Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Muirthemne won't allow a continuous portal. No sane government would. It's a doorway for Lovecraftian horrors to inevitably sweep through. I think making plans around this is just a bad idea.
As for the loan, well, if the king actually offers us an extensive one at that interest rate I'd be all for it, but it honestly feels like gaming the system to me at this point and I doubt Fangshi would allow it. There's the opportunity cost for the king afterall, in regards to what he could actually be doing with that sum. That and what collateral are we offering him? What is he to do if we die?
It's for these reasons I'm not even bothering considering such a loan.
As for the loan, well, if the king actually offers us an extensive one at that interest rate I'd be all for it, but it honestly feels like gaming the system to me at this point and I doubt Fangshi would allow it. . There's the opportunity cost for the king afterall, in regards to what he could actually be doing with that sum.
It has an in-universe explanation, though. The Eberhardts controlled 3/4th of the country's finances. The government got ahold of the assets of about 20 houses - somewhere around 3000 gold in liquid cash, and much more than that in other properties. They don't even have enough people to manage it all.
Giving away the extra cash on loans does sound like a decent solution to the 'problem'.
The only gamey part about that is the low interest rate... and, well, it can be adjusted if it gets too outrageous.
Mayer is a partner, and he is not going anywhere. If we die, our share in the joint venture wll go to the Muirthemne branch, and the loan will be theirs, as well as all the property we aquired. If they die, too, I guess it all goes to Mayer. If he dies as well, Albrecht can take it back.
The same property we buy will serve as a collateral. I don't think Albrecht will require more than that after what we did for him if we limit ourselves to buying assets in the dwarven lands only.
It is workable.
The downside, of course, is that we won't be seeing much income until we pay off the loan.
You know who the Brannons are. They are one of the most powerful families in the entire empire. The patriarch of the family is the emperor's minister of finance, his brother is one of the largest landholders in the west.
How safe it would be to have our assets in Muirthemne when we are one sneeze away from making enemies out of the most influental people that govern the Empire?
Nope, I prefer to earn my money where they can't be taken away.
Think of the loan, especially to buy property in the city that can be used as collateral, as an inducement to keep us interested in the Dwarven Kingdom and partially under the thumb of the King. He can use that leverage to cause us to act when we might not on our own volition. If the money is just going to sit in a vault anyway, it isn't a horrible trade.
I just find the whole situation absurd, grotesque and surreal.
Just... why? What was that indwarven cruelty for? Don't they hire professionals anymore? Why did they need to ensure the captives would not flee if they didn't intend to return them? Why did they keep the prisoners alive for three days straight? For... fun? I mean, there was absolutely no benefit to it. No purpose... nothing.
I guess this exists to show how ruthless the Eberhardts were and to justify our retaliation, but it still does not make any sense. All that transpired was a result from the actions of one of the Eberhardt's minions, Ullr, and the people he hired. The responsibility for the act is on him. This does not reflect all that much on the rest of the Eberhardts, and some of them surely had kids of their own.
Yet it was enough for Derryth to absolve herself from any guilt she might have felt towards them when she went on a crusade against them. I guess I can hardly blame her. Still, the situation would be downright comedic if it wasn't so horrible - thousands of people are dead, whole families extinguished, the gallows working non-stop for days on end just because one moron wanted to make a quick buck by turning our friend in.
I guess we might want to enforce the rule that no assholes are allowed in our organization. They are too expensive to keep around.
You will use Albrecht to get as many mandrake roots as you can, you will then link up with your other two mages and cast the spell to restore Trakk's son and granddaughter.
If it works then they should recover somewhat but there is a lot of damage and it may take multiple castings to heal them. If it does not work it should not harm them but it could permanently cripple you or your friends or it may kill one or all of you.
Just to make sure, Fangshi, where the risks are coming from? From what I've read, the most probable cause is exhaustion. A Healing spell is enough to leave a person drained for a day, and I assume it only gets worse with the Greater Healing.
But don't mandrake roots take care of this problem?
