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Capcom Monster Hunter Rise

Alphard

Magister
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
1,147
Location
I'm an alien humanoid tetrasexual horse.
I remember when MH Tri came out, and people complained that it was not a good game because it was too easy. It happened with Portable 3rd. Even MHX was slammed hard because monster hunts would end in literal minutes (though Deviants were appreciated). Don't even get me started on the shit MH World also got. This is a tale as old as time itself. A new MH comes out and people complain. Notice how I skipped MH4U. This is because we never got the base game in the west so people couldn't complain it was too easy. Each time the G-Rank / Master Rank game is released, the complainers are satiated. It's going to happen with Sunbreak as well. And no, Rise is not a 'babby's first MH'. All LR/HR MHs are easy.
disagree. i have played MH4U and game is definitely challenging in LR/HR too for village quests. Even MHW where they merged village and hub was harder l. Rise is the easiest game in the serie.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,247
Location
Nocturne dumpster
I remember when MH Tri came out, and people complained that it was not a good game because it was too easy. It happened with Portable 3rd. Even MHX was slammed hard because monster hunts would end in literal minutes (though Deviants were appreciated). Don't even get me started on the shit MH World also got. This is a tale as old as time itself. A new MH comes out and people complain. Notice how I skipped MH4U. This is because we never got the base game in the west so people couldn't complain it was too easy. Each time the G-Rank / Master Rank game is released, the complainers are satiated. It's going to happen with Sunbreak as well. And no, Rise is not a 'babby's first MH'. All LR/HR MHs are easy.
disagree. i have played MH4U and game is definitely challenging in LR/HR too for village quests. Even MHW where they merged village and hub was harder l. Rise is the easiest game in the serie.
So, it's just a case of you getting better. 4U's LR and HR barely gave me a challenge and I slept through MHW. None of these games are remotely challenging if you are awake behind the wheel and Capcom has never designed these games with masochist difficulty in mind. I urge you to try and play any of these games with randoms online. A few days ago people double carted against HR Anjanath in Rise. I did 10 random games (for fun) and out of those 10 I was only able to finish 2 because people kept triple carting. The skill level of the average hunter is insanely low and for them Rise is an impossibly hard game already, likely because most of them are new. Once they get a few more hunts under their belts it's going to be ez from there on out and they'll join the chorus in wishing that MH was hard "again". I've been through this rodeo enough times to know how it goes.
 
Last edited:

Rafidur

Learned
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
366
Once they get a few more hunts under their belts it's going to be ez from there on out
Even after iceborne was out for ages I still saw people carting a lot to raging brachy.
 

Monstrous Bat

Cipher
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
625
Rise on release had no Kushala / Teostra / Chameleos, no Valstrax, no apex monsters outside rampages, no extra hard missions. "Baby's first Monster Hunter" is a reasonably accurate description. In later updates they added more challenging content, but at that point the impression had stuck, and people's enthusiasm was cooling rapidly.

Admittedly the core gameplay (i.e. fighting monsters) was still quite enjoyable, but that alone is not going to persuade me into giving Capcom $60 for some unfinished mess every year. And the game had other issues. Spirit birds and rampage were terrible ideas.
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,194
Location
Ommadawn
The problem with base Rise wasn't the difficulty, it was that it had no balance whatsoever and the wirebug skills ruined most weapons because they were on CD and were overpowered as fuck compared to the base moveset of the weapon. This turned every weapon's moves into filler so you can spam the arts.

Some weapons were actually unplayable because the game was so badly designed that skills (like guard) would cripple wirebug skills (anchor rage). Other skills were redesigned so that their traditional use was no longer applicable (Focus and Crit Draw) and they were now worthless options on weapons that traditionally found them useful.

To add to that they bet hard on their new tower defense game mode which was a complete clusterfuck and impossible to lose. It was the most boring shit they ever put into a monster hunter game and they designed late game around it until they realized people hated it and added other ways to get rampage tickets.

In a base Monster Hunter game where there is no end-game content to keep you going the best you can do is make sure the game is well designed but Capcom clearly did not pay any attention whatsoever to the gameplay in Rise. Hopefully Sunbreak is better (unlikely).
 

