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My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

Pillars of Eternity is


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    371

Athelas

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Because they'll need to ramp up on things like encounter design, which can make the game harder & more complex.
What makes you think this is a question of 'guts' rather than competence? Weren't you complaining about the mega-dungeon boss being too hard (not necessarily hard in a good way)?
 

Bleed the Man

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'm more in line with what Vault Dweller values the most in RPGs (Reactivity, quest design, C&C... all that good stuff. That's why I love Arcanum despite having some glaring flaws that can be gamebraking to a several number of people) so I'm having as much if not more fun than with BG2, but I also agree with a lot (not all) of Grunker's points, so I don't know if I would call it a better "game".
 

hiver

Guest
But, well, yeah. Fallout's combat is shit. I don't think that's controversial even on the Codex, and it certainly wasn't the controversial part of that thread.

It was actually pretty good for its time, and clearly pointed out what needs to be improved, not that you actually have anything else to say except making dumb empty assertions like that.
Combat that had unarmed skill, with different hits and status effects, melee, and ranged, fast or with targeting can be "shit" only to a complete moron who is trying to hard, barking up the wrong tree completely.
Not to mention pretty good encounters design and the whole of gameplay it was in.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Because they'll need to ramp up on things like encounter design, which can make the game harder & more complex.
What makes you think this is a question of 'guts' rather than competence? Weren't you complaining about the mega-dungeon boss being too hard (not necessarily hard in a good way)?
Because they can always go the BioWare route and streamline things to reach a wider audience... you know the drill. Besides, it takes a special kind of gut to look at your widely praised 91 Metacritic RPG and say "yeah, encounter design definitely needs to be better".
 

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
I just hope that the devs will have more ambition for PoE2. And maybe just maybe they'll let the writers whose work was actually well received do the writing this time around?
 

Athelas

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Because they'll need to ramp up on things like encounter design, which can make the game harder & more complex.
What makes you think this is a question of 'guts' rather than competence? Weren't you complaining about the mega-dungeon boss being too hard (not necessarily hard in a good way)?
Because they can always go the BioWare route and streamline things to reach a wider audience... you know the drill. Besides, it takes a special kind of gut to look at your widely praised 91 Metacritic RPG and say "yeah, encounter design definitely needs to be better".
Then truly all hope is lost. :negative:
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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it takes a special kind of gut to look at your widely praised 91 Metacritic RPG and say "yeah, encounter design definitely needs to be better".

A lot of things can be said of Sawyer, but I think it unfair to deem him a slave to popular opinion ;)

I just hope that the devs will have more ambition for PoE2. And maybe just maybe they'll let the writers whose work was actually well received do the writing this time around?

Those guys are expensive. There's probably some Peter's Principle at work here.
 

NotAGolfer

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:lol: mostly I can't even dream of inspiring that level of butthurt.

But, well, yeah. Fallout's combat is shit. I don't think that's controversial even on the Codex, and it certainly wasn't the controversial part of that thread.

Imo Watcher's Keep is shit too

everythingisshit.jpg

Watcher's Keep is awesome. Not so long ago I was reading Codex LP when he was walking around demon level. And it wasn't 5 demons, 5 demons, 5 demons +1 megademon, no. He walked into a room with little imps, and wild magic field. And shit was fucked up. And then readers pointed out that after that encounter Codex changed gender.

That is what I call a :codexisforindividualswithgenderidentityissues:encounter design goddamit. Made me want to stop slaying bloody KurvasPwgras and go play that instead.

best dungeon ever 10/10 gg no re
Mega dungeons without context and random enemies/puzzles suck ass in a story-heavy game.
That's a fact.
:neveraskedforthis:

Sure, they made up ingame explanations for most of it. Who cares, this was just a fig leaf for these high level party combat slogs intended to be nothing else.
 

Immortal

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However, for hardcore fans that replayed the IE games multiple times, that enjoy the depth, replayability and freedom of those games, Pillars is lacking. Severely so. You'll notice it the more you play - the completely wasted Keep, the lack of race-specific interactions, the linear storyline, the lack of C&C, boring itemization, battles playing all very similarly, the lack of crazy character builds, etc...
I agree with most of your points but I think that PoE is far superior to BG and is good or better than BG2.

Sneak peak from the review:

"And paid homage they did, creating the finest BG-clone 4 million dollars can buy, loaded with nostalgia, cute little BG things like the cursor and ‘you must gather the party before venturing forth’, handcrafted 2D background with rare attention to details, and all the bells-n-whistles we’ve come to expect from Obsidian .

