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KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now in Open Backer Beta

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
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Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,008
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San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
RatTower personally I prefer written updates. The videos were well done and informative, and would be fine for me as companions to a written piece. I just hate feeling like I'm forced to go through update information at a glacial pace that I can't affect (by EG reading fast etc), especially when I'm doing it on the Codex (where I have to do a lot of reading to keep abreast of my chosen topics of interest).
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
470
RatTower rushing ahead by a mile here, but assuming this sells well enough for you to continue doing this, would you consider an expansion to this?

Presumably it's a good amount of work for a solid engine you'd easily re-use, yes?
(hint: a lot of people could play UUs/Arx forever given the odd content addition. Just saying)

Refactoring the code not only cleaned it up but also made it more reusable. That's all I can say for now ;)

RatTower personally I prefer written updates. The videos were well done and informative, and would be fine for me as companions to a written piece. I just hate feeling like I'm forced to go through update information at a glacial pace that I can't affect (by EG reading fast etc), especially when I'm doing it on the Codex (where I have to do a lot of reading to keep abreast of my chosen topics of interest).

personally I prefer written updates.
Yeah, same here.

But, it's the new gen and reading can be scary, so many words! So unfortunately, i not only see his point, i'm actualy sad to say it's probably the right move to make :(

I hate videos that could have been text, but in this case you probably want to see the features in action?

Future videos will strongly rely on scripts (for subtitles). Perhaps I could release the script next to the video (if it makes sense - depends on the content I suppose).

still NOTHING about the supposed rpgcodex content huh DarkUnderlord
I think I answered a survey and sent a thing off for this.

No, I don't remember what I sent. It probably involved dead Codex memes like equip the ring and such.

I received the submission. Backer quests will likely be integrated toward the end of the development.
 

LudensCogitet

Learned
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
210
This game is starting to show up in unusual places. (Video is timestamped to Monomyth.)


Iron Pineapple is pretty cool. And he specifically mentions he included Monomyth in the video because of its King's Field influence, not Dark Souls. The guy is a Fromsoft aficionado all the way back to the beginning of their catalog.

I was pleased to see he covered it!
 
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Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
771
Location
Australia
Has anyone attempted to setup an x-box controller for this game / play it on a Steam Deck / or similar? Any instructions for the uninitiated if they have?
 

LostHisMarbles

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
956
And in a breaking update, we can now confirm RatTower has indeed gone missing.
Rumour has him last heard chanting 'Nhi Vista' repeatedly, though no other details have as of now become known.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,477
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
And in a breaking update, we can now confirm RatTower has indeed gone missing.
Rumour has him last heard chanting 'Nhi Vista' repeatedly, though no other details have as of now become known.



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/836367155/monomyth/posts/3705763

State of the Game: Video Devlog 1.0 | Beta Update 2​


Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

It's time for another update on Monomyth! Just like last month, I would like to present this update in the form of a short video, which you can find here:


For those of you who would rather read, I will attach the transcript plus relevant screengrabs!

Best wishes,

Michael

-------------------------------------

Video Transcript (Video Devlog 1.0)

Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

A new year has begun and I am still very busy developing the project. I am going through milestone after milestone, slowly pushing toward a game that is ready for you, the backers, and the many followers who have supported Monomyth for over a year now (some of you even longer than that). Thank you again for your patience! I will do my best to get the project into your hands as soon as possible.

But before that, we will have to go through a couple more beta patches first. As this new year begins, a new update for Monomyth’s closed beta is about to be released. Update 2 is being packaged at this very moment. So, I thought, let’s take a look at what’s actually in there, so you can get an understanding of what goes into a patch and why this particular one took so long:

The most time-consuming task for update 2 was the level design. Under the heartlands, you will find the mines and the factory tower.

c33d2b3dc9350caa38cbce119fa5fc1b_original.png

These areas are relatively expansive and there is a lot of focus on verticality, which made it harder to assess the full scope of the environment. Essentially I started out with the idea of an underground tower adjacent to a series of caves, which later became a mine. My original intention was that the players would make their way down the tower traveling between the tower halls and the mines which are connected by bridges.

06ad79aae9b3c1c8cbfb1e2eb6e415a2_original.png

You can probably see the inspiration from locations like the mines of Moria or dwarven strongholds from various fantasy settings here.

Of course, the more impressive you want the vertical aspect to be, the higher that tower will turn out to be. But the higher the tower gets, the more caves you need to build to get a well-knit together environment with a well-balanced variety of aesthetics. You don’t just want to be in the tower and you don’t just want to be in the caves. You want to travel through a nicely mixed-up environment to keep things fresh. And from that, you can also see why the scope kinda blew up. Building the environment, especially the caves took much longer than I anticipated.

This is especially ironic because originally I restarted the development of update 2’s area due to the original concepts being out of scope.

