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My New M:tA Campaign

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,752
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Hi there, Codex! In this coming new year, I should finally be starting a Mage: the Ascension game with a few friends. I have for a very long time now wanted to play that game again, but it can be hard to find players. It won't start for a while, however (probably only by February), so I am deciding some stuff. As much as I like the core idea of Mage, I played very little of it. So, since I know quite a few people here are fans of the game, I thought I would bounce a few ideas and ask for new ones. This first post is a wee bit long. Sorry for that...

Basics
Well, the thing about Mage is that every way of trying to understand the world is just as valid as any other. Not that they are equally true. Truth is, surprisingly, determined democratically. But this opens questions about what is behind the reality itself. If people can influence what is the truth with their beliefs, then there needs to be a kind of meta-reality that makes this true, right? Or maybe not? Maybe even people influencing reality is part of what is influenced, so that reality could become truly static if the technocracy won? If that isn't the case, what rules exactly do this higher reality have? What is its relationship with Avatars? Are spheres related to it? Is there something behind the knowledge of all mages that is actually common to all?​
Rather than answer these hard question, I am leaving it open. I expect this will be important to the campaign later on, and I think that if I answered it beforehand, I would be determining what the game is about beforehand. Still, a few concepts are set so we can work from them. First, though magic can take many forms, it is always recognizable as magic. Though an awakened scientist may insist that a marauder is an "anomaly" in reality, while his work is that of a true genius, he still understands that both his and the Marauder's ability are, even if differently used, fundamentally the same.​
Avatars
Avatars are a big enigma even for mages in this version of the setting. Different mages have different thoughts about what they are. Some say they are the very soul of people, awakened to the perception is is bigger than its current life and the current reality. Others claim it is a spirit guide, or a guardian angel. A common theory among technocrats is that they are nothing more than an unconscious perception of reality, manifesting itself through dreams, visions and voices.​
Whatever they believe, however, some facts remain static. First, avatars are deeply joined to human "spirits". Trying to affect a living person's spirit affects her Avatar. Second, all people seem to posses a spirit, or soul. However, most of them are "asleep", and won't act consciously. No magic can awaken someone's spirit, except maybe that of the oracles. Third, Avatars carry in themselves memories of other "lives". While many different theories about these other "lives" exist, everything points that the same avatar is used by different people throughout the ages, and each of them keeps a memory of these previous lives.​
Fourth, only humans have avatars. Most supernatural creatures, such as spirits, faeries seem to have a different natures. This natures seems to be somewhat linked with free will, but the relation is nebulous, and much philosophical discussion has been had on this topic. Including the possibility of spirits that become very close with humans to develop free will of their own, and thus gain avatars. Nothing of the sort has been definitely prevent to happen, though. Supernatural creatures that were former humans usually have afflicted avatars of some sort that prevents them from awakening. The curse upon the vampires, for example, does exactly that. Dreamspeakers have noted you can reach an avatar through the ghost of a person that used to have it, but they aren't the same thing. What kind of connection is that is unclear, though, with different mages reporting conflicting results and theories.​
Finally, all Avatars seem to guide mages. All mages (like all humans, really) have problems they need to deal with. Rather than letting mages sit tight and fall into a static pattern, avatars seem happy to push the mage for more conflict. Tradition mages believe different avatars may have different aims with that. Some seek to build a sturdy base upon which the mage can lay his soul, while others seem to be always questing for something.​
No one knows for certain why Avatars are needed to make magic. More mystical mages have theorized that all magic needs 3 elements to occur. First is the will. This is the arete, the connection the mage himself has, consciously, with reality. Second is knowledge, which comes in the form of spheres. The avatar is classically put as the third element, the spark of the divine, necessary to make the mage's ideas true.​
The big thing here is that I want Avatars to be important in the Mages' quest, but not to have a predefined role to play. I want players to be able to be creative when coming up with what their avatars are, what their relationship with it is like and what meaning it holds.​
Will
Whatever the truth is, fact is people influence reality with their beliefs, convictions and thoughts. Most people lack the knowledge to work miracles like mages. They also usually have a sleeping avatar, which makes their spark of the divine, if that is what they are, far dimmer. But everyone has a will, and this builds the tapestry around mages have to work. The great triumph of science was to create a framework where people without the divine spark could work similar miracles to mages. Of course, this had been done before. To this day, Hermetic mages still train sorcerers capable ofweaving complex spells for very specific result. And some true believers and would be saints still remain in this world.​
But what science managed to create went much further. They not only could make sleepers able to use a magic of sorts, but they also could do it reliably. No matter that doing so almost ensured they wouldn't awaken, opposite to how mages previously did that. The important thing was that, while a mage could spend 5 years with an apprentice to teach him to weave a fireball, a technocrat could make a factory, build cannons en masse and make whole armies around the new weapons.​
