My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

[Morkar Left]

Not really.

A keep is a retarded feature as it goes against the very idea of adventuring. It doesn't add much, doesn't give anything you didn't have before (you're a lord of every dungeon and keep you cleared), and overall it's nothing but an ego booster.

The keep is just badly implemented. It could have purpose and even fit into the chars intentions to seek a fortune in the new country. The problem is it is completely standing outside of the story.
You would think that at least the local aristocracy would have something against someone settle down and start to collect taxes. There would be plenty of opportuniies to use the factions system for gathering support of your legitimacy, making trade deals, intrigue etc.
Instead it's completely selfcontained.

A crafting system is a fairly useful and logical feature aimed to improve your gear and lessen the reliance on random items, which is important in a game with narrow weapon specialization. PoE's system isn't great or perfect but it's functional and useful, which is more than can be said about many other crafting systems.

I think the crafting system in PoE sucks. Currently it's an overpowered 24/7 instant delivery shop with extreme discounts for wishlist tailor-made items.

 

[Malpercio]

I don't think you are wrong felipepepe, but on other hand I feel like a lot of your concerns (especially regarding C&C) can also be applied to IE games.

I mean, look at BG2. Does it matter to whom you side during chapter III ultimately? What quest ultimately changes much in term of C&C? Does race influence anything other than locking you out some romances and maybe some minor NPC interaction? I'd argue that PoE is certainly much more reactive than BG2 in these regards.

 

[Lhynn]

I don't think you are wrong felipepepe, but on other hand I feel like a lot of your concerns (especially regarding C&C) can also be applied to IE games.

To a lesser extent

I mean, look at BG2. Does it matter to whom you side during chapter III ultimately?

It does, different magical items and different quests depending on which side you pick, plus different interactions.

What quest ultimately changes much in term of C&C?

All strongholds are optional, so a fucking lot, it may not have deep consequences that change how the world revolves around you, but its not needed, as long as the matter is concluded in a different way.

Does race influence anything other than locking you out some romances and maybe some minor NPC interaction?

Nope, but then again, races dont have so much significance in toril, no one gives a shit if you are an elf or a human, but viconia being a drow gets brought up often enough that you can see it does matter, if you could pick drow race and didnt get any similar interactions it would have been shitty. As it is locking out godlikes would have been a smarter move, would have made for a tighter game than this shit thats closer to DA:O bloodmage levels of shittiness.

I'd argue that PoE is certainly much more reactive than BG2 in these regards.

I wouldnt say poe is that far off, but reactivity was definitely better executed in BG2, much more satisfactory and with more interesting possibilities, and in the end thats all that matters.

 

[Athelas]

Of course PoE has more C&C. It has a full-fledged reputation and disposition system and your attributes (and to a lesser extent class and race) color your interactions with the world. No contest there.

Though you could argue BG2's class-specific strongholds put it over PoE.

 

[felipepepe]

Honestly, BG2 doesn't even try to be reactive. And that's ok, not all RPGs must have that kind of system. But from the moment that you add stuff like [race], [attribute] and [reputation] choices in your system, you better do it right. PoE is very adept at promising at lot and delivering way less. Just look at the hearing at the end of Act 2. All those choices, faction allegiances, all those checks, and it amounts to fucking nothing.

Besides, choosing the Thieves Guild or the Vampires in BG2's Chapter 3 changes the game much more than choosing one of the three factions in PoE's Act 2 (longer quest chains, various unique dialogs & items), and will even alter your allies when you attack Bodhi on Chapter 6.

The other "big" choice in PoE is Roedric's Keep, but BG2 has the Drow City, that's way longer and more complex, full of manipulation and backstabbing.

 

[SoupNazi]

Of course PoE has more C&C. It has a full-fledged reputation and disposition system and your attributes (and to a lesser extent class and race) color your interactions with the world. No contest there.

Those two things are fluff, not C&C.

 

[Ninjerk]

Of course PoE has more C&C. It has a full-fledged reputation and disposition system and your attributes (and to a lesser extent class and race) color your interactions with the world. No contest there.

Those two things are fluff, not C&C.

What is C&C?

 

[HiddenX]

I agree with felipepepe.

I like the story, presentation and GUI of the game, but combat simply sucks.

