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My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

Pillars of Eternity is


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NotAGolfer

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Haha, nice, I knew this would eventually come down whether people think PoE or BG2 is better. The thing is, when people think of BG2, they think of it with all the ToB crap added in. I wonder how may others will find PoE preferable once it gets xpac content (new talents, items, maybe even classes and companions, more dungeons, etc..). People forget how many items got added in to BG2 with ToB or that Watcher's Keep was from ToB.
Wut?!
ToB was a boring slog, I never include that when I think about muh precious BG2.

about replayability:
That automatically results in builds being unique gameplay-wise and the story/gameworld really reacting to your choices.
It was already limited in BG2 (to trying out different builds and different party compositions) but felipepepe's critique makes it sound like there is none to be found here.
 

lurker3000

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BG2 doesn't have a crafting system, can we not have this apples & oranges argument about something that doesn't really matter that much anyway

The items you made it BG2 mattered a lot.

Anyway the PoE crafting system is pointless and probably took resource away from far more interesting things. It was a stupid stretch goal that turned into a stupid game mechanic.
 

Shevek

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Haha, nice, I knew this would eventually come down whether people think PoE or BG2 is better. The thing is, when people think of BG2, they think of it with all the ToB crap added in. I wonder how may others will find PoE preferable once it gets xpac content (new talents, items, maybe even classes and companions, more dungeons, etc..). People forget how many items got added in to BG2 with ToB or that Watcher's Keep was from ToB.
Wut?!
ToB was a boring slog, I never include that when I think about muh precious BG2.
Maybe not you, but someone in this thread already used it when comparing BG2's dungeons to PoE's.
 

Grunker

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BG2 doesn't have a crafting system, can we not have this apples & oranges argument about something that doesn't really matter that much anyway

'Crafting system' is just a theoretical construct. The substance is how the two games handle itemization. BG2 wins handily here.
Eh? A theoretical construct?

The purpose of a crafting system is to let you improve your equipment. There is nothing theoretical about it. PoE has one and it's fairly decent. BG2 doesn't have one, period.

I pointed out once already how this is an obvious fallacy. What you're saying is "games with unified crafting systems > games without unified crafting systems." The fact is that the crafting system of PoE is superflous and boring. Meanwhile, you claim:

VD said:
The purpose of a crafting system is to let you improve your equipment.

it'slikethatthinggrunkerwastalkingabout:

Grunker said:
The substance is how the two games handle itemization.

And again, BG2's solution is engaging, well-sunk into the lore and feels incredibly useful and therefore compelling.

Haha, nice, I knew this would eventually come down whether people think PoE or BG2 is better.

Nobody is really claiming that PoE is better than BG2 ITT.

VD is at least claiming they are comparable.
 

SCO

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ToB fortunately added valuable content tot the first part too, such as Watcher's Keep or more crafting. But not so much or so interesting it revolutionized the game or anything.
And of course, the ToB specific story is pure shit.
 

Shevek

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Haha, nice, I knew this would eventually come down whether people think PoE or BG2 is better.

Nobody is really claiming that PoE is better than BG2 ITT.

Have you read this thread?

If you say that BG2 did lore and role-playing better, we'll have some words..

@Roleplaying: it didn't. It's PoE's one, sole victory over BG2. The one thing it does better. My beef with you is that you proclaim PoE to be the better game, solely based on this one victory. That makes no sense when BG2 is better in every other department, easily.
Alright, let's take inventory:

Setting & lore - PoE
Character system - PoE (sure you can't multiclass but it's still better)
Combat - PoE (subjective, I know)
Quests and dialogues - PoE
Location variety - BG2
Monster variety - BG2
Itams! - BG2
Crafting - PoE
Companions - mostly PoE, Avellone is still a God amongst men, the lazy fuck should have written moar companions
Art - about the same, but PoE has more details and atmosphere
Dungeon design - BG2

Extra shit:
Mage battles! - BG2
Text adventures - PoE

Extenuating Circumstances:
- Drizzt

@Lore: I disagree. PoE is stuck between wanting a low-fantasy feel in a high fantasy setting. But it's a lie. In the end it is just as high fantasy as the games it compares to, it's just more pretentious about it. Unlike PS:T it has no right to be.
At least it's an interesting high fantasy that makes you pay attention. FR is generic shite.
 

Grunker

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ToB is two things bros: a really bad stand-alone campaign, and some really cool expansion content.
 

felipepepe

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Ok, so can we all agree that Pilalrs of Eternity is on par with Baldur's Gate 1, but inferior to Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm ok with this, and hope that Obsidian has the guts to make with PoE 2 what BioWare did with BG2.
 

NotAGolfer

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Haha, nice, I knew this would eventually come down whether people think PoE or BG2 is better. The thing is, when people think of BG2, they think of it with all the ToB crap added in. I wonder how may others will find PoE preferable once it gets xpac content (new talents, items, maybe even classes and companions, more dungeons, etc..). People forget how many items got added in to BG2 with ToB or that Watcher's Keep was from ToB.
Wut?!
ToB was a boring slog, I never include that when I think about muh precious BG2.
Maybe not you, but someone in this thread already used it when comparing BG2's dungeons to PoE's.
Yeah... Imo Watcher's Keep is shit too because not at all connected to the ingame stories. It feels detached and I don't really like it.
I didn't even like Durlag's Tower in BG1 for the same reason. Nice dungeon and all but since RTwP is crap why should I enjoy all these really hard fights there when there is no incentive besides good loot (which I already had in abundance in the main game, the BGs are flooded with legendary weapons and armors).
Give me these dungeons in a TB game and I'd enjoy the heck out of them but RTwP? Not so much, the frequent reloads in main BG1 and 2 were enough, thank you.
Still, I enjoyed the fights in both games, and also because of the hard counters that made me reload that often. The sense of progression and the nice ways to utilize the strengths of each build were awesome. RTwP makes it a bit cumbersome though. And therefore endless combat-only scenarios like these 2 dungeons in the expansions were just a little too much.
 