Thus, we have nowadays a much more powerful force of paradox. Paradox was always a reality to mages, even back in mythical times. Because of how dynamic magic works, mages are always needing to break their old paradigms to make advances in their fields of knowledge. Thus, paradigms are always being broken, and this in turn creates the dreaded paradox. But nowadays, it is much harder for will workers to do their craft. Even the Technocracy is finding it harder and harder to bring in new ideas into reality. In a way, they are crumbling under their weight. Under the knowledge of science, changing how the world is looked upon needs to fight the will of billions of sleepers.​
Fortunately, it is possible to avoid paradox by making your magic seem to not be magic at all in the eyes of observers. Observers are key here. If your magic can avoid having anyone perceive its effects, or not realize that anything is weird, then you are home free. Of course, perceive is key here. Maybe building up a storm cloud over the whole city won't make the people looking up to the sky think anything is wrong. But whoever reviews the satellite images later on to make the weather report is going to really wonder what the hell is going on with clouds appearing out of nothing. In fact, much of the science created by the technocrats is all about curbing magical power by making sure it is watched. Then again, what is or isn't plausible changes from person to person. Your average city dweller knows that electrical outlets can't shoot thunder bolts. But the backwards village that just got electricity might not.​
My objective here is to make avoiding paradox a reverse magic trick. I want to challenge the player's imagination in coming up with ideas to disguise real magic. I also want players to realize that true belief is the most important asset in the ascension war, even if not all of them are going to deal with people directly.​
Spheres
Although in the current days, the alliance between the traditions speak of nine spheres., that was not always the case. It used to be that each tradition broke down magic on its own terms. Even now, however, even if much was shared by the different traditions, the spheres are far from homogeneous. As a whole, each individual traditions at the very least keep their own approach to different spheres. The Order of Hermes sees the matter sphere as the study of alchemy, while a Son of Ether has something similar to the 20s chemistry mixed with notions of the ether binding electrons in place, forming an etheric cloud determining how the material interacts with light. Cultists of Ecstasy just think matter is a kind of rhythm. The reason rocks are a lot more solid than water is just because their beat is a whole lot slower.​
Individual groups within each tradition, and mages within the groups also have their own ideas about spheres. In the end, while mages can certainly help each other, dynamic magic requires creativity. You don't just become a master of the matter spheres (or even an initiate, for that matter). You don't just study it like you would study chemistry. Instead, each mage must, in fact, reinvent the sphere! Again, not whole cloth, but he must come up with the breakthrough that llows him to study the higher levels of it. So, while all hermetic alchemists share certain basic notions, each mage will have his own personal theories, thoughts and ideas that make his own magic tick.​
Therefore, each player should keep track of how his character views the spheres and how his own magic works. Maybe he uses the default matter sphere from the rules book, but he still should determine his own theories, techniques and quirks of using magic. This means that each mage's magic works at least a bit different, and can possibly interact in different ways. So, a verbana might know the names of many different spirits and compel them according to their different natures, requiring them to repay certain, very specific favors with other certain, very specific favors, a celestial chorister may just say that Christ compels the spirit to do his bidding. While this is certainly simpler, a failure to the chorister might mean God's wrath befalls him, while a crafty which might have to deal with a different task she must fulfill to control the spirit.​
Some mages go even deeper in individualizing their magic. Some take alternative spheres, for example. Some claim a few of the Euthanatos created a blood sphere they use instead of prime after studying the vampiric curse. And a few of the older lines inside the Order of Hermes still have an Elemental path instead of either matter or forces. A few mages deny the division between spirit and mind, and study both spheres as one (though it usually is harder to learn and has a few quirks from being unable to separate the two concepts). Others go even deeper. Really old lines still keep the pillars from the dark ages alive, denying to dapat their studies to the spheres. That is not even considering stuff like the marauders and nephandi, who sometimes posses very little known magical paths.​
My aim here is to make spheres a bit more involved, but also customized by players. It is a very important part of each mage's life what he is studying. So, I think it makes sense to put at least part of that as an in-game thing, rather than normalizing everything with generic rules. I want players to come up with their own ideas about how their magic works, and then throw those ideas against each other and think of ways they can interact, rather than just making opposed rolls to decide who wins.​
Order of Hermes Spheres
Still on the topic of the spheres, I have been thinking how tradition spheres can be different from the "norm". I wrote a bit about how I think Order of Hermes spheres could be (I wrote about 3 spheres up to now). I may write more later, though I don't want to write about everything. This is just to give the players a leg up on how they should start their own spheres. By the way, I used mastery nomenclature from the Awakening mage. I thought it was a nice way to not have to write dots in what already looks like flavor text (though it is supposed to be the actual rules). Here is what they mean:​
Initiate: 1 dot.​
Apprentice: 2 dots.​
Disciple: 3 dots.​
Adept: 4 dots.​
Master: 5 dots.​
Here is what I have up to now:​
Forces
More than any other faction, hermeticians still deny the matter/forces paradigm, preferring to remain with the ages old elemental paradigm. Even among these, however, the old ways of a separate sphere for each element are rare. Most have an all encompassing elemental sphere where they study of all the elements. Even so, it may come as a big surprise that not only are force using hermeticians masters of forces, but also they were the ones who created it.