Imagine, if you will, a Baldur’s Gate-like game with the state of the art RTwP combat powered up by Josh Sawyer’s version of DnD 4.0 - reimagined for balance-inclined audience, set in a world that wants to be original but is afraid to let go off the familiar, filled with quests with multiple solutions and double-crossing opportunities.

It’s a better Baldur’s Gate with a twist of Icewind Dale, with more depth and role-playing that goes beyond playing dress up. Still, it’s Baldur’s Gate, not Torment, Fallout, or even Mask of the Betrayer. Don’t say we didn’t warn you."

God I hope you are trolling..
 

ironyuri

Guest
your mom is a hoe

thats a fact


wow now someone has a sore butt rite?

Lord of a Keep at lvl 3-4. Keep is larger than King Raedric's.

Keep is on top of a 15 lvl dungeon filled with monsters - no effect on safety of keep.

Keep serves no purpose except as a carnival minigame/money sink in a bloated economy.


> Keep is gr8.

:fuuyeah::fuuyeah:
 

ironyuri

Guest
Let me tell you a story.

Imagine your mom had beautiful wallpaper in the 70s, but wallpaper in the 70s was really just a rip off of older styles of wallpaper from the fin de siecle, and in general wallpaper itself was a plebeian way to substitute for wall hangings like a William Morris chintz, but stick with me on the wallpaper.

You really loved the garish, pleb wallpaper your mom had in 1979.

So in 2015 you go to a cheesey hipster boutique store and buy a chai mocha latte frappucino and then some new wallpaper, because you're a fucking queer.

You put up the new walpaper over the old shitty wallpaper without scraping it off, because you're fucking lazy.

And then, the new wallpaper starts peeling off in places and isn't gr8 anyway.

And then it leaches chemicals which kill your dog who is dumb and who licks the wallpaper.

And then you get butt cancer cos fuck you.

That's PoE.
 

NotAGolfer

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The keep sucks, yep.
That's what I was saying and you called my mother a hoe?
Rage-why.png

:troll:
 

Kane

I have many names
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Let me tell you a story.

Imagine your mom had beautiful wallpaper in the 70s, but wallpaper in the 70s was really just a rip off of older styles of wallpaper from the fin de siecle, and in general wallpaper itself was a plebeian way to substitute for wall hangings like a William Morris chintz, but stick with me on the wallpaper.

You really loved the garish, pleb wallpaper your mom had in 1979.

So in 2015 you go to a cheesey hipster boutique store and buy a chai mocha latte frappucino and then some new wallpaper, because you're a fucking queer.

You put up the new walpaper over the old shitty wallpaper without scraping it off, because you're fucking lazy.

And then, the new wallpaper starts peeling off in places and isn't gr8 anyway.

And then it leaches chemicals which kill your dog who is dumb and who licks the wallpaper.

And then you get butt cancer cos fuck you.

That's PoE.

always-angry.gif
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Terra da Garoa
Good post felipepe, i hope you will write the POE codex review.
Nope, that will be penned by esteemed gentlemen Grunker and VD, who are doing a friendly brainstorm mid-thread.

Highly debatable choice, of course, since I have solid evidence that VD and Jaesun are making money from unsuspecting PoE players:

x3Es1lR.jpg
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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The keep sucks, yep.
You mean it's like any other keep? Yeah...

Crossroad Keep was better. The two are very comparable, one just has better systems and more you can do.

Ultimately though, BG2 is the only keep I can think of that is great. Your keep just facilitates stories and quests that put you in the role of a master/guildleader/lord, instead of spending time on stupid minigames and pointless systems.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Messages
35,656
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And those who never played Dragon Age: Origins are condemned to remake it when making their own spiritual successor to the same source.

Re: C&C

I once had an argument with Roguey in which I claimed that Wasteland 2 would have more C&C than PoE, if only because unlike PoE, it was the game's main focus. Looks like I might have been right.

In hindsight, that was a bit presumptuous of me considering all the things they had to do in 29 months and Sawyer's post-New Vegas reluctance to let heavily scripted content get out of control. inXile paid the price for that with the state of LA for several months after release.

Crossroad Keep was better. The two are very comparable, one just has better systems and more you can do.

Crossroad Keep doesn't have systems, it was all scripted. :P

Once they came to the conclusion that keep activities should be 100% optional because a lot of players have an extremely negative reaction to it, they should have left it as a homestead. Once again Josh failed his own principles (i.e. any given thing in a game should be designed for the people who enjoy that kind of gameplay; those who enjoy keep management gameplay won't/didn't enjoy something that's light on content by necessity on account of everything else they had to do and also completely divorced from everything else).
 

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