Alternatively, what happens if you link more people, like tens of people, use them as batteries and spread the strain evenly?
Is the power source even the main problem?
When it comes to magic rituals, I'd rather pay the price in coins and hours than in blood and lives.
Muirthemne won't allow a continuous portal. No sane government would. It's a doorway for Lovecraftian horrors to inevitably sweep through. I think making plans around this is just a bad.
The only time we used the gate spell and had issues with Lovecraftian horrors was when we were helping the fetch cross planes. We held a gate open for three days without issue when we were looting. It seems using the spell on non planar travel is much safer.
Fangshi said:
Preparations Part 1:
You sigh and relax.
It is the third day you have spent holding the gate open. You and your Circle arrived at the secondary vault four days ago. It was only when you saw it that you realized just how much wealth the old empire had. There is more gold here than in entire imperial cities. You and your friends are rich... very rich. At first you had intended to simply carry everything by wagon but that would take far too long. Instead you opened a gate to your tower and let your warriors and the children carry everything through. It will take weeks to clear out the vault and the smaller holdings of the three Damned Orders but you are willing to take the time. Everyone is in high spirits and your collective success has kept conflicts to a minimum. Finally you have time to just relax and enjoy the fruits of the last few months labour. You know it won't last but you remind yourself to take things one step at a time. Patience and cunning will take care of the rest.
How high are the start up costs, and what revenue we are looking at? Can Mayer give a rough estimate? For example, for every 100 WP invested we are looking at a 5 WP montly income. 2 years for covering the initial investment costs are not unfathomable, hell, with bigger properties and Mayer's business sense it might take even shorter.
Well it is randomized to a degree since there are other interested parties competing here with Mayer but he knows his business well. He can probably get you a return of 15 WPs monthly for every 50 WPs you sink here. It might be a bit higher, it might be a bit lower. It will likely take a month or so to get everything organized and up and running though given the state the kingdom will be in, in the short term.
I will include financing options for Mayer in the next update once your strategy has been chosen since it should not impact the narrative much, simply the options you have available and the money you make.
Nevill said:
Oh, and have the girls work on mastering Heal as well.
Sure, that is a sensible precaution. They can work on it during your daily meetings.
Nevill said:
I would like to take a loan, though, to be able to cover the 2A part, and make use of the returns to pay off the loan with time.
0,1% monthly interest sounds so miniscule, it is basically free money. From every 1000 WP on loan, we pay one monthly. Meanwhile, they will make us tens, if not hundreds.
You can take out a loan if you want but it will not be at 0.1% interest. That was a courtesy to you from the King. He was essentially gifting you the funds discretely to avoid Eberhardt attention.
If you request a loan as large as 1000 WPs you will not get such a generous rate of interest since you will be competing against the other royalist noble houses.
If he gave you that much money with that low an interest rate it would be clear to everyone with eyes to see it that he is trying to use you to seize absolute control of the kingdom. It would completely alienate the remaining houses (most of which are great houses) and could push things towards a civil war if the remaining nobles feel threatened enough by the advantage he would give you.
As such he can not give you a loan for those purposes. If you want that sort of loan you are looking at the standard 20% monthly interest rate and it will have to be from the Goldsmith Guild (they would be used as an intermediary to ensure everything looks above board) and even then it would seem a little like favouritism. Mayer could also float you a loan but it would be in the range of a few hundred WPs only. He does not believe in charity so you are looking at a 15% interest rate there.
If the property option wins in question 2. then I will include financing options in the next update, otherwise things might get a bit too complicated.
Smashing Axe said:
Fangshi, if we decide to go for long-term profits with properties, how will the money be delivered to us in Muirthemne?
Yes, that could be done I did not want to make the list too complicated though. The way I can do that is if property or equipment win then I can include an option on the next update to take some of the reward in cash. If you take the letter then I will also add another question to the next update if you want to ask for wealth as well (the options will be for smaller sums naturally).