Though many attribute the clear separation between matter and energy to the technocrats, the Order of Hermes actually first studied forces as a separate sphere. The thing about elemental spheres is that each of the 4 elements has many different manifestations. Blood, iron, and fire itself are all associated to the elemental fire. In the early 17th century, trying to understand the unifying principle behind those better, the order broke down its study into alchemy (which studied the different ways the elements could manifest and change) and the forces, which studied the basic, primary forces uniting these things as a pure force, unbound of material representation.

Forces for hermetic mages works similarly to the usual expectations of the sphere, except that rather than dividing the powers into minor and major forces, they divide it into impure and pure forces. Each of the four elements has several forces associated to it. Fire has domain over heat and light, whereas in air resides the kinetic and pressure forces. These are the so called impure forces. Apprentices of Forces may already tame them. However, some impure forces require more than 1 element. Lightning, for one, requires both fire and air. This kind of combination requires one of disciple status.

The forces sphere of the Hermetic Order has a few more problems, however. Given how the primary elements work, and given what forces is, their sphere can't convert a kind of force into another of another element without matter (which many still call alchemy. By the way, alchemy can't create matter without forces, as the elemental component comes form here). Their view of a few forces is also peculiar. Gravity, for one, is not directional, it is a power of the earth, thus it always pulls to the earth. All the relationships the technocrats built between gravity, space and time are lost on the order.

However, the sphere is not without its upsides. In fact, it has quite a few. Adepts of the sphere can manipulate forces into mixing with opposite elements. This creates many strange effects, some of which are absent in nature. Some of these are seen as simple the lack of a force by others (like cold or darkness) whereas others are absolutely new and bizarre (like radiance). Finally, when one masters this sphere, he has access to the powerful pure forces. Whereas the mage had before manipulated aspects of elemental fire or water, the master has access to the dreaded forces themselves. These forces are all strange and alien to the technocrat point of view. In fact, they are not only forces ,but in a way are spirits and gods themselves. All the notes the alchemist used to link the elements to the gods now make themselves clear, allowing the mage to manipulate not a mindless ball of flame, but a fire with a name, mind, history and personality. This also has the benefit of allowing the mage to connect his forces spells with the mind or spirit sphere in ways a technocrat never could.

Foci: There are two main schools of thought here. The first follows directly from the alchemical roots of the sphere and draw the principles by sublimating common matter into the primal elements that form them, and string those energies in alchemical talismans, inks, statuettes and all other kinds of magical paraphernalia. This process is very slow, but makes it easier for the mage to work with greater amounts of power, and is somewhat less paradox prone.

The other school of thought believes that this distillation of power from common matter is backwards. That instead, the primal elements must always be derived directly from prime. Thus, their tool of choice is usually the parchment, holding several arcane formulae that describe the power to be created/controlled/examined or altered by the spell. These scrolls are always made of cheap paper, and using common inks, as no part of the magical energy should
come from the material itself. This kind of magic is a little more paradox prone, given that the previous could at least pass as a chemical reaction. Besides, it is impossible to have, for example, a dedicated foci here. On the other hand, this purer approach to the elements greatly please the elemental powers themselves. Thus, magic is a bit more easy, and if one were to deal with a pure force, or an elemental (using spirit) or any other related entity, such dealings are much more likely to start in good terms.


Correspondence
The order has a long history with this sphere. While in the dark ages, some of the knowledge disappeared and mages folded it into elemental study, this sphere has its roots on the work of the ancient Mage Euclid, The Elements. Although even that work derives from the ancient egyptian knowledge. Hermetic correspondence is a varied field. At its core are the points, which can be measured and distanced from each other. These distances frequently are provided in a Cartesian plane using cardinal directions as its lines.

Each point in space has a name, and defining a point's names effectively measures it. So the novice uses his tools of trade, the compass, the transfer, the set square, the ruler and so on, to measure points. Living things have their true position given by their true name. It is almost impossible to measure that directly, without help of other spheres, though. What mages can do is measure an approximation, using either the stars or the things tied to that being. the stars are all set points. They derive their meaning from old gods and symbols, and are in a way connected with far realms, chantries and other dimensions. Find the relative position a person is to these and you can guess part of her true name. Find the relative position she was in important events, such as her marriage or birth, and you can guess even more, and thus have more power over her.

But you can also use other, somehow related points to measure a person's name. A line of hair, an engagement ring, a locket, a heartfelt poetry, can all be used to take these measurements. This means that this version of correspondence deals equally well with both subjective and objective correspondences. Although the concept of measuring the order uses is complicated (making the first dot in this discipline cost 1.5 times more), it is also readily usable with other spheres in order to define all kinds of details about a person. This process astrological in nature, with the mage determining various facts from how the points relate to the stars.

Moving on to the level of apprentice, the mage can now work with lines connecting points. This allows the mage to perceive these points, allowing him not only to measure these far away points, but also to perceive, see, hear or even use magical senses as if he was there himself. This is nothing more than the old window magic most traditions have a version of, but it should be noted that hermetic windows are literally lines on a geometric space. If these lines cross, a new, third point is created, connected with the other 4 points. This means that mages may notice each other spying on other people, and then try to spy on the others themselves. Most mages, to avoid being spied upon, will create the lines on 3d space, rather than in a single plane. And then, they will probably make the lines move along unusual paths in order to avoid having their windows noticed.

A disciple begins to create lines of infinite size and planes. This is very useful to create barriers or eavesdrops against anyone trying to open a window on you. However, if should be noted that some mages have taken advantage of the euclidean nature of hermetic correspondence and bypassed these barriers entirely just by using unusual correspondence systems. Disciples also begin to use geometric figures, such as triangles, squares, stars, platonic solids, polyhedrons and so on. The reason of doing this is because the different figures have different affinities. This allows a mage to draw on those affinities to deliver spells. For example, the mage may try to position an enemy just east of mars and south of Venus (at exactly 5 degrees from each) would be in the perfect position to receive a thunder bolt from the skies. The different shapes, the numbers according to astrology and all the other variables determine these affinities. In fact, proper use of this can allow a mage to position himself in order to make it much easier to accomplish rituals of power. The other aspect of geometric constructs is that their lines have several key points, allowing a mage to keep his senses in several places at once.

