare. And the really good ones even more so.
I wouldn't want to see implausible frequencies as encountered in typical Bethesda games, just a bit more than what we currently have.

 

[Jimmious]

The OP is over-dramatizing to draw attention, but his points are relatively on mark.
Especially the crafting part and how you understand after a while that it's a must have and certainly not optional as you would think.
I'm not saying you can't finish the game or something like that, but you'll miss its point. Underrail is about crafting stuff to kill enemies in the coolest way for your build.
It's good at that, but that's what it is in my opinion.

 

[Aenra]

I see more retards came to post one-liners, edgy or shallow replies, even a mere emoticon. How better to symbolise their capacity for deep, productive thinking after all. Codex Hive 101
..now as to those that bothered to showcase a functioning brain by posting proper replies:

Angthoron nothing. I actually, honestly, think you're a great guy. Really. Said fact however does not/need not nullify your enjoying DIII, WoW, etc. It takes a special type of person to enjoy these games, be they as a whole or in case of the latter, in their current 'incarnation'. I feel obliged to point that out, with all it entails. If said person additionally happens to have become an RPGCodex staff member, hardly my fault for the connotations it allows if you get my point. Just the way i'm wired. Again, one does not nullify the other, so yes, i still think you're a great guy. That can happen; the good and the bad.

Eyestabber half your arguments revolve around crafting being good (i know it is..) or around the notion of components being essential for crafting (i know they are..). Am fucking aware of that you idiot; do you have it in you to become fucking aware of how OP crafting is, how shit loot is without crafting taken into consideration, or how a heavy-handed RNG really goes against some core RPG principles? How economy is imbalanced as fuck precisely due to RNG, respawns and crafting being as it is? Or in other words, are you even fucking capable of reading comprehension, or do you just flick the switch and go on your monologue?
As for the rest..i do not propose any whatsoever 'popamole' travel system, and i definitely do not propose what you appear to think i do. Again, read first, think afterwards, reply last. The sum of your arguments portrays a retard rushing to defend a game he does not need to defend, with illogical reasoning and a lack of reading comprehension. My fault for having had a different opinion of you. Up to now. Take a couple of decades, see when you can find yourself capable of distinguishing between opinions, facts, personal preference and outside factors (like them or not).

Roqua If you liked Underrail, good for you. I read what you said, apples and oranges, anyday, anytime. Am neither surprised nor offended someone could like it. Self-evident. Am not discounting its good elements and i'm definitely not here to convert anyone. I saw a lot of praise, a lot of fanboysim and a lot of glossing over issues i ---personally--- found more than annoying, hence my post. That's all. Someone speaking their own mind. Thanks for replying, glad we agree to disagree

Jimmious why am i "over-dramatizing" αδερφέ? I have a strong dislike towards certain elements, for some very specific reasons i take the time and effort to analyse so as not to be misunderstood. Having found them all, the fucking collective, within a game so many consider as 11/10, i made a post describing how i felt (read:differently) about them being present in it.
Is it my tone? Because it's condemning? But that's what i think. I do find respawning, MMO trash mob mechanics and RNG worthy of condemn. Why the fuck do you (like Grimwulf before you) appear incapable of grasping something so simple? My opinion..your opinion. Lacking yours does not make me "over-dramatizing". Yeah?

 

[oneself]

I don't understand your complaint about uselessness of certain crafting components and feats. I hope you realize that the other end of the spectrum is streamlining and determinism. Complete hand holding and lack of exploration and discovery.

If you take out bloat, you also take out exploration. If you take out exploration and consequently - options and choices, you take away complexity and depth.

I am still assuming that you are here because you share a common sentiment that a game with complexity and depth is actually a good thing. If not, then I suppose you enjoy simpler things, and there is a fundamental divide between your view and mine.

I can't say that your view is objectively wrong, but your view is certainly not objectively right.