Zerth

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
334
Spirit birds and rampage were terrible ideas.
I believe the spirit birds were intented to make wirebug navigation through the map's layout during missions more compelling. Rampage was a shoddy attempt on reinventing siege formula. At least the mhw sieges were an improvement over classics.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
14,013
So, it's just a case of you getting better. 4U's LR and HR barely gave me a challenge and I slept through MHW. None of these games are remotely challenging if you are awake behind the wheel and Capcom has never designed these games with masochist difficulty in mind. I urge you to try and play any of these games with randoms online. A few days ago people double carted against HR Anjanath in Rise. I did 10 random games (for fun) and out of those 10 I was only able to finish 2 because people kept triple carting. The skill level of the average hunter is insanely low and for them Rise is an impossibly hard game already, likely because most of them are new. Once they get a few more hunts under their belts it's going to be ez from there on out and they'll join the chorus in wishing that MH was hard "again". I've been through this rodeo enough times to know how it goes.

I finished rise basically skipping game while wearing one of the first monster armor with barely upgraded weapon. This is how easy is this game. Base 4 is leagues harder than Rise.

I mean for fuck sake half of the monsters in Rise are just trash base monsters from older titles with barely any new move. They even made out of Azuros one of the end game bosses gave him few new moves and voila.

Obviously with R Ultimate they can rectify it but it still doesn't change the fact that base game is shit.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,247
Location
Nocturne dumpster
So, it's just a case of you getting better. 4U's LR and HR barely gave me a challenge and I slept through MHW. None of these games are remotely challenging if you are awake behind the wheel and Capcom has never designed these games with masochist difficulty in mind. I urge you to try and play any of these games with randoms online. A few days ago people double carted against HR Anjanath in Rise. I did 10 random games (for fun) and out of those 10 I was only able to finish 2 because people kept triple carting. The skill level of the average hunter is insanely low and for them Rise is an impossibly hard game already, likely because most of them are new. Once they get a few more hunts under their belts it's going to be ez from there on out and they'll join the chorus in wishing that MH was hard "again". I've been through this rodeo enough times to know how it goes.

I finished rise basically skipping game while wearing one of the first monster armor with barely upgraded weapon. This is how easy is this game.
So, just like every other MH in LR and HR.

They even made out of Azuros one of the end game bosses gave him few new moves and voila.
Same stuff as they did in X / GenU with deviants. There was Redhelm Arzuros (and Snowbaron Lagombi!).
 
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Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
14,013
They did and they also had 90 other large monsters to offload your angst about shitty monster here and there.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,247
Location
Nocturne dumpster
Until you got to Gravios or Basarios.. or the dromes.. or Plesioth.. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. I'd rather fight Arzuros over any of those.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,352
Jungle map revamp looks surprisingly well done. Wonder if the classy vespoids that paralyzed you to death will make a return too, imagine the rage. :lol:

Wouldn't mind if they brought back updated versions of Portable 3rd maps and MHFU Snowy Mountains and Swamp into newer games, those were all great.
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,194
Location
Ommadawn
Any impressions of demo Malzeno so far?.
Great monster. Hits hard but has lots of openings if you pay attention. Also has a cool teleport move + bloodblight promotes aggressive play by healing you on attacks.
PS: Unfortunately the map in the demo sucks ass for fighting him cause he's always moving between 2 distant zones.
 

Zerth

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
334
Cool, Im looking forward for struggling in beating Malzeno as much I did against Velkhana, if not more.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
3,889
I finished rise basically skipping game while wearing one of the first monster armor with barely upgraded weapon.

Wait, are you referring to the point where the Elder gives you his big katana and the credits roll?
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
3,889
Well, I'm going to assume that's what you're talking about because a.) there's no way you got into 3 star hub hunts with the first monster tier armor and a barely upgraded weapon and b.) because the time leading up to the credits is definitely the most braindead part of the game.