With the level of adept, the mage finally learns how to manipulate true names. This allows one to shift points from space, effectively allowing one to teleport, or to make something be at two places at once. Of course, it is always easier for the mage to affect himself, for he knows his true name better than any other. But with enough care, the mage can do any kind of fine manipulation with this level. For example, an old portal spell uses the 3 pointed star (referencing Hermes himself, who is not only the namesake of the order, but also a messenger god) in a circle with a true name inscribed inside it. The mage them connects the three points of the star with the name, and the circle becomes a hole leading to the point it was connected in first place, through which any can walk. Although this is true at all levels, it should be noted here that hermetic correspondence doesn't differentiate from spiritual and non spiritual places. In fact, where it not for the gauntlet, this level could send the mage to the underworld or to Jupiter just as easily as it can send him to another country. But still, even with the gauntlet, this magic mixes extremely well with spirit, meaning that the usual penalties for using more than one sphere don't apply.​
Finally, at this level, circles (and other non straight shapes, such as ellipsis) become available to the mage. The inherent mystical capacity of circles is cutting away an area (or, in 3d, a volume) around a point, defining what is related to that point or not. Thus, circles are always used for magics that bring things together, that server them and that cuts through space defining a boundary. Thus, why the portal spell above is inscribed in a circle.

The master learns how to deal with 2D and 3D elements, rather than just points, as a single entity. This means that he can change how space itself work. He can make the inside of a small house big like a palace, or a country! He can cut space itself with a plane, which servers anything it touches. He can literally square the circle or circle the square. Some mages have commented that hermetic masters are somewhat lacking, as they are still bound to 3D, euclidean geometry. While the powers of a master can hardly be called limited, it is true that the masters of other traditions sometimes can do things hermetics can only dream off. Because of that, masters sometimes seek off different traditions to enrich their own knowledge.

Foci: Usually, the order uses various geometric tools to accomplish these magics. These usually inscribe the mystic shapes and formulas into paper, though some alternatives do exist. One of the most prized tools the order has developed ia a huge globe with several lines marking the points of different important stars and constellations. This glove has several markers attached that can be used to draw on its surface or to simply mark important points. This kind of magi excels in how exact it is. Mages don't usually need t fear that they will miss their target by a hair's lngth or that the magic circle they created isn't perfectly round.​
A much rarer foci, but still worth being mentioned, I feel, is the use of direct diagrams on the reality. Some students on horizon realms never have to deal with paradox. Thus,they sometimes go after this style where their mind interacts directly with space, creating the necessary diagrams out of thin air, as 2D or 3D drawings of light around them. This is really paradox prone, though it is just as exact as the normal Hermetic tools and, because it is linked directly to the mind of the casting mage, makes using subjective materials to reach a point is much faster than normal, avoiding the need of several complicated measurements.

Matter
As mentioned above, the matter sphere tradition began as a reordering of the elemental spheres, separating them into the study of primal elemental forces and the alchemical transmutations these forces went through once binded to matter. At one time, this sphere was just as important to the tradition as forces, but in the modern days, it has been somewhat abandoned. Many modern mages of Hermes either go directly back to the elemental roots of the sphere or take a more updated view of matter from another tradition. However, while it is true that hermetic alchemy can be hard to use, specially because of its reliance on forces (see below), it also mixes powerfully with other spheres. Specially forces, spirit, mind and life.

Alchemy is an immanent philosophy. It says that each different substance, such as iron, oxygen, water,and even mixtures, such as iron or loamy earth, are actually manifestations of he principles, ideas and mysteries that go far deeper than the visible world. In this paradigm, each chemical reaction or transformation actually follows the complicated mysteries behind each element. For example, carbon is related t Aphrodite's entrancing nature, while iron is related to Hephaestus craft. the two therefore combine easily, and the result is steel, which Aphrodite's more malleable nature makes far less brittle than iron.

An initiate of alchemy begins to study, understand and attune to the mysteries behind the various alchemical compounds. While he can't manipulate matter directly, this insight into the heart of the physical world enables the alchemist to achieve miraculous results indirectly, by combining elements that are bound to react or merger well with each other. This is much like a technomancer might use matter 1 to understand how to create an alloy or molecule. Except that instead of using the precepts of usual chemistry, alchemist use their own science.

Once they move on to apprentices, alchemists are able to master the basic mysteries of individual elements. he ever hungry nature of acid, and its sometimes equally vicious base counterpart. The ever seductive oxygen, which can inflame passions in some elements while slowly corroding the resistance of other materials. Understanding all these allow the mage to control the manifestation of these basic substances, as well as create them anew. The manifestation is how a particular element shapes itself. Water can become ice, snow, steam, clouds among many others (in fact, many say water is the most versatile of the elements).​
Air can stand still in a windless day or howl like a mad man in a storm. It can be heavy or thin. Stone can be seduced to take the shape an artist want. Or it can be understood to be given the shape it wants. Or it can be forced to take a shape without any inspiration, though such things obviously aren't real art. They are just sculpting. It should be noted that alchemists have trouble working many mysteries at the same time at this point. Air is hard to manipulate because behind its own mysteries lie Nitrogen and Oxygen (and a mixture of several others). A lake's water is easier to manipulate than sea water, as it lacks the mystery of salt inside it (then again, sea water can take forms a lake could never do). Note that differences between form may not always conform to modern sensibilities. For example, alchemists see pipe water as "tamed" rather than wild. So, it has much less strength than the water in a lake or river would have. On the other hand, it is much easier to manipulate.

Alchemists have some trouble creating matter because, different from most mages, they can't simply use prime. Prime is in alchemy the 5th essence (and, to this day, many mages with no connection to alchemy still call it quintessence). So, instead of prime, they use the forces sphere to bring into being the primal element from which the substance they want to create derives.