47992697bd3cd9bd557fad233e76dbc9_original.png


Original design - Layer 1
18a52cb1d0e3a2f047cd71aded2f71e5_original.png


Original design - Layer 0

Here you have a 60x60 tile map of the original design. Every tile corresponds to a portion of the floor that is 400x400 unreal units in the engine. The original design was also supposed to include a certain verticality aspect so it basically had two levels layered on top of each other, including one connecting intermediate section. This level was almost entirely blocked out (with the exception of the ceilings), and it was clear that it was probably out of scope.

The area design should have probably been cut in half and for verticality, the four remaining sections should have been layered on top of each other.

Instead, I restarted the area at the design stage, which is probably okay (you don’t want to tinker too much with broken old designs), but I made one big mistake: Instead of creating another map like for the original design, I winged the details on the environment. Of course, I had things down on paper, I had the core ideas and some rooms mapped out, but I also left a lot of blank spaces in that design. So basically I had some rooms planned out but only in specific sections, and the rest of the map kind of grew from what was built.

That last part specifically proved to be a big mistake. Don’t “grow” your maps, because that will almost certainly cause trouble in terms of scope. It’s very likely that you will overscale the area that you planned out in detail and then the rest of the environment suffers from it. You will probably wish to bring the same level of detail to those parts of the map, but it’s simply out of scope and you will never finish your work.

I noticed this happening as I went along because the workload went out of balance, meaning, that there were portions of the map that were basically done in terms of regular geometry, but which would have been way too much work during detail passes and beyond - the parts of level creation where you basically go through every room again and add detail meshes, and then NPC and mechanics and lighting and whatnot. So I suspected this happening at first and when I was sure I had to rescale, which means, bluntly said, cutting parts of the level. That’s always unpleasant because you already worked on it and you spent time on it but you have to do it or the project milestone will fail. It’s basically a sunk-cost issue.

The good part of this is, you can still keep what you made for either another level or even another project. There is plenty of examples of this in released games, even in the Triple-A titles.

Either way, the remaining parts of cut-down levels are very often better for it. I firmly believe that’s the case with Monomyth’s update 2 area because I am quite satisfied with the end result. It has some very good verticality, a lot of complexity in terms of layout, interesting little mechanics, and secrets. So I feel it came out pretty alright even if it took way too long to finish.

The main lesson here is probably: Don’t grow an environment. Don’t improvise room designs. Properly plan section details ahead of time, at least to a point where you have a rough outline of how to progress through a section and you can estimate the full scale of an area and not just a part of it. Otherwise, the workload for different parts of the level will likely get out of balance and you will have to cut stuff and rescale, which will cost you a lot of time. And we don’t want that, especially when time and resources are sparse. That’s probably a fine way to summarize the issues with update 2’s level design.

Luckily I won’t have to deal with these problems in update 3, because there the level is already blocked out and scaled properly. Update 3 is also generally further along, which makes me confident that it should be done significantly faster.

4fc2edbe21a6997755c889d7ce88184f_original.png

b33d7b73a11a1f15db7bb330438ba296_original.png

3cb52a470b20a89549ed798ad389a243_original.png

6a0a43fceb7474150991fede3040b96f_original.png

0ac41af23e368914de5885038fbe9050_original.png

But let’s move on. What else is in update 2?

I have worked on a whole bunch of new items, particularly weapons. I mention these specifically because I work on weapon models in batches, meaning the final items are not only meant for update 2, respectively the area from that update, but also for later parts of the game. So this is also a bit of preponed work that will save time in following patches. Something similar is true for spells. Most of these have been ported to the new codebase and are mechanically functional, they just need a visual workover.

507e6d058e903cce53af4269f21329a9_original.png

The new area also features some new NPCs. Of course, that also means new dialogue. The dialogue in Monomyth is organized in dialogue trees or more accurately in multiple dialogue graphs per dialogue partner. The graph structure has to be planned out ahead of time - I do that in a simple spreadsheet. That spreadsheet then has to be transferred into the game’s data tables from where dialogue data is read. As a result writing dialogue was quite a pain in previous updates. Not only did I have to take great care in planning the graph structure coherently, but I also had to spend significant time transferring the finished graph into the respective data table. I did this manually, which is of course always a potential source for error and therefore bugs. So in update 2, I decided I want to have no more of this and I implemented some tool support. I can now do an automatic transcription of planned-out dialogue graphs into Unreal’s data table format.

743d20953aa3eacec6827f01057a3ddc_original.png


Old dialogue workflow
36f6041f35bfa7dea61593a1b889df3f_original.png


New dialogue workflow
I use a simple python script for that, which transcribes a CSV into JSON format. The JSON file can then be appended to UE4’s exported data tables, which are then just reimported into the engine’s editor with the new data. This already saved me a ton of time and I am very glad I implemented this relatively small tool. It isn’t full tool support for writing dialogue but it automates the most time-consuming part of it.

So that’s it for update 2. As I said it is currently building. I will be going through it a few more times, applying some last fixes here and there and it will be in the beta branch very soon. And then it is on to update 3, which, as I said, will hopefully be done a lot faster this time. During the next Kickstarter update I will probably still be busy with it, but hopefully wrapping it up soon at that point. I believe that Kickstarter update will also be a good opportunity to go into detail on the remaining tasks and to outline another little roadmap to release, or at the very least, the open backer beta. As I mentioned in previous updates, the open backer beta will be released sometime between updates 4 and 5, depending on how much polishing I still need to do beforehand. Either way, stay tuned for more updates, and see you soon!

