MLB The SHOW: Best RPG on Console?

[DarKPenguiN]

I know...I know. I will be ducking some incoming flames for this-

Look, I HATE sports. Seriously... Never even liked them as a kid. Never liked Sports games- Ever.

But last Christmas I bought this game for my Dad and Christmas Eve my family played a Tournament- I was blown away. The announcers and the presentation of this game was like nothing I had ever seen- They remembered things you had done in the past and games later would adjust their commentary to fit the scenario.

Long story short- I bought the game and began to play around with game modes and settings. This was the most statistically sound and deep game I had ever (or have ever) seen on a console. It WAS an RPG since you could make a player, negotiate contracts, bu equipment, level him up, etc, etc, etc...

I cannot even begin to express how much of an RPG this game is. This is the deepest RPG ever made on a console and it trumps most CRPGs as well IMHO.

-Anyhow, since then I have tried a plethora of other Sports games and they all suck- They have stats and such, but NOTHING like MLB the Show.

Has anyone played this? Do you agree that this is an RPG? Is there anything else oyut there like this?

-Discuss and flame away =P

 

[sea]

But can you quest into dungeons and beat enemies to death with baseball bats?

 

[kris]

This is not the first topic like this...

 

[Angthoron]

EA's sports games are more stat driven than EA's RPGs.

 

[laclongquan]

But can you quest into dungeons and beat Ss and Ms to death with baseball bats?

Fixed for the hope.

 

[Phelot]

EA's sports games are more stat driven than most RPGs.

Sadly, I fear I fixed this for you.

Troll OP aside, he is right. Sports games have more meaningful stats that are better used than most if not all full blooded cRPGs.

Check this out:

In this section I will outline all of the pitching ratings in the game and
explain each one and how they should be developed for a successful career.

STAMINA- This determines how many pitches you throw in an outing. The higher
the bar the more pitches you can throw and the more innings you can go. If you
are creating a Starting Pitcher then this will be an important rating starting
out because it will allow you to keep a good level of energy throughout a game
which in turn makes it easier to throw your pitches with control.

MAX- 5 points
RECOMMENDED- 5 Points(Starters/Closers)

If you are creating a Starter then you should put the bar at the max. This
ensures that you won't have to touch your stamina throughout the season and
will allow you to focus on your Hits per 9, Balls/9 and your Strikeouts/9.

PITCHING CLUTCH- This rating allows your pitcher to dig deep and get out of
tough situations(Bases loaded, no outs). This is important for starters but
really important for relievers because they will most likely come in the game
in pressure situations.

MAX- 5 Points
RECOMMENEDED- Starting Point(Starters) +5(Closers)

Since the amount that this will go up won't be much i can't recommend wasting
the points which you can put toward your pitches and per 9 ratings.

HITS PER 9- This rating determines how easy it is for batters to get hits off
you. Needless to say this is important for both starters and relievers. If you
make the mistake of not touching this stat and focusing on your pitches you
will be sorry because your pitches will get hit frequently by all batters good
or not.

MAX- 5 Points
RECOMMENDED- 5 Points(Starters/Closers)

Max this out as it's only 5 points and is one of the most important stats for
your pitcher. This will make it harder for you be hittable which is vital in
racking up points fast and improving your player.

HOMERUNS PER 9- This rating determines how hard it is for your pitcher to give
up a homerun or a deep fly ball which could turn into a double or triple. This
is important for both Starters and Relievers because nobody wants to give a
walk-off home run or a bases loaded jack which will severely damage your ERA.

MAX- 5 Points
RECOMMENDED- 5 Points(Starters/Closers)

I maxed this out since it was so cheap and you will reap such a benefit from
not getting taken deep all the time.

STRIKEOUTS PER 9- It took me a while before I realized how important this stat
was. This stat determines how easy it is for your pitcher to get a strikeout.
Since I am a closer I found this to be important because if I can strike out
the side I don't have to worry about the runners on base. This is less
important for starters because if you get alot of strikeouts, your stamina
will suffer because you will throw more pitches.