As the mage attains the rank of disciple and begins to understand the paths of changes. These are several different ways substances can affect each other and change the inherent mystery of each other. How these changes occur, and what is their effect depends on the substances involved, and each define a specific path, or technique as they are sometimes called. Take hydrogen, for example. Hydrogen's mystery is associated with the twin water nymphs. The two are very similar and can't really be separated, usually. However, the essence of oxygen, is that of a great womanizer, a real Don Ruan. By using oxygen's corrupting influence, the nymphs can be separated, though this separation is not exactly quiet.​
While any alchemist (or really, anyone who paid attention to chemistry classes) would know that hydrogen and oxygen combine into water, a disciple understand the reason this happens, how the spark of fire can unleash the passion that separate stable relationships and form others. And even though this is called the mystery of oxidation, it may not use oxygen at all. Thus, using this process, he is able to separate and combine seductive materials (oxidation agents) and materials that stick together by force of similarity (fuel). The alchemist is able to then to force these changes using magic. With strength enough, even materials that normally wouldn't react that way can be changed in interesting ways.

Besides the paths of changes themselves, a disciple is also capable of distilling these paths into potions, amulets and several other media. While deeper mysteries such as the universal solvent (Alkahest) are still beyond his reach, he can create, for example, an oxidizing stone that would weave its power on everything near it. These potions are also very compatible with the Life Path, seem by the orderites as one of the most difficulty alchemical mysteries, and deeply linked with the soul. The mixture of both paths result in powerful life effects that can be more easily accomplished and then stored. Still, many don't pursue these because, without the matter sphere, Hermetic life magic is very hard to accomplish. The mystery of life requires everything to be balanced, or it may have grave consequences. Thus, the sphere is much weaker than the life sphere of other traditions without the help of alchemy. Finally, it is also possible
for disciples to deal with mixture of several mysteries, weaving them together into a single one.

An adept of alchemy is a bit of a terrifying sight. All of the previous mentioned knowledges are refined. He understands paths of change that are far more mystical and powerful. One example of these mysteries is the secret of dissolution, from which alkahest is created. To fully understand this power, it is useful to mention its opposite, the secret of restoration, which allows anything "destroyed" by the earlier mystery restored back, fully functional as it was. The composite mysteries also became more clear to the alchemist. That is, mysteries of elements that contain dozens, sometimes even hundreds, of other working elements in their composition. And while some of the creations may appear underwhelming to the modern mage, such as soil that never grows tired, the order had ice that was solid at 50 degrees Celsius way before Cat's Cradle was ever written. Though, to be sure, throwing it in the ocean would be bound to accumulate enough paradox to destroy it long before it could cover the world, but the same could be said about Ice 9.

Another aspect that becomes more clear is how forms of different elements can interlock into useful machinery for the mage. Sleeper architects have known for millennia the importance of arcs. But the adept knows the secret in the heart of that matter. He knows why the blade slices, why the wind chips away the earth, why arcs hold up so well. They know all that and much more, and they can use this knowledge in unthinkable ways to normal humans. They can blow a wind that is razor sharp, make fire freeze, sculpt both steel and water as if they were clay and then "bake" them into the format he desires. There are even legends of an alchemist who explored the sea inside an air bubble that would never go stale and that, like an arc, kept pressure inside the edges. Some forms, of course, have never been seen by mortals (or, for that matter, non hermetic mages) too. Usually, these reflect the opening of the element's ultimate mystery, however. For example, water is known to be mysterious, always hiding and enveloping men, boats, ships and treasure. It is said, that an alchemist that knows the true depth of water, it can be always shallow and clear, even in the middle of the ocean.

You may have noticed that the previous example had forms associated with certain elements (like arcs being a form of stone, and blades being a form of metal) being used outside these elements. That is because the adept also becomes able to change parts of the mystery of different elements. He thus can transfer the liquidity of water to a stone or even the air. He could grind the finger of a masterpiece statue into an elixir that held the properties of that art, and then use it in whatever he wanted to. A crappy statue, an unworked piece of stone, or even a person, and give the target the property of being a masterpiece too. With a bit more work, he could steal the essence of a piece of art, so he could distill the madness of the Scream painting, for example, into a poison. Mixing this ability with life, one could even do the reverse, infusing the mystery of life on stone or wood, for example. like Pygmalion or Gepeto.

The master of the discipline has what many consider divine power, though he actually understands a new road is just opening. First, masters become able to craft new mysteries. This is a hard endeavor, and can take many months, if not years, but he can create new elements that never existed before. The mysteries they can make are rather shallow, though. One often cited example is orichalcum, a psychomorphic metal, that is, it can be moved across the air or shaped according to a person's thoughts. The mystery of the Orichalcum is that it lacks a personality, so it mimics what others around it are thinking. It is a rather shallow mystery, though. It doesn't hide secret forms, uses or new ways into enlightening like most real material does. To make that is in the realms of the oracles only.

Besides this, the master begins to open up the path of the fifth element. The fifth element can be achieved not by mutation, but by transcendence. Each mystery holds, inside themselves, the secret to transcend its form into a more pure one. This transcendence can turn any matter into quintessence, for example. But, more interesting, it can turn matter into its platonic, ideal, form. This requires the mage to be able to use the prime sphere, however. Masters of both prime and matter can even create the fabled philosopher's stone, which can apply this transcendence process on anything it is used.

Finally, masters of matter are also said to be able to use mind and spirit on elements, as if they were spiritual beings rather than material. Thus, the mage can force an element to act outside the limits of its own mystery, for example. Though this is said to be really hard.

