My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

[Immortal]

The spiders in IE games would throw web at you, stuck your party to the ground and go directly to your casters

Not without a mod they didn't.

Actually they did without a mod.. Maybe "going for your casters" is a stretch.. but sword spiders / the blink spiders would target range occasionally, not because they were range but because when they blinked / haste ran for your group they would just happened to end up next to that character.

Again though, when did BG 1 come out? What game pre-dated BG1 where they could "learn from those mistakes".. Sawyer has gone on record saying the AI in BG 2 / IWD 2 is superior / more sophisticated then PoE's because of a lack of time to build it out.

 

[Vault Dweller]

lots of great bg nostalgia, straight from the man who always talked about how much he hated baldur's gate

BG fucking sucked. Still does.

Well it suck a lot less than say a game like Age of Decadence.

:gasp:

 

[Seaking4]

But spiders were still a huge trash enemy. I only remember one fight where I had trouble with spiders and that's because there was a web trap on the floor. Not because they casted/threw web.

 

[J_C]

Again though, when did BG 1 come out? What game pre-dated BG1 where they could "learn from those mistakes".. Sawyer has gone on record saying the AI in BG 2 / IWD 2 is superior / more sophisticated then PoE's because of a lack of time to build it out.

Good AI is hard to program, and Sawyer himself stated that an interesting/diverse enemy group composition >>>sophisticated individual AI. It is a waste of time to put too much resource into a complex AI in a game like this because they don't add that much to the fun. The IE games withtout SCS had quiet a basic AI, whatever some people say.

 

[Darth Roxor]

and Sawyer himself stated that an interesting/diverse enemy group composition >>>sophisticated individual AI.

and then he failed to do both

 

[Bubbles]

But he didn't fail to do either.

 

[Hatred]

But he didn't fail to do either.

I'm pretty curious. Which of the two do you feel he did ? Ive spent the last 45 minutes trying to work it out for myself.

 

[MrMarbles]

Oddly, the systems logic isn't bad per se; you can enchant weapons and armor with a few bonuses, while unique named items usually come with unique, more powerful enchantments. What's unexplainable is how the designers used the system.

I agree with most of Felipepepepes points, especially this one. I just don't understand Obsidian's thought process. How hard would it be to include more interesting item effects/recipes to be added while exploring/removing some of the endlessly generic magic items you find? Maybe they could have diverted some money from the budget for writing, spellchecking, translating and then spellchecking again walls of texts for every asshat npc in the game.

Also those poll results. 2/3 think that PoE is better than either BG1 or BG2?

 

[Sensuki]

I would say it just goes with following a certain tradition of games. To be honest I can't remember interesting items from the NWN games either (etc)

 

[Haba]

Now what we really need is a BG2 to PoE's BG.

 

[Lhynn]

I would say it just goes with following a certain tradition of games. To be honest I can't remember interesting items from the NWN games either (etc)

Now thats just being wrong, itemization in nwn could be much much better, it was all in the hands of the designer. I can however agree that OC was shaite.

 

[hiver]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The quest to go and kill Raedric wasn't really that good. Some random chump coming and asking you to do it after he had failed /meh. Would have been better to go and kill him to protect Eder or the preggers chick or just to stop him from making a better tree .... random chump makes no sense when you already have other reasons to kill him.

It wasnt that good but it was the best stuff in the Gilded Vale and first act of the game.

Its not some random chump, but someone leading a rebellion against a lord who went crazy in a situation of some supernatural plague.
You are going there to stop him from making another tree, sorta ... although that never happens actually if you dont do anything, - i think.

Although other stuff could have been added.

There is a nice scene of villagers taking down the bodies from the tree after youve done the good deed.
But there is nothing to do with the fact you cleared Eothas temple, you cant tell that to anyone, nothing happens because of it, and generally the place doesnt much react to that, for example.

Also the C&C in Raedrics hold was just abysmal. All of the guards in there just instantly flip allegiance. The sellswords I can undertand but the paladins and priests ? You don't have any say who gets to be in charge there either. Kolsc or Raedric. I would rather give the keep to the chef I saved at the inn. Also it would have been nice to just take over a working strong hold instead of a money sink(that doesn't even work). At least collecting taxes would make sense from Raedrics Hold.
Would give all of this a pass if the combat was fun.
edit:failure to spell

The guards and priests were in service of the lord of the castle. And this was an internal struggle, Kolsc was noble and family, so it makes sense they would stay employed for the lord of the castle, especially in such a dire situation, especially since new lord is less crazy then the one before.

 

[Hatred]

Good points. Those priests and Paladins are still some special kind of flippy floppy bitch though. You either stand by the murdering bastard or you end him yourself. What kind of a weak kneed lackwit just stands around letting the 'Lord of the Keep' do whatever he likes. The Paladins I cannot buy just folding no matter what because wasnt the whole thing with Paladins supposed to be some inner fire that burnt like crazy. Driven people don't flip flop.
Adding an option to string the backers up to the tree might have been fun ....

 

[hiver]

Those priests and Paladins are still some special kind of flippy floppy bitch though.

Arent they always...

No i dont think you can say they flip floped, really. Its just a more realistic take. And of course, that happens if you dont take the frontal assault approach so it is your actions that enable such quick relatively bloodless takeover.

Of course if thats not to your liking you can always make the deal with Raedric and kill Kolsc instead.
There probably would be more people on the tree later, thats easy to add.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes.