In act 1 there were a few challenging fights and I had to use all of my equipment, weapons and tactics to win them -> GOOD!

In act 2 (50 hours into the game) my party is already so overpowered, that I rarely have to use any spells/tactics besides some healing in combat (I'm playing on hard difficulty).

There's way too much (magical) loot in the game. And they are rarely roleplaying options to avoid combat with bribing, talking, etc.

The game forgives you everything in character/party/faction building, no hard choices, no distinct classes - less fun. No need for a re-play.

 

[Lhynn]

Of course PoE has more C&C. It has a full-fledged reputation and disposition system and your attributes (and to a lesser extent class and race) color your interactions with the world. No contest there.

Quantity wise? yeah sure. But ill take 1 meaningful choice over 100 small choices that amount to nothing really.

 

[Ninjerk]

This game is, ironically, more fun solo than party.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I get it. You like your C&C in RPGs. Hence you are able to excuse the shitty fucking combat in Fallout. I love customization and adventure, thus I'm able to excuse the basic dialogue of Baldur's Gate.

Baldur had really shitty character customization.

Adventure wasn't much to speak of either.

 

[Kel]

I want the non-linear epicness of Fallout 2 and/or Arcanum improved upon.

No one gives a shit about your wants. The game was sold as a IE successor. It has many faults, but not being Arcanum isn't one of them.
Wait for the Arcanum spiritual successor to bitch about your "non-linear epicness"

Because you would consider BG2 to be linear? You poor millennial.

Oh please, enlighten us. Tell us about bg2 amazing non linear quests that can be completed in so many different ways, about branching dialogues with dozens of replays depending on your class, race and skills, and of course about different endings.

I don't think non-linear means what you think it means.

Different ways to do a quest =/= non linear. God, this decline exposure cancer is worse than I thought.

 

[Ellef]

Reading through the thread, the only ones who say its equal or better than BG2 are those who either hate BG and/or hate pausing/non TB games. Pillars is the angry kid who grew up to hate his parents who only wanted the best for him

 

[Hatred]

My two cents: I am more interested in reading this review and the subsequent discussion than I am in finishing PoE. The broken leveling and boring combat has totally drained me.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

PoE will be the first elegantly designed, good RPG in the history of the genre

I never said this.

My prediction is that a great game will be delivered in December for Rogueys everywhere.

 

[Lord Andre]

I still hold to the idea that an expansion ala G2NotR could bring the game on par with BG2 and probably even surpass it. Add some more content to wilderness areas, redesign some of the copy/pasta encounters, add a few more tie-ins to the main plot, give the crafting/stronghold some love and it's done. Maybe add a faction ala the Water Mages...and now I'm just jacking off...

Still a G2NotR type expansion would do wonders for the game.

Edit: On the off chance that anybody from Obsidian might read this thread replace G2NotR with Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall - Director's cut edition. Don't really expect anybody at Obsidian's ever touched a Gothic game.

 

[RK47]

This game is, ironically, more fun solo than party.

Tried it. Thanks for killing this game for me, you son of a bitch.

 

[Ninjerk]

This game is, ironically, more fun solo than party.

Tried it. Thanks for killing this game for me, you son of a bitch.

I didn't know who exactly would catch on, but I knew it would the right person. It could have only been you.

 

[Ivan]

Finishing up Pillars (act 3 pit)

Thinking of starting Bladur's Gate. Should I skip the first and jump straight into 2?

 

[Lhynn]

Finishing up Pillars (act 3 pit)

Thinking of starting Bladur's Gate. Should I skip the first and jump straight into 2?

If youve already played the first one before? then sure, go ahead, if you havent, just use BGT and only explore what you feel like exploring, if you dont force yourself to do shit you dont want to its a p. sweet game, but with an extremely slow start.

 

[Ellef]

I'd only recommend skipping BG1 to those who don't really like the genre and might get scared off entirely.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Finishing up Pillars (act 3 pit)

Thinking of starting Bladur's Gate. Should I skip the first and jump straight into 2?

I'm with you here. The only IE game I played was PST. Now I think about playing BG/BG2 or IWD/IWD2. What should I start with?