Mby it dont have to be hard to detect after all. If we will get a permission from Empire administration and Kingdom administration to open gate with lets say 10-15% cut of toll we will get on gate. We will still have monopoly on profits from it and possible additional gain from Assets we could pass through it.
Sure, if you decide to try and open a Gate and if you manage to do it part of setting up the business will be negotiating with the King for his cut of the profits. It can be discussed if it gets to that point.
Albrecht will have concerns though, he does not want you letting demons and the like into his kingdom so you would have to demonstrate to him that the process is safe.
Nevill said:
Just... why? What was that indwarven cruelty for? Don't they hire professionals anymore?
"Sort of... some of them... The Eberhardts were not kind though. One of the kids made it, Trakk's youngest granddaughter, and the girl's father is alive as well... what is left of him... from what the team tell me it was a real mess. Most of them were on death's door. The only mercy for them was to kill them..." he coughs, "Don't worry though. We have that son of a bitch jailer sitting in a cell in the royal prisons. I am going to pay him a few visits. Show him what a professional can do..."
Why did they need to ensure the captives would not flee if they didn't intend to return them? Why did they keep the prisoners alive for three days straight? For... fun? I mean, there was absolutely no benefit to it. No purpose... nothing.
The short answer is that the Eberhardt staff did it because they were bored and had nothing else to do. The dwarf that served as a jailer and torturer in an illegal, secret prison was not kind and lacked a certain basic empathy for others.
Nevill said:
I guess this exists to show how ruthless the Eberhardts were and to justify our retaliation, but it still does not make any sense. All that transpired was a result from the actions of one of the Eberhardt's minions, Ullr, and the people he hired. The responsibility for the act is on him. This does not reflect all that much on the rest of the Eberhardts, and some of them surely had kids of their own.
Not quite. Characters do not necessarily have access to all the information they need when they make their decisions. Eberhardt had no idea what his supporters were up to there. He was probably disgusted by what he saw at the trial as well. Though it is entirely possible that he believed that Albrecht had done this to Trakk's family and that they were simply more falsified 'evidence' to be used against him.
If this were a fair, impartial, 'modern' court then yes. The blame should have stopped with Ullr but Albrecht did not want Ullr dead, did not need Ullr dead. Ullr is a nobody. Albrecht wanted Eberhardt and his entire faction dead, there was no mistake here, the King got the exact outcome he hoped for.
It is worth noting that it does bother Derryth that so many people died on her testimony but she is not really the type to feel guilty about it to begin with and her concern for Biliku and Uttu is capable of easily overriding any concern she might feel for strangers.
Nevill said:
Just to make sure, Fangshi, where the risks are coming from? From what I've read, the most probable cause is exhaustion. A Healing spell is enough to leave a person drained for a day, and I assume it only gets worse with the Greater Healing.
Yes, your body could give out. The spell works like a Heal spell only is much longer and more demanding. Instead of simply exhausting you, it can kill you. If you run out of energy, it will start to consume you to keep the spell going. At that point if you can not break it off you will die. There is no danger to the patient but a fair bit to the caster.
Nevill said:
But don't mandrake roots take care of this problem?
They will give you a power source but you will need a lot of them. Still as long as you have enough it should limit some of the danger. You have never cast the spell before so there is always the possibility that something could go wrong.
Nevill said:
Alternatively, what happens if you link more people, like tens of people, use them as batteries and spread the strain evenly?
Taking a 200wp loan from Mayer will take 6 months to pay down the principal plus interest and there after a net 60wp a month.
Assuming a 25% return due to higher competition due to larger purchasing amount
Taking a 1000wp loan from the King will pay back principal and interest in 11 months and then provide 250wp per month. Even with a 22.5% return the loan is paid off in 21months with a net 225wp. Dueling compounding interest are insane how fast their little differentials run away from each other.
Hmm btw if we will get 1A could we buy some properties for Mayer? I think he knows what was confiscated by crown, what of those could make most profit and it helps to avoid increased cost.
