Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Incline MWO is finally dead.

Discussion in 'MMO(RP)G / Online Discussion' started by raw, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. raw Arcane Patron

    raw
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    17,233
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    [​IMG]
    It is well that MWO is so terrible, else we should grow too fond of it.

    Aah, Piranha Games. When I learned that these chaps were tasked with bringing the mechwarrior universe back to life in 2011, I knew this thing would sooner rather than later collapse in a giant explosion of shitflinging, incompetence and lies. As a connoisseur of tears and drama, the future prospects had me on the edge of my seat. And deliver. they. did. I just had to chronicle the events that let to this disaster.

    The community of MWO right now is in full riot mode, which these days translates into calling the developers "shitniggers", demands to do their job instead and of course slanderous forum signatures. PGI Lied, MWO Died read the flags of the revolutionaries, trying with force to topple the grey, monolithic vancouver-based establishment and free their game^tm. But how did it get so far?

    As with all revolutions, this one has been in the making for a long time. In fact, there is probably a lesson in how to systematically alienate a previously fanatical fanbase to be found here.

    Heat. It's a ressource that needs to be maintained or your mech will overheat and cease functioning. Obviously, the intention of introducing the "coolant flushing" feature to instantly remove any accumulated heat was critically eyed, as you would expect for any change to such a fundamental and important game mechanic. Because the coolant flushing feature had already obliterated multiplayer in previous games of the franchise, threads where created expounding on "getting this stuff right". Piranha games responded by promising not to include coolant flushing into the game.

    They lied. This led to the first revolutionary war. Rage threads where created, quits where threatened but PGI calmed the rebellious peasants by promising lower taxes nerfs to the system. However, the seed of distrust was sown and PGI being PGI, they just had to show the world their abilites as gardeners and water the fuck out of this thing.

    The second revolutionary war triggered by the bulldozing of the general discussion forum. This can certainly be seen as a direct recommendation for course of action for certain other internet bulletin boards. Anyway, PGI followed up by maintaining that creating a bunch of sub-forums instead of GD would help with "cathegorizing threads". For the critics however, GD was nuked because of the tendency of its inhabitants to critizise PGI.

    Concurrent with the forum nuke, the metagame shifted towards high-alpha damage. Weapon-systems that could instantly pop a mech were labeled "poptards". PGI responded by introducing jetpack rattle to make aiming harder. It actually succeeded in this, because the fucking rattleshit was causing motion sickness in most players. So PGI quickly rescinded on this change, leading to the 2nd raise of the poptards. And that's where the metagame still sits today.

    However, PGI wanted to tackle poptardism for real and introduced a set of balance changes that would end the dominance of snipers. PGI smugly ignored all player suggestions - of which there were many - and instead introduced Ghost Heat - or Worst Shit.

    The intricacies of Ghost Heat are too complex to dive into here. It is a classic case of developer trying to be clever when they aren't. The follow up by the playerbase was the first wave of cancellations. Preorders that performed charge-backs, where permanently banned from the game (and forums).

    Out of prostest about the Ghost Heat changes, revolutionary splinter-groups formed #saveMWO to unite their power and force a process of feedback from PGI. The only PGI that ever directly responded to #saveMWO's demands was the then well-liked community coordinator Garth Erlam, in the usual “Passing this on up the chain.” manner. Other devs and mod-attachés had a more combative stance toward the revolutionaries, going so far as to creating a retardoland - with the caveat that not everything moved into there was retarded. In midst of the smoldering tensions between revolutionaries and the establishment, PGI ordered the increase of game size to 12 man per side, which groups focusing on the competitive aspect of the game quickly denounced as another change "exacerbating" existing problems.

    Then disaster struck. PGI decreed the implementation of third person view, while the lack thereof was a cornerstone of PGI'S pitch for MWO. Shortly before the inclusion of the feature PGI calmed the masses by promising a "hardcore queue" that wouldn't allow people to use the TPV. This queue never happened.

    Immediatedly after the patch went live, the forums exploded. While the explosion left nothing in its wake, a similar milder version from another time (and place) can be found here.

    Russ Bollock, President of PGI issued a statement in response, that is notable for its display of incompetence, lack of formatting and underhanded insults. As coup de grace Russ Bollock put the blame on Erlam, one of the community's favourites. The letter was quickly dissected point by point. The thread containting the letter was of course quickly filled with the usual insults but also clear evidence of moderator censorship.

    PGI Lied, MWO Died. PGI's community practices showcase a fundamental misunderstanding of both community management and freemium model development. PGI, itself inept at dealing with continuous development over extended periods of time and community management in general, quickly frustrated the community by handling MWO as a typical AAA game, that is: keep quiet and only discuss in vague terms. When called out about it, PGI doesn't want to and Erlam can't discuss. Last week PGI released an Ask the Devs in which they essentially state that their players aren't the players they are developing for anymore. PGI has completely reversed its stance on a number of features, for example coolant flush and third person view. Worse still, PGI still has not delivered features that many players consider as essential: a new UI, tutorials and lobbies to name just a few. The title's most awaited feature - Community Warfare, is still nowhere to be seen at the horizon. Right now, MWO is essentially the same game it was a year ago.

    PGI promised a vision of Mechwarrior to the franchise's fans that led to the game's funding but failed to act up on it. The developer has stated it is no longer interested in that vision - a vision many people have invested several 100$ into. The game and PGI can't die fast enough, so that the Mechwarrior: Living Legends mod team has a chance on snatching up the IP (and code base - both games run on Crytek's cryengine).