Foci: Mostly, not surprising, alchemy. In fact, the sphere and the foci are so linked no one knows of anyone not using alchemy on this sphere. Some mages may quickly discard their tools, but another tool would probably change the face of the sphere too much. Note that hermetic alchemy also makes extensive use of talismans and magic words. It isn't just mixing glowing liquids and explosions.​
Well. This is it. Thanks for reading this through and sorry if I rambled for a bit. I still hope you guys will go through this, and maybe give me your thoughts and opinions about my objectives and whether I am going in the right direction. I actually am hoping to play a second campaign on the net later on, f the first one works out. Though I am not sure the detailed nature of what I want to do will translate well.
 

Boris

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God, I hope this is copypasta.

We had this dude here, he stole Melcar's avatar and always posted tldr, and someone once said to him something along the lines of "you are like a supervillain called wordman"...
 
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Ulminati

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The wall of text is a bit much. Especially since I'm kinda enh about White Wolf products to begin with. Is there a question in there or a TL;DR version? I'm kind of hesitant to spend half an hour reading the wall o' text if it's just a giant infodump on Mage: The Ascended.
 

Alex

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It is ok. I posted this more as a question on whether the kind of campaign I was panning seemed a good idea, then I posted how I would change or define some stuff from the original game. Then I posted a variant of 3 spheres used by one of the traditions, explaining that those, and possibly more, would be used as examples to how players could get creative and customize their own player spheres. And again, sorry for being overly verbose. I don't know how I could have made it shorter, but maybe I should have written it all in several posts instead of a big one?
 

Zardoz

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For campaign direction you might want to define the player's mages or at least their traditions/faction first. Another idea would be to have them be apprentices to some big shot cabal by helping them out with their own ascension plans while they figure out their own path.
 

Alex

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For campaign direction you might want to define the player's mages or at least their traditions/faction first. Another idea would be to have them be apprentices to some big shot cabal by helping them out with their own ascension plans while they figure out their own path.

Yeah, thanks. I am talking about this future campaign, but what I am really discussing in this thread isn't even campaign specifics, but what the game will be about. Like, I know I gave an extensive example on the Order of Hermes, but I didn't mean to imply the game would focus around them. In fact, it would be ok with me if only one player decides to pick them up but wants to do something completely different for her/their spheres. I was just making an extensive example of what kind of thing I think would be cool for the players to come up with about their own spheres.

About the campaign itself, I am thinking of running one or two initial sessions for the players to come up with their own ideas about their PCs and their cabal (which could include your own suggestion, about them being apprentices). It will be up to the players whether they will be all from one tradition, all from different ones, all orphans or maybe even technocrats or what not. I think the only thing I wouldn't allow in my game is an outright nephandi, cause I really don't see what is the point of playing the monster, just like I don't see the point of playing Sabbat on Vampire. Well, maybe have a player who fell to the Nephandi ways act as a kind of second game master would be cool, though. But an outright monster campaign really seems to miss the point.

From there on, I plan to run things in a pretty sandboxy way.No predefined plots or on rail stories. Instead, I will come up with a few important "players" on the ascension war, on differing levels (local, regional, global) and let the players loose. What magic means to each individual PC, his quest to understand it, the way it works and ultimately how it can change the world should be the most important parts of the game. So I expect to do a lot dream play, interaction with spirits, avatar quests and paradox play too. I hope to make the game really personal for each individual player.
 

Zardoz

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Your campaign plan sounds good : open ended and taking time to introduce the game to the players as well. Spheres can be tricky to get confortable with since it's more about limitations than predefined powers/spells.

Character based plots are usually better and way more involving than some boring metaplot/deus ex machina crap. Players usually prefer to do what they want instead of being on the sidelines watching the uber npcs duking it out.

I had a blast running a Sabbat campaign with 2 packs of players but then again my group's a bunch of hellraisers for the most part who enjoy playing weird character concepts. Roleplaying more than one dimensional "monsters" can be fun too but we can't have all the same tastes after all.

Don't know much about the Nephandi but if they're only limited to the demonic toady concept then yeah it's probably better to limit the focus on them.
 

lightbane

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I always found the concept of Mage (both Ascension and Awakening) awesome, but I doubt I would find someone crazy enough to GM it, considering how many variables you must take into consideration to play it. Shame.
 

Alex

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Your campaign plan sounds good : open ended and taking time to introduce the game to the players as well. Spheres can be tricky to get confortable with since it's more about limitations than predefined powers/spells.

Exactly. This is one of the reasons I am taking an extra effort to make sure the spheres are customized. I think it should help the players see what is or isn't possible with each and how you can combine them. Of course, the answer will be different from mage to mage, but I see this as something good!

Character based plots are usually better and way more involving than some boring metaplot/deus ex machina crap. Players usually prefer to do what they want instead of being on the sidelines watching the uber npcs duking it out.

I've been playing Vampire with those guys for half an year now. Two of them GMed and both of them made open games, so, while I do have a lot to live up to, I also have a good idea of what to do.

I had a blast running a Sabbat campaign with 2 packs of players but then again my group's a bunch of hellraisers for the most part who enjoy playing weird character concepts. Roleplaying more than one dimensional "monsters" can be fun too but we can't have all the same tastes after all.

Well, I made that comment more general than I wanted. I can see a Sabbat game working pretty well, if you play it a bit more like a D&D game. With characters that are self centered, but still have a very good reason to help each other. It is just that if your characters are following those paths of enlightment, they are so inhuman that the basic idea of vampire as horror of a being at the edge of damnation kind of goes away.

