My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

[Multi-headed Cow]

It's very weird to point out some of the silly NPC stuff from BG2, when the core of POE is just so retarded. You have soulnados, soul transplants, soul depreciation, soul amputations, soul rocks, glittering souls, SPESHUL souls... It's like someone at Obsidian asked his mentally handicapped 12 year old to come up with a list of 35 soul related ideas and then crammed it all into the game.

It's also worth mentioning that there are 25 potential party member NPCs in BG1 and 16 in BG2 (17 in ToB). If you don't like Minsc or Aerie you aren't as limited on options as you are in PoE, assuming you don't want to say fuck it and roll mute meat mounds. So if an NPC offends you you can more easily give 'em the boot and get someone else that does the same (Or nearly the same) basic thing.

And in fact party composition matters more in the BG series as they'll fight you and one another based on your/their actions. Like if you don't go to the gnoll stronghold fast enough after picking up Minsc he'll tell you to go to hell and he'll leave the party. And without fully spoiling, there's a traitor in your midst in PoE but he won't even try to kill you ('least, no one I've talked to has had it happen. Maybe it requires certain circumstances). There's also a traitor in BG2, and by god he actually starts combat and will fight to the death. PoE characters just vomit exposition and occasional packs of XP, you never even have to consider what anything you say or do will do in regard to your companions.

 

[Sensuki]

The spoiler I read on 4chan about the traitor was actually correct.

 

[AN4RCHID]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The only thing that saves it is a massive multilevel dungeon with with multiple solutions and a dozen or so named NPCs, OK I guess without that it would only have a single dungeon, two fully developed companion NPCs, an Inn, a blacksmith, and a handful of sidequests. Yep Obsidian really dropped the ball on content density in this tiny frontier village.

 

[Hatred]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The quest to go and kill Raedric wasn't really that good. Some random chump coming and asking you to do it after he had failed /meh. Would have been better to go and kill him to protect Eder or the preggers chick or just to stop him from making a better tree .... random chump makes no sense when you already have other reasons to kill him.

 

[Ninjerk]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The only thing that saves it is a massive multilevel dungeon with with multiple solutions and a dozen or so named NPCs, OK I guess without that it would only have a single dungeon, two fully developed companion NPCs, an Inn, a blacksmith, and a handful of sidequests. Yep Obsidian really dropped the ball on content density in this tiny frontier village.

They're not wrong. Act 1's content is embarrassingly meagre compared to Act 2.

 

[MTwolves]

Wouldn't it have been cool if you could actually taken over Raedric's hold? Or the Crucible Knights' stronghold? Or the Dozens' stronghold?

 

[Hatred]

Also the C&C in Raedrics hold was just abysmal. All of the guards in there just instantly flip allegiance. The sellswords I can undertand but the paladins and priests ? You don't have any say who gets to be in charge there either. Kolsc or Raedric. I would rather give the keep to the chef I saved at the inn. Also it would have been nice to just take over a working strong hold instead of a money sink(that doesn't even work). At least collecting taxes would make sense from Raedrics Hold.
Would give all of this a pass if the combat was fun.
edit:failure to spell

 

[Commissar Draco]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The quest to go and kill Raedric wasn't really that good. Some random chump coming and asking you to do it after he had failed /meh. Would have been better to go and kill him to protect Eder or the preggers chick or just to stop him from making a better tree .... random chump makes no sense when you already have other reasons to kill him.

Well unless you are Eothas priest, cipher maybe or traveling with prego woman/dog/yourself you have no RP reasons to kill any of them except the fat loot which is quickly surpassed by first city or ER levels you visit, You come to valley hear your land grand was annulled and move on; If Absurdian and Sawyer were not such SJW those days we would not end up with many such black/white quests and pushing XXI century L1beral Kwan agenda onto XVI century setting. I came to castle talked to him and found out he was not responsible for hallowing and took his offer to kill his cousin for lying and trying to manipulate my PC.... Even Edar was not and glad he moved out of this shithole... And taking over the Raedric keep would be great part of game with aditional quests like making Duc/Erl accepting your new tittle, fending off claimant CK2 style and whats over... and its funny to see Thayn/Baron Castle so much more powerful and defensible than keep of the Count/Erl... All this in what is still feudal setting no less which is another cause they have guns and cannons which means all Castles are absolute and they should start to build star forts instead.

 

[Athelas]

For one thing, POE has no consistency of tone and scale. The first map starts off with diarrhea and ends in soulnado.