    MWO is a tale of anger and betrayal. A tale of a developer after the quick money without remorse. A tale of alienating your entire fanbase through shitty features, crap communitcation and lies. And as every tale, it has a moral:

    Don't back shitty companies on Kickstarter, Jesus Fucking Christ.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
    • Brofist Brofist x 19
    ^ Top  
  2. mindx2 Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter Patron

    mindx2
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,912
    Location:
    Gazing at his slowly refilling game shelves ;-)
    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This was a Kickstarter game? If so, man they really threw their target audience "under the bus." :eek:
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    84,776
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  4. sea inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,698
    Though the specific points of this issue kind of escape me as I've never played the game, I can say as someone whose job is to do community management, that blaming the players is first on the List of Things to Never Do. Second is not to promise anything you can't or won't deliver. Third is if your game needs work to make it better, ask the community what they want before you go ahead with any changes, because they probably know the game better than you do.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. raw Arcane Patron

    raw
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    17,233
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    I have read that before making this post, so it definitely had an impact. :M Can't vent my brain yet, though it's a useful skill to have I agree. The gamefront article is also too long imo with lots of uneccessary information. It also pointed me to the call of duty twitter which was too awesome not to include.

    PGI has a history in that regard, which is why I have been :hmmm: ing them when I read that they went after the MWO IP. Remember this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Disgruntled Savant

    Disgruntled
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    400
    Ah MWO. The trainwreck I cant quite jump off of. I bought founders for this thing and it still hasnt progressed anywhere in a year. In fact its gone backwards graphically. You cant tell how much of a relief it is to see the revolt unfold, when you can see the warning markers back in 2012 only to be rescinded with blind praise by the fanboys on the forums. Now everyone has finally caught up and Piranha is in real trouble.
    Heres a good summary of the lies. Though my own take would list every time they promised community warfare and didnt meet the deadline.

    Show Spoiler

    [​IMG]



    Id be lying if I said I hated everything about the game. Still have fun now and again because theres little choice when it comes to mechs (mw:ll didnt do it for me).






    Now rolling the dice on Star Citizen, Ill die a little inside if that goes down the same route, though it surely cant get worse than MWO.:thumbsup:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • :( :( x 1
    • Fabulously Optimistic Fabulously Optimistic x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. raw Arcane Patron

    raw
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    17,233
    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    I had fun once^tm. I posted about the game here I think. But TPV is just killing it. That and graphical issues that they never really ironed out over the last year. (my laptop still only shows garbage when I get ingame). And the UI is just shit.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Absalom Guest

    Absalom
    Ugh I was almost at the threshold of getting over my disdain for MMO's to play this. Its for the best I guess


    Mechwarrior 5 looked so good :(
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Disgruntled Savant

    Disgruntled
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    400
    In some absurd backward manner Piranha has created an ecosystem where TPV is not a huge deal right now. They practically killed off the competitive scene and the game remains an inconsequential random deathmatch generator. Cant really ruin an awesome game if it wasnt awesome in the first place. (but it does kneecap any sliver of potential)

    Not to diminish the travesty of the situation. The disgusting dishonesty and cumulative fumbling are the main offenders in this case. They're deluded if they think TPV will bring anything to the game. A good amount of people were happy to continue throwing cash into this thing ignorant of PGIs glacial pace and general incompetence. Spitting on your golden geese for no good reason was a fuckup to the nth degree.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    33,367
    Location:
    Cell S-004
    MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Oh, a MechWarrior thread. Ahem, allow me...

    [​IMG]

    Should have switched to Armored Core or Heavy Gear ages ago bros.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • nice nice x 1
    • "It was Aliens" "It was Aliens" x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    84,776
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I love that gif
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    Out of all three of those points I would say that only the last one is usually upheld. The first two is modus operandi in the gaming industry and you should be cynical since a lot of studios has been inconsistent with their history.

    I would since after speaking some people that donated to Star Citizen it seems to me borderline on a cult with the idea that nothing is off with how funding is conducted or the project in general. It would not surprise me in the least if the game turned out to be shoddy and the guy turns tail and runs with the $$$.

    Also thought third person was common in Mech warrior games so not sure what the outrage is with that pov.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,868,850
    Location:
    Land of Rape & Honey ❤️
    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Everything is shit.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. sea inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,698
    To do otherwise doesn't make any sense to me. Blaming customers directly for your own faults isn't just misguided, it's basically insulting the people who keep you in business to begin with. Why would you ever do such a thing, if you are relying largely on the good will and faith of players to survive? Promising things you can't deliver is also common sense - the worst thing is to get someone's expectations up and let them down. Assuming you aren't grossly incompetent, you should have some sort of plan, firm release dates and schedules for things, etc., and it's not that hard to avoid saying anything specific until you have something specific to say.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,620
    Location:
    Australia
    Don't worry, heavy gear is kickstarting it's own shitty WoT knockoff.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    33,367
    Location:
    Cell S-004
    MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    I try not to think about it. :(
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    Welcome to VG industry which is filled with retardo designers and exec's.

    Lol you aren't refering to the actual Heavy Gear franchise like the games published by Activision as that would be a travesty.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,620
    Location:
    Australia
  19. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    This looked like it was going to fail as much as using tit milk for Ben & Jerries Ice Cream.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    33,367
    Location:
    Cell S-004
    MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    IIRC, the original pitch video didn't even mention single player, but talked only about e-sports.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Gerrard Arcane

    Gerrard
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    8,442
    r00fles!
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,192
    Heh, raw, so how's that crow taste?
     
    ^ Top  
  23. fizzelopeguss Arcane

    fizzelopeguss
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Messages:
    12,971
    Location:
    Equality Street.
    For a cryengine game i always thought the games graphics were absolute shite, like...a seriously shitty mod.
     
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.