Best Wishes,

Michael
 

LostHisMarbles

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
956
I said no more gaming because it just got too fucking repetitive over all these decades and couldn't be asked to be honest. Like at all, for years now.
(5700G+32GB+2TB Samsung Evo right now, but using internal "GPU", lol)

But for this motherfucker?
I.. just might be buying me a 3080 or something, whatever's enough for it anyway ^^
 

garren

Arcane
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Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Grue-Infested Darkness
I wonder if the game is gonna have more conventional traps, like trapped doors that do something when you open them, arrows shooting from walls, beartraps, strings across pathways, pits that open beneath you etc.

Also the guy trying to blow up the bookshelf in that one video gave me a fun idea, maybe some strong explosions made with limited items could blow up stuff that is usually indestructible like the bookshelves or maybe weak walls, stuff like that. Just imagine a secret area, like an old walled off cellar entrance somewhere, with a bit of loot, maybe an old skeleton hanging around.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,477
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/836367155/monomyth/posts/3710207

Quick Update: Beta 2 is now live!​


Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

Just a quick note for everybody in the closed beta: Update 2 is now live. To download it restart Steam and the patch should be automatically applied. The version on the menu screen should be "Beta 2.00a".

I have gone over the contents of this patch during the last update, but here is another quick tip:

If you wish to test only the new area you can do so by creating a new character and pressing "K" in the game. This will call the debug menu:

96327c7582471cca1e4bb8858c20e099_original.png

Click on "Area Focus Testing" and choose the mines. You will be automatically teleported to the new area and your level will be adjusted accordingly (you will have to re-allocate your attributes/skill points at the nearest shrine).

And that's already all for this quick update. Hope you'll enjoy testing the new area. See you in Lysandria!

Best Wishes,

Michael
 

garren

Arcane
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Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Grue-Infested Darkness
RatTower Are the enemies in the game gonna have different demeanors, or just attack you or other factions straight up when they see them? I was watching an Ultima Underworld clip and and saw that the first rat you see is indifferent to you and just wanders around at first for example. In Gothic some monsters also warn you first if you try to get too close (or creep toward you, try to get away etc). They also have sleep cycles, with maybe even one guard that stays up to warn others in case of an attack. Might be too much of a feature creep to implement, just asking :).

EDIT: Took a quick tour of the kickstarter demo again, I wish you could turn off the zoom effect (field of view change) when you sprint, it just feels janky and is kinda immersion breaking imo. Also I wish the mouse speed didn't change when you switch weapons or aim down a bow or something, that feels super janky too, just leave my screen size and mouse alone please, that would make things a lot smoother. ;)
 
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Bad Sector

Arcane
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Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,226
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Has anyone attempted to setup an x-box controller for this game / play it on a Steam Deck / or similar? Any instructions for the uninitiated if they have?

When i tried the first public demo it had some partial gamepad support but IIRC it wasn't very usable. At the time it wasn't even possible to arbitrarily bind keys and mouse buttons to any action either, so input was probably still unfinished.

Regardless of official support, you should be able to make things work via Steam - especially on Steam Deck where you have more buttons and touch support - since that can translate gamepad events to WASD + mouse events. Some time ago i tried it with Alpha Prime (some old FPS that doesn't have any gamepad support at all) using an old laptop connected to a big CRT TV and a regular xbox gamepad and it worked fine.

Official support would be great of course.
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
470
RatTower Are the enemies in the game gonna have different demeanors, or just attack you or other factions straight up when they see them? I was watching an Ultima Underworld clip and and saw that the first rat you see is indifferent to you and just wanders around at first for example. In Gothic some monsters also warn you first if you try to get too close (or creep toward you, try to get away etc). They also have sleep cycles, with maybe even one guard that stays up to warn others in case of an attack. Might be too much of a feature creep to implement, just asking :).

EDIT: Took a quick tour of the kickstarter demo again, I wish you could turn off the zoom effect (field of view change) when you sprint, it just feels janky and is kinda immersion breaking imo. Also I wish the mouse speed didn't change when you switch weapons or aim down a bow or something, that feels super janky too, just leave my screen size and mouse alone please, that would make things a lot smoother. ;)

I have not implemented a "Growling" state like the one in Gothic, but I have actually designed the NPC's controller state machine with that behavior in mind.
Broadly speaking the state machine has three superstates (idle, combat and searching). These change depending on whether another character was heard or seen.
To add growling I simply would have to insert another regular state between the idle and combat superstates. So architecturally there would be no problem (at least in theory it's just another enum/object plus switching around a couple of outgoing references for idle states), but I haven't really gotten around to working on the state itself and implementing its functionality.
Perhaps if I have the time for another AI overhaul during polishing.

Most camera effects are not present in the current version because of the different codebase. I might add some back, but then you'll be able to turn them off.
 

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