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Athelas

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Ok, so can we all agree that Pilalrs of Eternity is on par with Baldur's Gate 1, but inferior to Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm ok with this, and hope that Obsidian has the guts to make with PoE 2 what BioWare did with BG2.
What makes you think 'guts' is what's needed for them to make it?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Ok, so can we all agree that Pilalrs of Eternity is on par with Baldur's Gate 1, but inferior to Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm ok with this, and hope that Obsidian has the guts to make with PoE 2 what BioWare did with BG2.

It's better than BG1 IMO due to some reactivity, much better dialogue and its systems and combat. But besides that, well, yeah.
 

Shevek

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Ok, so can we all agree that Pilalrs of Eternity is on par with Baldur's Gate 1, but inferior to Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm ok with this, and hope that Obsidian has the guts to make with PoE 2 what BioWare did with BG2.

Nope. PoE is LEAGUES better than BG1. Its way better man, not "on par."
 

ironyuri

Guest
better than Fallout in every way.

you might want to get that old sore seen to

the butt is a bad place for wounds to fester

Haha, nice, I knew this would eventually come down whether people think PoE or BG2 is better. The thing is, when people think of BG2, they think of it with all the ToB crap added in. I wonder how may others will find PoE preferable once it gets xpac content (new talents, items, maybe even classes and companions, more dungeons, etc..). People forget how many items got added in to BG2 with ToB or that Watcher's Keep was from ToB.

I don't think there are many who will agree with VD that PoE can compete with BG2.


Sorry Grunks, who has old sores? We all know your tastes m8

Grunker said:
That shit doesn't matter much when there's no reason to use anything but "aim for head". Even when I played this the first time and didn't get it I got by JUST fine by not aiming at all.

If your options has no meaningful place within your system, they might as well not be there at all. In Fallout, most of them was just there to have something to laugh at or use for kicks in fights that were sure wins anyway.

This is actually true of almost anything in Fallout, especially the character system as well. Shitty design from A to B. But I guess since they had to abandon GURPS midway through they were in a hurry to come up with something. A pity that the simplified nonsense that is S.P.E.C.I.A.L survived through F2 to Lionheart to F3 and NV.

Grunker said:
I know. That's why I enjoy cerebral combat in games like KotC much more than in Fallout, where cheap thrills like exploding heads is all there is

Grunker said:
I place BG over Fallout as well (*braces for impact even though it's stated in two posts in the topic already*). And both of us have explained why: Fallout maybe more ambitious, but it also has way, waaaay more problems. I know the Codex loves flawed gems, but in the end a working Fiat Punto is much more practical than a broken Ferrari. We can all marvel at what the broken Ferrari could have been, but that won't make it, it. Sure, Fallout was closer to greatness than Arcanum which is just a flat-out mess of a game, but I still wouldn't raise it above flawed gem status - and a very flawed gem at that. Though BG doesn't deserve to be called a punto - it's combat mechanics are way more complex and polished than Fallout's could ever hope to be, for example.

Fallout is ambitious, but fails. Baldur's Gate is not as ambitious, and succeeds at almost everything it sets out to do. That's the core of why Infinitron and I rate it above Fallout, I believe.

Very important: http://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph...raging-so-hard-now.83405/page-10#post-2679322

Grunker said:
Everytime Fallout is discussed, its number of skills and number of solutions are highlighted. Options (choices) and outcomes (consequences) is what this game is most lauded for here. Not the fact that these options are hidden or the fact that they must be discovered (often via trial and error). That's just some bullshit defense invented for the occassion.

And so on and so on. Grunker, you know fuck all about decent design whether its encounter, gameplay, quest solutions, or character progression.

Ps. EXPEDITIONS: CONQUISTADOR IS STILL THE BEST KICKSTARTER GAME AND EXPEDITIONS: VIKINGS WILL BE BETTERER.
 

Shadenuat

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Imo Watcher's Keep is shit too

everythingisshit.jpg

Watcher's Keep is awesome. Not so long ago I was reading Codex LP when he was walking around demon level. And it wasn't 5 demons, 5 demons, 5 demons +1 megademon, no. He walked into a room with little imps, and wild magic field. And shit was fucked up. And then readers pointed out that after that encounter Codex changed gender.

That is what I call a :codexisforindividualswithgenderidentityissues:encounter design goddamit. Made me want to stop slaying bloody KurvasPwgras and go play that instead.
 

Kane

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lurker3000

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Has anyone played an unmodded BG2 recently? I cannot remember the last time i played it its natural state. What combat/encounters in BG2 is today is nothing like when it came out. Ascension, SCS, Spell Revisions, Revised Battles, and others have made the game completely different from when it came out. Anyway I barely remember unmodded BG2 which makes it hard to compare the games.
 

Grunker

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:lol: mostly I can't even dream of inspiring that level of butthurt.

But, well, yeah. Fallout's combat is shit. I don't think that's controversial even on the Codex, and it certainly wasn't the controversial part of that thread.

Imo Watcher's Keep is shit too

everythingisshit.jpg

Watcher's Keep is awesome. Not so long ago I was reading Codex LP when he was walking around demon level. And it wasn't 5 demons, 5 demons, 5 demons +1 megademon, no. He walked into a room with little imps, and wild magic field. And shit was fucked up. And then readers pointed out that after that encounter Codex changed gender.

That is what I call a :codexisforindividualswithgenderidentityissues:encounter design goddamit. Made me want to stop slaying bloody KurvasPwgras and go play that instead.

best dungeon ever 10/10 gg no re
 
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