MAX- 5 Points
RECOMMENDED- 5 Points(Starters/Closers)

Like most of the per 9 ratings this should be maxed out. Not only will this
help you get strikeouts it'll increase the points you get also. And I still
like Strikeout pitchers.

BALLS PER 9- This stat basically determines your pitchers overall level of
control on his pitches.This is very important because if he has no control
then your pitches won't go where you want them to and that will make it
easier to give up walks or even worse hits.

MAX- 5 Points
RECOMMENDED- 5 Points(Starters/Closers)

Max this out like the other per 9 ratings. The reason for this as stated
above is control. With little or no BB/9 your pitches will rarely go where
you want them to and the result will either be a HR or a hit.

DURABILITY- This determines how frequently your player will be injured
throughout his career. It is important but you really won't get hurt that much
to waste starting points on it. I've only been injured once for 6 days.

MAX- 5 Points
RECOMMENDED- Starting Point(All)

My reason for leaving this stat blank is because you can do the Long Distance
Running training and raise both your stamina and durability. Also the easiest
reason could be if you get injured don't save the game.

FIELDING ABILITY- This determines how many fielding errors your pitcher will
make. Since your pitcher really won't have that much interaction on the field
don't worry about this stat until you have points to spare(meaning all your
pitches are maxed out).

Like I said above don't worry about this because your points earlier on in
your career can be spent on you pitches and Per 9 ratings which are alot more
important than fielding ability.

ARM STRENGTH- This determines how strong your pitchers are is in the field.
Like fielding ability this also isn't important until you have points to spare

ARM ACCURACY- Like Arm strength this isn't important for you pitcher because
most of his throws in the field will be short anyway so he won't need to have
accuract because he is so close to his target.

And that's just the stats for pitchers and doesn't even get into the types of pitches, delivery, etc.

This is the science of RPGs that most RPGs fail at. Pretty sad.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

This is not the first topic like this...

-My apologies if this has been discussed before.

You see, this is actually a very sad thing IMHO. Why is the best RPG on a console a damn SPORTS game? Seriously???

Okay, lets look at this from another angle- In the 1980s and 1990s if I were browsing video/PC games and I saw a god damn BASEBALL MITT picture on the Box , I could assume that-

A)Game was going to be simplified and button mashy

B) Game would be aimed at an audience that does not know what HP/XP and Levels mean...

c) The Jocks at my school would probably know the game inside and out and yet STILL knock my Dungeons and Dragons book (2nd Ed , thank you) from my hands and laugh at me...

-During that same period IF I saw a box with a Dragon picture (or various other monsters) with a n armored knight (or scantily clad vixen) chances were that...

A) game would be heavily stat based and PROBABLY turn based

B) Game would have some exploration, Choice and Consequence (or the illusion of such)

c) Game would PROBABLY require some thought

-Okay... Fast forward to today...

Everyone (even my Grandma) knows what HP/XP and Levels do in a "game" and I am not so sure this is a good thing. =/
A game which has a dragon on the cover will most likely-

A) LOOK super flashy and kewl in the graphics department- Lots of pretty colors, explosions and shiny things-

B) Be a "real time": button mashing fest... Oh yes the battles will LOOK Epic but in reality it is very hard to "lose".

C) Game will be beaten in 10 hours or less with zero replayability since it is designed to see and do EVERYTHING in a small playthrough.

D) Be played by those same jocks who now thing Dragons are Kewl now that you dont have to actually READ anything or use Stats.

-Then I play MLB the SHOW and I am not only blown away, but I am mad as hell... I know EA sports was mentioned but they do not hold a candle to the RPG goodness of MLB the SHOW (which really is an RPG...About baseball.)

So do the Jocks today beat the shit out of the kids playing Sports games and call them nerds? While Playing Dragon Age 2 themselves since its so damn "actiony".

What the Hell is going on here?

EDIT: I am not Trolling either. I am trying to be a bit funny about a topic I am dead serious about. MLB the Show is one of my favorite RPGs and this should not be so... At all.... I hate Sports...Really....

 

[kris]

This is not the first topic like this...