Except its not "run and get me a potion". Its run and get me a potion while getting tons of exposure to one of overarching themes of the entire setting, which is the hollowborn children.

Every quest ever made is completely disconnected from overall plot and theme, if you deliberately strip it of the context and just look at the task that needs to be performed.

Fallout? Run and get me water processing chip. Scrub quest, shit writing, not connected to overall plot and theme.

 

[Hatred]

Those priests and Paladins are still some special kind of flippy floppy bitch though.

Arent they always...

No i dont think you can say they flip floped, really. Its just a more realistic take. And of course, that happens if you dont take the frontal assault approach so it is your actions that enable such quick relatively bloodless takeover.

Of course if thats not to your liking you can always make the deal with Raedric and kill Kolsc instead.
There probably would be more people on the tree later, thats easy to add.

I still feel like the flip flopped. If I can ever bring myself to play this again/start another game I will be ending the life of every single thing that moves in that keep and probably a few inanimate objects to boot.
Your reasoning isn't entirely bad but overall I think its more about OE not really putting in decent C&C and less about this actually being what makes the most sense. At the very least you should concede that having only Koslc and Raedric to choose from is total crap. There is zero reason for this imo.

 

[hiver]

True. I was just saying.
Well Koslc and Raedric just have those roles, this is approach more close to the AoD style where you are a smaller player, not someone who takes over castles and rules a part of a country. Oh wait... yeah but, that one you get "magically", i could at least imagine more down to earth style before that.

 

[Morkar Left]

Oddly, the systems logic isn't bad per se; you can enchant weapons and armor with a few bonuses, while unique named items usually come with unique, more powerful enchantments. What's unexplainable is how the designers used the system.

I agree with most of Felipepepepes points, especially this one. I just don't understand Obsidian's thought process. How hard would it be to include more interesting item effects/recipes to be added while exploring/removing some of the endlessly generic magic items you find? Maybe they could have diverted some money from the budget for writing, spellchecking, translating and then spellchecking again walls of texts for every asshat npc in the game.

Also those poll results. 2/3 think that PoE is better than either BG1 or BG2?

Just limit the enchantment slots to 6 points while the special unique items keep the 12 slots. That way you make sure that the unique items will always be more powerful and therefore more interesting to obtain. Additinally you can allow +2 additional slots up to +6 total when taking special class abilities or talents. That means if you really want to create powerful items on your own you can do that too but it comes with a price.

 

[hiver]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes.

Except its not "run and get me a potion". Its run and get me a potion while getting tons of exposure to one of overarching themes of the entire setting, which is the hollowborn children.
Every quest ever made is completely disconnected from overall plot and theme, if you deliberately strip it of the context and just look at the task that needs to be performed.
Fallout? Run and get me water processing chip. Scrub quest, shit writing, not connected to overall plot and theme.

No, i get that but its still just a run get me a potion where you bee line to a npc and kill some kobolds.
I wasnt intentionally leaving the context out, as a bit of that context can be found in all side quests in GV, but... the argument is that those are underwhelming and more should have been done to weave the story through better sidequests. And more castles and fortresses like Rc hold and stuff.

And, in Fallout, you cant bee line to water chip buddy, that just gets you starting to explore.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

No, i get that but its still just a run get me a potion where you bee line to a npc and kill some kobolds.
I wasnt intentionally leaving the context out, as a bit of that context can be found in all side quests in GV, but... the argument is that those are underwhelming and more should have been done to weave the story through better sidequests. And more castles and fortresses like Rc hold and stuff.

Right, that I can get on board with, and it applies pretty much to entirety of the main plot. I still can't decide if they've simply made crappy main plot without much of a hook, or if its by design to keep the game less driven my urgency of the story and more exploration based.

 

[Hatred]

Yo Hiver. I want to ask you something that has nothing at all to do with this forum but cannot seem to find anyway to send you a PM. There anything I can do about that ?

 

[Ninjerk]

No, Roshan is right, Gilded vale is very disappointing in terms of quests alone (run get me a potion) and in terms of those quests being connected to the overall plot and themes. The only thing that saves it is Raedric Hold in that general area.

The only thing that saves it is a massive multilevel dungeon with with multiple solutions and a dozen or so named NPCs, OK I guess without that it would only have a single dungeon, two fully developed companion NPCs, an Inn, a blacksmith, and a handful of sidequests. Yep Obsidian really dropped the ball on content density in this tiny frontier village.

They're not wrong. Act 1's content is embarrassingly meagre compared to Act 2.

Technically, Od Nua is in Act 1 so it has more content than the rest of the game put together

Oh, you cleared Od Nua in Act 1?

well, I didn't clear Raedric's place in Act 1 either, but then, I wasn't complaining about not having enough content. No argument that the game opens up once you get to Defiance Bay, but there's a decent amount of side stuff around the beginning like Temple of Eothas, Raedric, the Anslog cave, and as much of the Endless Paths as you can stomach. First act is also way shorter in terms of crit path, so it's not gonna have the sheer numbers of side quests.

 

[Old Hans]

this game has a weird chapter 1. There's lots of content, but its all side quest stuff. It sort of deflates after the tutorial and you just sort of wander around doing odd jobs until you remember you needed to be somewhere.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

It sort of deflates after the tutorial and you just sort of wander around doing odd jobs until you remember you needed to be somewhere.

"OH FUCK, I FORGOT TO TAKE MY MEDICINE!"

And thus the Watcher died of dysentery.

The End

 

[Morkar Left]

He isn't really sick. It's part of the story.