Normally I would argue this on its own merits, but in the rest of your post you're still defending BG. You know, the game where you can casually do chores in between fighting off the attempts on your life in Candlekeep. I still fail to see what's wrong with a mundane event escalating into a dangerous situation. It's the basis for a huge amount of fiction.

The first town starts of grimdark with bodies being hung in the central tree, then you have a quest involving drunks harassing the miller for grain... It's really disconnected,

The drunks are harassing the miller because of the blight, you know the same blight that made the ruler hang those bodies in the tree? The only disconnected quest is the bear quest, but even that's there to introduce your soul power.

It's very weird to point out some of the silly NPC stuff from BG2, when the core of POE is just so retarded.

A huge part, arguably the biggest part of the BG series consists of whacky stuff. If anything, PoE's story is hurt by its wanting to reconcile this 'BG-ness' with the new world.

You have soulnados, soul transplants, soul depreciation, soul amputations, soul rocks, glittering souls, SPESHUL souls

Gee, it's almost like the people in this world are occupied with the things that are unique in this setting. Would you rather have generica like 'kill this awesome dragon?' There's plenty of that in the game too, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

 

[AN4RCHID]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The only thing that saves it is a massive multilevel dungeon with with multiple solutions and a dozen or so named NPCs, OK I guess without that it would only have a single dungeon, two fully developed companion NPCs, an Inn, a blacksmith, and a handful of sidequests. Yep Obsidian really dropped the ball on content density in this tiny frontier village.

They're not wrong. Act 1's content is embarrassingly meagre compared to Act 2.

Technically, Od Nua is in Act 1 so it has more content than the rest of the game put together

 

[Ninjerk]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The only thing that saves it is a massive multilevel dungeon with with multiple solutions and a dozen or so named NPCs, OK I guess without that it would only have a single dungeon, two fully developed companion NPCs, an Inn, a blacksmith, and a handful of sidequests. Yep Obsidian really dropped the ball on content density in this tiny frontier village.

They're not wrong. Act 1's content is embarrassingly meagre compared to Act 2.

Technically, Od Nua is in Act 1 so it has more content than the rest of the game put together

Oh, you cleared Od Nua in Act 1?

 

[Gay-Lussac]

In the good ol' days of the Codex you IE fags would have been called out for being popamole, so I would be very careful with claims that everybody who likes PoE is not a hardcore player.

My point was that hardcore IE fans would be disappointed, not hardcore players in general. PoE never stood a chance with those that hate IE games and RTwP.

Also, I never praised Baldur's Gate 2 as the pinnacle of RPG design. But it's a 17-year old game that's still vastly superior to its spiritual successor. BG2 is unrivaled in encounter design, magic battles and itemization. All these are missing from PoE. Furthermore, BG2 was way more replayable. Not the pinnacle of replayable games, but miles ahead of PoE. The stronghold system in BG2, for example, is indeed limited, but that game had the De'Arnise Keep, the Planar Sphere, the Druid Grove, Umar Hills, the Thieves Guild', the Cleric's temple, the Radiant Heart HQ AND the theater company. EIGHT fucking different locations you could own, some very simple but others complex. It's definitely much more interesting than PoE's keep, that plays exactly the same every single time.

I haven't played PoE yet, but I count BG 2 as maybe my favorite RPG ever, along with Bloodlines, and I replayed both to death. It seems a bit unfair to use the strongholds in BG 2 as an "example" of replayability, because that's pretty much the only relevant instance where your class choice impacts the gameplay outside of combat. The world barely reacted to your race choice as well, outside of romance choices and a few minor dialog reactions (and I'm struggling to even remember any, but I assume there's at least a few in the Underdark and such).

Replayability in BG 2 came from picking up different companions and trying out new classes for different party compositions (and experiencing the different companions reactions and sidequests), taking in some of the content that was exclusive to a certain path (Bodhi x Thieves Guild) and solving quests in a different manner where the game allowed it (and it didn't allow much). Usually all you were granted was a binary choice between being good or evil, and being evil was often quite awkward as it got punished by the reputation system and left you out of quest rewards in some cases.

So I can't imagine PoE being worse in this aspect at all, at least not for the reasons you mentioned. Guess I'll find out when I fix my PC and get rid of the toaster I'm typing this message with.

 

[Irxy]

Very good review, I agree with most of it.

And to the list of useless/undeveloped mechanics I would also add setting traps and crafting of scrolls/potions.