-My apologies if this has been discussed before.

c) The Jocks at my school would probably know the game inside and out and yet STILL knock my Dungeons and Dragons book (2nd Ed , thank you) from my hands and laugh at me...
.

Was about a EA basketball game last time and then turned into football manager.

You really have jocks like that at your school? Was never dynamics like that in the schools I went too, even if there were some idiots. I was a jock/nerd multiclass anyway.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

This is not the first topic like this...

-My apologies if this has been discussed before.

c) The Jocks at my school would probably know the game inside and out and yet STILL knock my Dungeons and Dragons book (2nd Ed , thank you) from my hands and laugh at me...
.

Was about a EA basketball game last time and then turned into football manager.

You really have jocks like that at your school? Was never dynamics like that in the schools I went too, even if there were some idiots. I was a jock/nerd multiclass anyway.

Multiclassing had far too many penalties at my school =P

-No. They really were not THAT bad. I am being (or trying to be) a bit funny...I know I fail at funny. =/

-Concerning basketball... Seems too button mashy for me. I tried a demo of EA 2013 last night from PSN and it felt like an arcade game with stats. Same with EAs football games (madden) which felt a bit RPGish and DID have strategy and tactics, BUT again- Was too arcade-like for my RPG tastes... I found that I do l;ike Madden but only if I let the computer actually do all the playing and I just manage (call plays and stuff) because if you actually control the guys its kind of too easy.

Baseball is nearly "turn based"- And the way MLB THE SHOW does things its an actual RPG. Very hard to explain if you have not played it- But I have tried EA Sport baseball as well and it wasnt the same (still more RPG than many "RPG"s) - The extent of THE SHOW's RPG systems is ruley Mind Blowing.

 

[Gold]

The NBA 2ks are very close to being a full simulationalist dream. I think all they need to add are baby's mothers and buying property to properly reproduce the NBA experience.

I think one reason Sport games can be so in depth is because they are trying to accurately reproduce a known and understood product. Whole cloth RPGs require creativity in their development, sport titles do not.

 

[Bigg Boss]

I thought Mass Effect 3 was the best RPG for the consoles?

 

[OuterSpace]

There was also my NHL "troll" thread:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ea-sports-makes-better-rpgs-than-bioware.66508/

I don't have a PS3 so I can't play The Show; which is too bad because from what I've heard it's the only baseball game worth playing these days.

Anyway, sports games rely heavily on twitchy gameplay as opposed to carefully thought our strategy (possibly with the exception of NFL). Regarding EA Sports games, the developers never fully disclose what each stat does instead providing vague descriptions of their effect. I think this protects their micro-transaction business model in which you can pay to boost individual stats. This provides an incentive to the developer to create as many stat categories as can be reasonably tolerated by the player (a lot of the stat categories in NHL could be logically aggregated together). Just my two cents. I still love sports games and sports. Running a fantasy season provides a lot of the satisfying management options and open ended gameplay that strategy games provide. I would say that the new XCOM is more akin to a sports game than a traditional strategy game.

 

[Excidium]

So anything with statistics is an RPG?

 

[DarKPenguiN]

There was also my NHL "troll" thread:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ea-sports-makes-better-rpgs-than-bioware.66508/

I don't have a PS3 so I can't play The Show; which is too bad because from what I've heard it's the only baseball game worth playing these days.

Anyway, sports games rely heavily on twitchy gameplay as opposed to carefully thought our strategy (possibly with the exception of NFL). Regarding EA Sports games, the developers never fully disclose what each stat does instead providing vague descriptions of their effect. I think this protects their micro-transaction business model in which you can pay to boost individual stats. This provides an incentive to the developer to create as many stat categories as can be reasonably tolerated by the player (a lot of the stat categories in NHL could be logically aggregated together). Just my two cents. I still love sports games and sports. Running a fantasy season provides a lot of the satisfying management options and open ended gameplay that strategy games provide. I would say that the new XCOM is more akin to a sports game than a traditional strategy game.