 

[Kiste]

Finishing up Pillars (act 3 pit)

Thinking of starting Bladur's Gate. Should I skip the first and jump straight into 2?

I'd play the first one for the sake of completeness but be preperared to be somewhat bored by it. BG1 can be tedious at times, the story is not particularly interesting and combat kinda stinks most of the time. Despite all the pissing and moaning by some perpetually malcontent Codexers, Pillars is vastly superior on every single level. If you expect BG1 to be similarly entertaining, you will probably be disappointed. Personally, it took me three attempts to force my way through that game. BG2 is very, very much improved.

 

[hiver]

It is better then BG 1, but has a worse antagonist.
It is better then IWD, which is what it should be compared against the most.

It is worse then BG2 despite having more C&C and reactivity because the BG2 gameplay is slicker, combat mechanics better and encounter design more interesting. I would say BG2 story is also better, though simpler, and the villain was of course superb as an opponent and a character.
So on the whole, even though going just by features seems like PoE would win, it fails to be a better overall game, because it doesnt use its internal parts as well (or in fact uses sevearl really badly) as BG2 does with its own.

 

[sser]

My primary problems with the game are...

Nonsensical writing. Characters are written pretty well, but there's a bunch of absolutely dumb shit happening above that level (read: plot, story, motivations, yadda yadda). This really isn't that unusual in games so it doesn't bother me that much.

Easy as fuck. I'm on Path of the Damned and am still having trouble finding a challenge. 95% of the spells don't really have any punch to them. I find myself leaning on buffs/debuffs because they always land, whereas damaging spells are far and few between. And then the rest of the 5% are blatantly broken shit like Paralyze, Petrify, or Charm. I Charmed a motherfucking ghost boss. What the hell is up with that? And I frequently "frighten" creatures that are undead? There's a lot of stupid crap going on with the combat all the time. The further I get into the game, the less I like any of the scenarios, too. Like others have mentioned, there's a repetitious nature to it, and there are no real set pieces. I mean, you don't have to go the Blackguards puzzle-route, but goddam, there is little going on combat design-wise. I think with RPGs it's really fucking easy to mask poor scenario design, but honestly PoE is the equivalent of a Mario game where there are no gaps in the floor or blocks to jump on and all you face is a long line of goombas. Totally agree with most people here. Where's the effort?

The world isn't really that responsive. I've never been the biggest BG2 fan, but it does do one thing well which is draw you into that high fantasy world. I liked that if I started some shit in town people would come by to tell me to cut it out. I'm beginning to wonder if the no city-magic laws of Amn were actually intended to keep narrative structure, maintaining one's suspension of disbelief. I say that because in PoE I'm throwing fucking fireballs, indoors, in a bar-fight, and nobody says a fucking word about it when it's all said and done and it's really noticeable and kinda pulls you out of the experience. This goes along with the general lack of reactivity mentioned by others.

No real motivation or villain or consequence or much of anything. I really enjoy the lore and setting of PoE, but what the fuck am I doing in it? I've been in Defiance Bay for hours doing this or that bullshit task and nothing is really unfolding. Again, not a big BG2 fan, but it did have you chasing a villain, and it did have villains kinda fucking with you. You had dragons fooling you into killing knights, djinn doing magic tricks, you had some uber-enemies sprinkled around the world sitting in doomsday coffins, and great monsters being worshipped by cultists. Like there's so much shit going on in BG2 even off the main plot of chasing the Big Bad Wizard. PoE is mostly, uh, well there's little feeling of consequence or threats. I'm not gonna run off spoilers left and right, but at least in Defiance Bay I've already come across a few things that I felt for sure would have consequences but they never did. I'm sure the exact same thinking behind the weak-ass spell system is the exact same thinking behind the lack of strong villains in this game. Everybody's pulling punches. There are no BG2-esque, There are people in this world far more powerful than you, stuff going on. Nah, I'm just beating up shapeshifting drug dealers (wut) and child murderers. When a bandit eyed my party up and down, glancing over what was for sure a night-time nuclear light show of magical effects, all he had to say was, Nobody touches my blade and survives!!

After dispatching him and his presumably reluctant gang in a matter of seconds, all I could think was... where the fuck is my equal? Like who here is bossing me around? I think that's what's missing.