I would in no way consider the 15 hours of village quests with the credit roll at the end of them to be finishing the game. In fact, that's what I would consider to be the tutorial, with the credits serving as a type of belated title reveal, and with the actual game beginning after them. Even the way the game is presented from that point on supports this, with the campaign proper focusing around the gathering hub. Now is it stupid that the game has what is essentially a 15 hour tutorial that semi-presents itself as a full campaign? Yes, absolutely. Is that 15 hours the base game? No way. Like I said in an earlier post, that's maybe 1/5th-1/6th of the game.

I'm interested in how many people who proclaim the game is so yawn-inducingly easy did the majority of their hub quests in multiplayer, which is of course pretty much every MH's version of easy mode. Or how far they even got in their hub quests.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
123
The problem with base Rise wasn't the difficulty, it was that it had no balance whatsoever and the wirebug skills ruined most weapons because they were on CD and were overpowered as fuck compared to the base moveset of the weapon. This turned every weapon's moves into filler so you can spam the arts.

Some weapons were actually unplayable because the game was so badly designed that skills (like guard) would cripple wirebug skills (anchor rage). Other skills were redesigned so that their traditional use was no longer applicable (Focus and Crit Draw) and they were now worthless options on weapons that traditionally found them useful.

To add to that they bet hard on their new tower defense game mode which was a complete clusterfuck and impossible to lose. It was the most boring shit they ever put into a monster hunter game and they designed late game around it until they realized people hated it and added other ways to get rampage tickets.

In a base Monster Hunter game where there is no end-game content to keep you going the best you can do is make sure the game is well designed but Capcom clearly did not pay any attention whatsoever to the gameplay in Rise. Hopefully Sunbreak is better (unlikely).

I particularly hate what they did to hammer, lance, gunlance, charge blade in Rise.

When you landed that perfectly placed SAED with Charge Blade in MHW right after guard pointing a fire breath, and the axe drop came down right on the monster's face and you watch those phials rip and roar through your target you were like "fuck yeah!! git #rekt, bitch! not in my house!". There's no such enjoyment from using the weapon in Rise.

Lance was always the weapon that picked apart the monster's moveset with small ball, moderate, sustained offense, now it's spamming spiral thrust. If you're playing lance correctly, you're crowding the monster's space, and bullying them. Now, it's not rewarding enough to even bother.

Hammer used to be the hit and run weapon, get in and smack the monster around a bit, if they KO, hit em with a big bang combo, and now it's the spam impact craters weapon which doesn't do nearly enough damage, and is remarkably lacking in visual/audio feedback. Zero dopamine from landing it.

I loved playing Gunlance in Iceborne with slap lance full burst combos on a monsters head, which also has an explosive mine planted in it, lots of damage, and explosions, the weapon was super fun to use, and very rewarding when you got a good string of bursts off.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,352
Portable team is either unable or unwilling to get Charge Blade mechanics right. They fumbled it too in Gen/GU by forcing you to go into axe mode after a guard point and lowering motion values for no reason.
 

Alphard

Magister
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
1,147
Location
I'm an alien humanoid tetrasexual horse.
The problem with base Rise wasn't the difficulty, it was that it had no balance whatsoever and the wirebug skills ruined most weapons because they were on CD and were overpowered as fuck compared to the base moveset of the weapon. This turned every weapon's moves into filler so you can spam the arts.

Some weapons were actually unplayable because the game was so badly designed that skills (like guard) would cripple wirebug skills (anchor rage). Other skills were redesigned so that their traditional use was no longer applicable (Focus and Crit Draw) and they were now worthless options on weapons that traditionally found them useful.

To add to that they bet hard on their new tower defense game mode which was a complete clusterfuck and impossible to lose. It was the most boring shit they ever put into a monster hunter game and they designed late game around it until they realized people hated it and added other ways to get rampage tickets.

In a base Monster Hunter game where there is no end-game content to keep you going the best you can do is make sure the game is well designed but Capcom clearly did not pay any attention whatsoever to the gameplay in Rise. Hopefully Sunbreak is better (unlikely).

I particularly hate what they did to hammer, lance, gunlance, charge blade in Rise.