Don't know much about the Nephandi but if they're only limited to the demonic toady concept then yeah it's probably better to limit the focus on them.

Nephandi can be pretty cool, I think, if you decide to be a little creative with them. The problem is that nephandi are supposedly to be fallen mages. People who walked past redemption and basically lost the most important thing about themselves. This can be a lot of fun to come up with concepts and play around, but in a way, the character is "dead". It doesn't have a big "stake" anymore. Its purpose is not to fight for something anymore, but to show what giving up your own soul means. Of course, playing with as character that is on the way to become such a thing can be a lot of fun too, as the character would still have a big stake. Whether he can turn around, or whether he damns himself for once and for all.

I always found the concept of Mage (both Ascension and Awakening) awesome, but I doubt I would find someone crazy enough to GM it, considering how many variables you must take into consideration to play it. Shame.

Well, if you don't mind playing on IRC, I think by february/march I might start the online game, if I can get enough people interested in playing with these weird rules. I will make a new topic about it once we are closer to that.
 

lightbane

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I wouldn't mind, but I have no idea how you're supposed to play this (more so with your rules), but it definitively sounds interesting, I'll keep watching and see what happens.

PS: Now that I remember, my favorite organization from OWoD Mages was the Technocracy, the idea of helping everyone to ascend was very cool (plus highly advanced tech!), but I doubt you'll allow that unless everyoene else is from the Technocracy as well.
 

Alex

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I don't mind games where players are a major source of antagonism against each other. That said, a lot of other people do seem to mind. Still, we could get a game going where there is enough pressure that technocratic and tradition mages would either need to work together or be both wiped out.

The thing about the technocracy is that even though they want to help everyone, there is a very nasty streak, specially on its higher echelons, that wants to destroy human creativity and passion in exchange for safety and normality This isn't uniform along all the conventions, of course. The New World Order is a lot more guilty of that than the void engineers. Still, in any pof the conventions you have good, naive mages who think they are helping the world alongside corrupt ones that just want more power for themselves. You have ethical scientists alongside those who, in secret, create those aberrations the technocracy is so known for.

Anyway, a technocratic campaign could be a lot of fun. You could even get some pretty weird spheres here. Maybe an economy sphere for the NWO that allows you to manipulate market forces? 3 dot effects creating invisible market hands and all? :D But if all else fails, you can always go for one of the technologically bent traditions. Sons of Ether were always a favorite of mine, and virtual adepts can be a lot of fun too. I mean, you can walk around the internet like if it was a physical place like Neuromancer's Matrix. Heck, you can even enter it phisically, so you can literally upload yourself to the other side of the world. And if all else fails, you can always be a renegade from the Technocracy too.

About understanding how to play it, don't worry too much, we can talk it out. I wrote the above text with people who had already played it in mind. Sorry about that.
 

lightbane

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Okay then, I'll wait and see what happens. What book are you planning to use? IIRC they had some differences, especially the Revised Edition.
 
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He will hopefully bee using the 2nd edition, revised took the setting in a direction I know he doesn't like much.

Are you setting the game in the present, Alex?
 

Alex

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lightbane

I am still not sure about the edition. But I don't plan to include the Avatar Storm and its consequences into the game, no matter what edition we use. That is not to say that this, or something like this, couldn't come to pass. But the way it is, the results in M:tA pull things too much in favor of the technocracy, and end up saying too much about stuff I would rather see defined during play, such as what avatars are. If we have an apocalyptic even, or if the Technocracy gets really close to its goals, this will be something to happen in play, and you will be able to affect it in some way.

Of the other details between editions, I am more or less familiar with the first and second. I will be using some stuff from second, such as extended ritual rules and spirits using spirit powers rather than magick. I will be using the idea of paradox explained above. In particular, the strength of a paradox, while somewhat determined by the strength of the magical effect that created it, is mostly determined by how impossible of a feat it seems to accomplish. So, disguising your magic somewhat is still better than simply bending all laws of physics. Also, I would like to incorporate the use of secondary skills into magic a little more.

The paradox rules already help with that, for example, knowing medicine is not at all necessary to heal someone with magic (your life sphere already teaches you what you need to know about how bodies work to heal them), but it can help you a lot if you want to pass your magic as coincidental. But I want a little more than that. In the correspondence sphere I described in my first post, I mentioned that astrology could be useful with the sphere. Maybe it could be used in a separate roll from the skill to set up a helping fact about magic. For example, you might roll astrology + intelligence to determine that a conjunction between two constellations is happening tonight, so if you were to create a portal between two points strongly related to these constellations, it would be much easier (-2 on difficulty).

That said, pretty much all I am writing here is up for discussion. If in the end you guys think all I wrote here are bad ideas and would rather play revised with no house rules, we can do that instead. Or try to argue until we can get to something that is good for all, or at least most

Excidium

About the timeframe, I was indeed thinking about the present. But like everything else, this is open for discussion.
 

Alex

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By the way, I have been going through some old supplements of mine, and while I did find a lot of what I disliked about White Wolf games, I not only found a lot I loved about it too, but I also found that most of what I disliked seems to be confined to the later books. Where revised editions of the books seem to be full of metaplot, with different set events altering the world in very specific ways, most of the earlier books are all about hinting things, leaving to the GM and the group the work of actually making that stuff usable.