This (MLB SHOW) isnt a "twitch" game (although that mode exists) its actually very complex but essentially is stat based... If you have a player you have maxed out you have a very big "zone" where bat placement and timing mean nothing. Also, factored in is the Pitch type, placement, speed and Pitchers stats.

EDIT: Also, you have to continue traing as skills degrade if not trained and you have limited resources to do this- Then age and injury come into play as well over a career. Plus streaks (good and bad)

Yes, you press a button to swing but it isnt "twitchy".

So anything with statistics is an RPG?

No. Its so much more than this. And this game isnt just a stat heavy game but a real , complex, RPG.

Even the announcers actually remember things you have done in the past (even among separate players) and adjust their banter around these things. Its amazing- never heard anything like it . An example would be a Pitcher who hits a batter in some random game. Later on (games later) the same pitcher hits the same batter again again. The third time he cokmes up to bat the announcers will say something like "Yeah these two have faced off before and have bad blood- The pitcher hit this batter in game X and game Y and hes a real asshole. Last game the batter sustained a broken knee and was out for three games [If this happened]

Now multiply this times 1000 random things which could happen in a game (or in between games with trades and such) and the way everything is put together and commented on is amazing. Seriously, it has to be played to be understood.

BUT, it just isnt that- See, you create a Player (you) and there is an entire game around this. You start n the minor leagues and really suck- But through training and games you get stat points to level up a HUGE myriad of skills. Then there is negotians. "quests", etc, etc, etc.

Very hard to do this game justice as an RPG since its late and my brain is foggy- I was really hoping some of you had played this. But....

Just a sample- But this remembers what YOU have done throughout a season/career/etc. Its totally personalized.http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012...ubroadcast-presentations-put-you-in-the-game/

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012...ubroadcast-presentations-put-you-in-the-game/
EDIT 2: And once again, this is NOT a troll post. If someone took the care to make an RPG with this depth it would be amazing. If these announcers have 1000s of hours of commentary which changes based on your actions- Why can we not get NPCs who act the same? Or real C and C? Or the depth level this game has even outside of the actual game of "baseball" (like having depth outside of the game of "combat")
This game is not a baseball game with RPG elements- BUT an RPG with baseball elements. And far more RPG than anything on a console right now or in recent years.

 

[Jasede]

Wow, now I want to buy it. Fuck you.

 

[Excommunicator]

Is there an option to choose not to play baseball in this game

 

[laclongquan]

It's in sport skin, chap, it scare off people around here.

 

[ColCol]

you kinda got me hooked to the idea now, Which game in the series are you directly referring to?

 

[DarKPenguiN]

you kinda got me hooked to the idea now, Which game in the series are you directly referring to?

Okay, second time I will attempt to type a response... My first response didnt go through because I evidently tried to post it while the site was down for maintenance... =/

I played the 2011 and 2012 versions. Have not played the new one yet, nor will I until it is vastly discounted. I would recommend buying whatever version you can from a discount bin/pawn shop since it will run you less than $10 and although each version adds more announcer banter (example 70 hours was added to the announcers in the 2013 version) the "gameplay" is essentially the same across the board.

-When you first play, try a few games using the default settings- THEN go in and tweak all the settings to your liking once you have a "feel" for the game... For instance, Umpires by default make mistakes. They are ALL based on real Umpires...They have stats and biases towards teams/players and their stats determine whether they make proper calls or not. This makes the game look like it cheats sometimes when blatantly bad calls are made (its funny too since the announcers will bitch about the idiot umpire or question the call)- This is one thing I always turn off since it can cost you big games and usually works against you.

Other default things you will want to play around with as well . Since the game is customizable in about every single aspect, it will take some playing around in the settings to make it "right" for you. There are 3 ways to bad/Pitch field, etc... Certain Players can be set to full AI control/Partial AI control or no AI control, along with a myriad of other things to tweak and play around with.

-So yeah, after a few games at default settings you will have a good idea what you like/dislike and then personalize everything to your standards.

Anyhow this is one of the best games I have played from any era... I am still playing this at least weekly and have been for going on 2 years. Enjoy. EDIT: And I mean the SAME GAME lol.