On other hand if we will get money from king lets say 750 and invest it with Mayer 50/15 wp. We will get 225 wp/m income. With 500 we will get 150 wp/m.
Wonder how much we can get from 1A/2B.
About the message back to Muirthemne, why not using both? 3WP seems like petty cash compared to our expenses, and it would add a back-up in case either of those messages is intercepted and lost / modified.
If this were a fair, impartial, 'modern' court then yes. The blame should have stopped with Ullr but Albrecht did not want Ullr dead, did not need Ullr dead. Ullr is a nobody. Albrecht wanted Eberhardt and his entire faction dead, there was no mistake here, the King got the exact outcome he hoped for.
Oh, no, Albrecht's side of the story is completely understandable. I don't think he can afford concerns about fairness when they threaten to take his kingdom back from him. And the motivations of Derryth are transparent to an extent - it is better that they die than we do, and there are no simple solutions to the internal strife of that caliber. At least the army didn't get invoved and it didn't come to a full blown rebellion.
Still, when you go back to the event that lit the fuse under the barrel, it screams 'for want of a nail'.
If you request a loan as large as 1000 WPs you will not get such a generous rate of interest since you will be competing against the other royalist noble houses.
As such he can not give you a loan for those purposes. If you want that sort of loan you are looking at the standard 20% monthly interest rate and it will have to be from the Goldsmith Guild (they would be used as an intermediary to ensure everything looks above board) and even then it would seem a little like favouritism. Mayer could also float you a loan but it would be in the range of a few hundred WPs only. He does not believe in charity so you are looking at a 15% interest rate there.
If the property option wins in question 2. then I will include financing options in the next update, otherwise things might get a bit too complicated.
Guys, I think we must do this. The profits we are looking at can cover the interest rate and net us a small surplus, and we can pay off the rest of the loan with the income from the property we buy with our own money.
Taking a 1000wp loan from the King will pay back principal and interest in 11 months and then provide 250wp per month. Even with a 22.5% return the loan is paid off in 21months with a net 225wp. Dueling compounding interest are insane how fast their little differentials run away from each other.
You forget that the interest rate is conted on a monthly basis. So after 11 months, if we are paying 200 WPs out of 250 WPs of profits to keep the interest rate from growing, we are looking at 550WPs of profits with the loan still in place. It will take us 20 months to cover it fully with this payment scheme. Sounds reasonable.
Assuming a 30% pay-off rate it will take us 10 months.
Kz3r0, asxetos, what are your preferences for the 7th option? You seem to be counted as A, but you might want to choose a different approach.
That right there was a missed opportunity to find out what is it that Mayer wants.
I wonder when he decides to tell us what exactly is wrong with his wife. Sure, with his resourses he have probably tried everything already, but he does not have access to the Falled Lords and the Ultimate Archmages, does he?
4. A) Warn them about Trakk
E) Warn them about the Watcher, tell them to look out for contracts on hunting necromancers, see if they can gauge anything useful out of this
5. A) Yes, 12 for each mage, 36 total cubes
6. A) Additional arrows for Uttu (1WP = 2 quivers)
B) Seven pieces of nice, basic jewelry. (5 WPs)
Some interesting developments since I was last here. Voting:
1) F > C > Bii - I would like to ask the king for permission to open a permanent portal to the capitol of the empire. If we pull this off we could start a profitable partnership for everyone involved, us, the kingdom and the empire. Also, can we get more than one choice here? I don't see a letter giving us access to the Academy costing that much. 2) B
3) A
4) A B E
5) A - as many as possible 6) C - buy the broken power source once our inventor friend wakes up and takes a look at it. 7) C > A - with access to the Academy this should be easier. And it's not like we are a complete amateur when it comes to fixing broken minds either, we are a mentalist, aren't we? I don't like the possible questions in B, though I don't really see why would knowing a greater heal be that suspicious. Every mage in this world has secrets.
I don't think you need a favor from the King to open a portal.
The benefits for the kingdom are so obvious, that he would do it anyway once we prove it is safe and offer him a share of profits - and if it is not safe, I doubt he'll do it even as a favor.