When you landed that perfectly placed SAED with Charge Blade in MHW right after guard pointing a fire breath, and the axe drop came down right on the monster's face and you watch those phials rip and roar through your target you were like "fuck yeah!! git #rekt, bitch! not in my house!". There's no such enjoyment from using the weapon in Rise.

Lance was always the weapon that picked apart the monster's moveset with small ball, moderate, sustained offense, now it's spamming spiral thrust. If you're playing lance correctly, you're crowding the monster's space, and bullying them. Now, it's not rewarding enough to even bother.

Hammer used to be the hit and run weapon, get in and smack the monster around a bit, if they KO, hit em with a big bang combo, and now it's the spam impact craters weapon which doesn't do nearly enough damage, and is remarkably lacking in visual/audio feedback. Zero dopamine from landing it.

I loved playing Gunlance in Iceborne with slap lance full burst combos on a monsters head, which also has an explosive mine planted in it, lots of damage, and explosions, the weapon was super fun to use, and very rewarding when you got a good string of bursts off.
what about HH ? i never played it but i heard they removed all mechanics. while before you had to make combos to perform the right buff , now you select it beforehand ( i think).
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,194
Location
Ommadawn
The problem with base Rise wasn't the difficulty, it was that it had no balance whatsoever and the wirebug skills ruined most weapons because they were on CD and were overpowered as fuck compared to the base moveset of the weapon. This turned every weapon's moves into filler so you can spam the arts.

Some weapons were actually unplayable because the game was so badly designed that skills (like guard) would cripple wirebug skills (anchor rage). Other skills were redesigned so that their traditional use was no longer applicable (Focus and Crit Draw) and they were now worthless options on weapons that traditionally found them useful.

To add to that they bet hard on their new tower defense game mode which was a complete clusterfuck and impossible to lose. It was the most boring shit they ever put into a monster hunter game and they designed late game around it until they realized people hated it and added other ways to get rampage tickets.

In a base Monster Hunter game where there is no end-game content to keep you going the best you can do is make sure the game is well designed but Capcom clearly did not pay any attention whatsoever to the gameplay in Rise. Hopefully Sunbreak is better (unlikely).

I particularly hate what they did to hammer, lance, gunlance, charge blade in Rise.

When you landed that perfectly placed SAED with Charge Blade in MHW right after guard pointing a fire breath, and the axe drop came down right on the monster's face and you watch those phials rip and roar through your target you were like "fuck yeah!! git #rekt, bitch! not in my house!". There's no such enjoyment from using the weapon in Rise.

Lance was always the weapon that picked apart the monster's moveset with small ball, moderate, sustained offense, now it's spamming spiral thrust. If you're playing lance correctly, you're crowding the monster's space, and bullying them. Now, it's not rewarding enough to even bother.

Hammer used to be the hit and run weapon, get in and smack the monster around a bit, if they KO, hit em with a big bang combo, and now it's the spam impact craters weapon which doesn't do nearly enough damage, and is remarkably lacking in visual/audio feedback. Zero dopamine from landing it.

I loved playing Gunlance in Iceborne with slap lance full burst combos on a monsters head, which also has an explosive mine planted in it, lots of damage, and explosions, the weapon was super fun to use, and very rewarding when you got a good string of bursts off.
what about HH ? i never played it but i heard they removed all mechanics. while before you had to make combos to perform the right buff , now you select it beforehand ( i think).
Now it autoplays music and they removed multi note combination songs, so every song is now performed by doing the same note (attack) twice.
 

Zerth

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
334
You can switch-skill the HH into a mode more similar to the classic one. That one provides more control over the songs, the standard has gutted note combination perfomance, just if you favour more the attack moveset rather than the song mechanics.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
123
The problem with base Rise wasn't the difficulty, it was that it had no balance whatsoever and the wirebug skills ruined most weapons because they were on CD and were overpowered as fuck compared to the base moveset of the weapon. This turned every weapon's moves into filler so you can spam the arts.