 

[MicoSelva]

I agree with almost everything you said, felipepepe, but I still see this game as a much needed step in the right direction - which is a different direction than where Dragon Age (current 'state fo the art' fantasy party-based RPG series) is going. I am counting on the Sequel Improvement Effect (TM) for PoE 2 - Obsidian will have a much better starting point for that game (technology, assets, setting, etc.) and they can focus on making good content. I mean compare dungeons from (vanilla) BG1 and those from BG2 - the difference in quality is just huge.

Also, the game is streamlined compared to IE games, for better or worse. I like some of the changes this streamlining brought (infinite stash - love it with my whole simulationist heart), but it does come with shallowing some of the stuff we remember.

However, complaining that Web works differently than in IE games is somewhat weird. It is not like there is not a 'hold' effect in the game (it is called paralyse). There are even AoE spells causing it. But this effect is more difficult to inflict than in D&D - which is fair for something so powerful IMO.

 

[Darth Roxor]

pillars of eternity is a much needed step in the right direction for obsidian

 

[Ellef]

Considering their latest games being South Park and Dungeon Siege it's hard to step anywhere but forward.

 

[Ellef]

I hope they spend the sequels really working on everything combat related. I don't give a shit about engagement anymore as long as I can remove it, but encounter,enemy, dungeon design all need drastic improvements.

 

[felipepepe]

However, complaining that Web works differently than in IE games is somewhat weird.

I'm not complaining that it works differently than in IE games, I'm complaining that it doesn't work at all.

The spiders in IE games would throw web at you, stuck your party to the ground and go directly to your casters - phase spiders would even teleport there - while your fighters were unable to do anything. In PoE it just slows everyone down, it's never used together high-mobility enemies and the engagement system alone guarantees that your tank will still locks enemies down, since ALL fights in PoE are frontal assaults.

 

[Athelas]

Grease Slicken is the new Web.

By the way, GameSpot review is out: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/pillars-of-eternity-review/1900-6416091/

Ultimately, Pillars of Eternity does not benefit from its inconsistent acting, nor do its characters inspire the same kinds of emotional connections that Dragon Age: Origins does.

 

[Kz3r0]

Considering their latest games being South Park and Dungeon Siege it's hard to step anywhere but forward.

South Park has better mechanics than PilloE, yes, I said it.

 

[AN4RCHID]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The only thing that saves it is a massive multilevel dungeon with with multiple solutions and a dozen or so named NPCs, OK I guess without that it would only have a single dungeon, two fully developed companion NPCs, an Inn, a blacksmith, and a handful of sidequests. Yep Obsidian really dropped the ball on content density in this tiny frontier village.

They're not wrong. Act 1's content is embarrassingly meagre compared to Act 2.

Technically, Od Nua is in Act 1 so it has more content than the rest of the game put together

Oh, you cleared Od Nua in Act 1?

well, I didn't clear Raedric's place in Act 1 either, but then, I wasn't complaining about not having enough content. No argument that the game opens up once you get to Defiance Bay, but there's a decent amount of side stuff around the beginning like Temple of Eothas, Raedric, the Anslog cave, and as much of the Endless Paths as you can stomach. First act is also way shorter in terms of crit path, so it's not gonna have the sheer numbers of side quests.

 

[ArchAngel]

lots of great bg nostalgia, straight from the man who always talked about how much he hated baldur's gate

BG fucking sucked. Still does.

Well it suck a lot less than say a game like Age of Decadence.

 

[ArchAngel]

The OP brings to light a lot of good points, but also ignores that BG games had almost no reactivity to your class/race/sex or alignment. Quest C&C was also almost non-existent and most quests didn't offer more than one way to do them.
Still, everything else still make both Bg1 and Bg2 superior games to PoE and PoE is still better than any RPG I played since BG2:ToB.

 

[Kuurth]

One problem of this game is the itemization, the uniques feel underwhelming and the enchantment system is weird. What's the point of a unique if i can enchant better items. Another nitpick is the enchanted spear from the ruin, at least we should be able to choose the weapon, what if i don't spec my hero for spears, it's just another item to stash and sell. The only unique items that i felt had some power are the Stilleto from the Gilded Vale's blacksmith and the rewarded bow from The Dozens. Gibbing enemies with jolting touch is kinda fun.

 

[Roguey]

The spiders in IE games would throw web at you, stuck your party to the ground and go directly to your casters

Not without a mod they didn't.