It will depend on what is chosen. If the letter is chosen then I will include the option to choose more (smaller) rewards in the next update. Similarly if the assets or items are chosen I will also include an option to choose smaller rewards as well with any remaining 'favours' or goodwill you might have. For the time being though this vote will be limited to one choice to keep it manageable for me. I have to count all these votes after all.
Zero Credibility said:
I would like to ask the king for permission to open a permanent portal to the capitol of the empire.
The benefits for the kingdom are so obvious, that he would do it anyway once we prove it is safe and offer him a share of profits - and if it is not safe, I doubt he'll do it even as a favor.
He would likely be open to the idea but Derryth thinks you should only approach him once everything is in place and you can guarantee that it will work. You do not want him reject the idea as impossible or too dangerous. There may also be the possibility that he would try to copy the idea for himself which you might want to avoid. Though that might just be paranoia on Derryth's part.
Zero Credibility said:
though I don't really see why would knowing a greater heal be that suspicious. Every mage in this world has secrets.
Only Heron Guard specialize in healing magics as far as anyone knows and advanced healing magics are very rare. He would be curious who you learnt that from since it would most likely be a Heron Guard or a Journeyman and they really are not supposed to share their spells with outsiders. Naturally you can not tell him who actually taught you to the spell.
Sure, don't see why not, just assume it came up during your conversation with him. He was taught by a Journeyman how to utilize the magic in the roots and how to collect them without dying. He can not actually cast Heal spells as he is not a real Journeyman, just a gifted amateur, a prodigy you could say...
Nine taught you (she is just so very helpful). You learnt it during the Revelations update. Serpent left the mandrake roots behind and Nine taught you how to cast with them. You then taught Serpent how to properly do it when you met back up at the Offices. He used the theory he knew about the mandrake roots in conjuction with the magical theory you taught him during your trip and the pointers Nine gave you to quickly master the spell and heal up the wounded (It was a combination of his preexisting skills, Quick Learner trait and his unrivaled INT that let him do it).
Here you go:
Fangshi said:
"Thaïs, I need more light here!" she brings the lantern closer to your patient, Jori the dwarf, currently resting on death's door. As she does so Amena hands you another mandrake root. Nine has been guiding you in their use but you are still wasting about half the energy in them, you simply do not have the skill that Serpent does.
You crack the root open and the magical energy pours forth into your hands, already it is dissipating. As Nine explained it, healing spells are bound up in notions of sacrifice, empathy and life. You think of spring, you think of fields in bloom, of the natural world under a warm sun and you cast. Ivory strings extend from your fingers, worming their way into the dwarf's wounds. As they clean the wounds and sop up the blood they shift in tone to a light seashell, the slightest tint of pink bleeding into the spell. The strings work quickly to remove debris and to close the wound. You are left a little tired but you have much more work to do before you can rest.
On second thought I have added this as well should people want to pursue it right away. You can pursue it at a later date as well.
Ghaad said:
About the message back to Muirthemne, why not using both? 3WP seems like petty cash compared to our expenses, and it would add a back-up in case either of those messages is intercepted and lost / modified.
Given the new info, I'll adjust my voting. Asking the king for the portal can wait until we secure the power source and prove that this really works.
For the cubes I'll go along with what everyone is voting, I just meant that you can never have too many of these things they way we are burning through them.
Fangshi, do our friends have any way to verify if the letter is genuine? I guess we didn't establish these precautions.
One way I can see it ending is that the letter falls in the hands of Trakk and his mercenaries. In that case it gives him a perfect excuse to infiltrate our ranks, as he can replace the letter.
I guess we might want to plan around that.
Say, wasn't Brigit into riddles? We might want to cipher the letter with a simple code, and give them instructions in plain text on how to decipher it with a certain key, the key being something that only the members of our circle know. Say, Nine's name, or the name of our circle, or anything from our adventures in Muirthemne we didn't share with anybody else.