I love that, because I think Mage should really be about conflict of wills and visions, not about the ancient history of some mage in Pluto who destroys the walls between the world of the dead and the living. So, what I plan to do is to is use the basic write up of traditions of the first edition, maybe with some tradition book stuff and later editions stuff that is interesting. Still, leaving a lot of details for any player who wants to use this or that group to flesh out. Still, the game will leave a lot of questions about these, and other questions, very open, so they can be answered in the most fitting way to what the players want to explore.

So, like, there are a lot of questions one might want to know that aren't answered. For example, what is the true nature of Avatars? Like are they souls, reflections, friendly spirits,a part of our minds (with a spiritual resonance)? This question might seem a bit frivolous, but this kind of thing is crucial to a good mage game. Not only because the mages are battling to establish their philosophies and world views, but also because such a question might have very strong implications. If a mage finds someone whose avatar has the memories of his long lost love, did he find the reincarnation of his sweetheart? Is here guiding that person instead? Did the remnants of her memories just flow into the person someway? And if so, is her essence lost forever, or does it lie still somewhere else.

I think that for a good game of Mage, we want to neither avoid nor to answer these questions from the outset. Instead, the fun of the game is in seeing where each individual mage's answer leads him, and how they interact and fight. So, I think these questions, whether they are physical or meta-physical, should be answered by the mage's view of reality, and as much a part of the stakes of the ascension war as anything else. Thus, if a mage sees his avatar as a guiding spirit rather than an integral part of himself, then the avatar will act accordingly. And should his view win out at the end of the ascension war (which may or may not be the focus of the game), then that will be the ultimate truth of the question.

In part, this is why I don't like the later Mage stuff that much. Some books may go through some pains to give the players some leeway as to how things will play out and what they can accomplish. But the metaplot heavy nature it took means that it needed to answer a lot of these interesting questions along the way, so the stories they had in mind could play out. Aside from that, I like the wild style of the earlier editions. I know, this may lead to some silly scenarios, like fighting a technocratic spaceship in Deep Umbra that kidnapped Santa Claus with your own steampunk rocket. Still, I think that if the game is player centric enough, this kind of absurd will only come to be if the players decide to pursue it.
 

felipepepe

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I would love playing, but I'm with a very weird schedule this year, and I'll probably miss many sessions... so I'll refrain myself from promising anything and ruining the fun, like I did with the MTG tournament.... :(
 

lightbane

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Alex
Less ranting about what do you wish to do and moar information about which books you're talking about (1st edition Mage I assume) and how would that work in gameplay mechanics. :rpgcodex:

Now seriously, your ideas sounds interesting, but we'll see if it can be done ingame, a Codexian party will most likely have... "Interesting" ideas about what magic/avatars/whatever are (assuming we don't simply eschew magical shit and plot for world domination :P)
 

Alex

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I would love playing, but I'm with a very weird schedule this year, and I'll probably miss many sessions... so I'll refrain myself from promising anything and ruining the fun, like I did with the MTG tournament.... :(

Well, I won't really officially announce the game until February, so if things change, you would be most welcome to join! Also, finding a common time with everyone can be the hardest part anyway, so we will see how things turn out.

Alex
Less ranting about what do you wish to do and moar information about which books you're talking about (1st edition Mage I assume) and how would that work in gameplay mechanics. :rpgcodex:

Ok, ok, sorry. I will make a write out for what specific rules we will use. I will try to have a post by saturday with the basic rules, showing a sample character written with this stuff in mind. I think mechanically, we may end up closer to 2nd edition, with even a bit of stuff from revised (I need to take a closer look before I decide). Also, I know I said this before, but the reason I am posting here isn't to decide this stuff, but to suggest. If someone doesn't want alternate spheres in the game, or think that we should definitely follow this or that writeup for some setting aspect, please, feel free to post here why. Even if you don't plan to play yourself.

On the topic of which books to use, however, you should feel free to take fluff stuff from any books, however. Of course, we will need to clear up everything so we don't end up contradicting each other. For example, if you are a celestial chorister, and part of your character concept requires them to be monolithic and uniform, then I shouldn't plan any adventure seeds that deal with their multifaceted nature. So, just feel free to look at any book or mention any supplement if they have something you like. In fact, feel free to look at stuff from outside the Mage line. I am including as examples of this dreamspeakers who have a gnosis sphere instead of spirit (and thus, draw some ideas and rules from Werewolf) and a vitae sphere for mages who studied vampires and their curse. But these are just examples of how you guys can get wild. Want to draw from that Street Fighter game so you Akashic mage's spheres double as fighting styles? Go ahead! Of course, we will need to make sure we are all on the same page before the game starts, but before that, feel free to go wild with suggestions.

Now seriously, your ideas sounds interesting, but we'll see if it can be done ingame, a Codexian party will most likely have... "Interesting" ideas about what magic/avatars/whatever are (assuming we don't simply eschew magical shit and plot for world domination :P)

Heh, that would be a hoot to play. We need to be a little careful in making the characters to make sure they are all on the same "page". If half of the players want the game to be an all out war against the technocracy, while a few others want it to be all about careful political maneuvers,and two just want to have fun in Umbra, things probably won't work out. That is not to asy that you will all need to want the same thing, of course. But the characters you make, the play you have in mind and the themes we touch must somehow come together as a whole, rather than a big patchwork with nothing in common.
 

Alex

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Hey, it is still february! :D

Anyway, sorry, I have had a lot of work lately. Still, I should hopefully make a post here with house rules and what not this week if everything goes well.
 

lightbane

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Hey, it is still february! :D

Anyway, sorry, I have had a lot of work lately. Still, I should hopefully make a post here with house rules and what not this week if everything goes well.

:M
 

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