Some weapons were actually unplayable because the game was so badly designed that skills (like guard) would cripple wirebug skills (anchor rage). Other skills were redesigned so that their traditional use was no longer applicable (Focus and Crit Draw) and they were now worthless options on weapons that traditionally found them useful.

To add to that they bet hard on their new tower defense game mode which was a complete clusterfuck and impossible to lose. It was the most boring shit they ever put into a monster hunter game and they designed late game around it until they realized people hated it and added other ways to get rampage tickets.

In a base Monster Hunter game where there is no end-game content to keep you going the best you can do is make sure the game is well designed but Capcom clearly did not pay any attention whatsoever to the gameplay in Rise. Hopefully Sunbreak is better (unlikely).

I particularly hate what they did to hammer, lance, gunlance, charge blade in Rise.

When you landed that perfectly placed SAED with Charge Blade in MHW right after guard pointing a fire breath, and the axe drop came down right on the monster's face and you watch those phials rip and roar through your target you were like "fuck yeah!! git #rekt, bitch! not in my house!". There's no such enjoyment from using the weapon in Rise.

Lance was always the weapon that picked apart the monster's moveset with small ball, moderate, sustained offense, now it's spamming spiral thrust. If you're playing lance correctly, you're crowding the monster's space, and bullying them. Now, it's not rewarding enough to even bother.

Hammer used to be the hit and run weapon, get in and smack the monster around a bit, if they KO, hit em with a big bang combo, and now it's the spam impact craters weapon which doesn't do nearly enough damage, and is remarkably lacking in visual/audio feedback. Zero dopamine from landing it.

I loved playing Gunlance in Iceborne with slap lance full burst combos on a monsters head, which also has an explosive mine planted in it, lots of damage, and explosions, the weapon was super fun to use, and very rewarding when you got a good string of bursts off.
what about HH ? i never played it but i heard they removed all mechanics. while before you had to make combos to perform the right buff , now you select it beforehand ( i think).

HH was dumbed down bigly. Now it's just a low damage thwack stick that auto plays music. Now you just YOLO whatever with the weapon and get your songs, and try to land as many of those earthshaker silkbind moves at every opportunity, because that's the most efficient way to play it. It's not a difficult weapon to use at all, the recital move (R2 on a dual shock pad) does a double hit and has iframes on it. You end up using that move a lot, it's one of your core offensive moves because it's a decent attack with a double-hit and iframes. You can use the mag trio combo to play all your songs at once, and that's what most people do. Between the R2, and mag trio, and earthshaker, that's really all there is to HH.

Or, I can TL;DR this and say that HH is yet another weapon that does most of its damage from spamming 1 silkbind move.

If I was to point to one weapon in this game that is off the charts performance wise at high skill levels, that would be bow. Bow absolutely crushes at top level play. But bad bow users get destroyed, and do trash DPS, because they're not properly placing shots. Very low performance at low level play, and literal WMD at top level play. You are literally Hawkeye from the Avengers.
 
Last edited:

Zerth

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
334
If I was to point to one weapon in this game that is off the charts performance wise at high skill levels, that would be bow. Bow absolutely crushes at top level play. But bad bow users get destroyed, and do trash DPS, because they're not properly placing shots. Very low performance at low level play, and literal WMD at top level play. You are literally Hawkeye from the Avengers.
It also applies to the bowguns to some extent. At low level play, ranged weapons always been less forgiving.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
123
If I was to point to one weapon in this game that is off the charts performance wise at high skill levels, that would be bow. Bow absolutely crushes at top level play. But bad bow users get destroyed, and do trash DPS, because they're not properly placing shots. Very low performance at low level play, and literal WMD at top level play. You are literally Hawkeye from the Avengers.
It also applies to the bowguns to some extent. At low level play, ranged weapons always been less forgiving.
True, because ranged gets hit for more damage, however, in many cases you're able to avoid even being in the position of a given monster's worst attacks. Bow on the other hand plays in melee range a lot of the time. Considering how they gutted spread ammo in Rise over what it was in World, spread guns are pretty much a meme. They nerfed the most skillful ammo type to use to where it's generally less performance than other safer options, which is yet another example of them dumbing down the game.
 
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