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Myth: A New Age CYOA

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by Fangshi, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. asxetos Augur

    asxetos
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    Mazzarin was pretty vulnerable until we restored him. If we have a slim chance against the Watcher, now is the time. If he gets restored later we will be hopeless.
    Still, i accept it is a big (probably stupid) risk but ghol extermination or leaving our gold behind seem pretty stupid too.
     
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  2. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    Nope. Kill her and be done with it. She's the Watcher's pawn.

    ...

    Though, could be amusing if we could find Mazzerin and have her swear fealty to him, have him replace the Watcher's necklace with one of his own... :troll:
     
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  3. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    Why kill her though? Female ghols are worth quite a bit to the dwarves. We could sell her off after mindblanking her (So she can't use magic) and make back some of the money she stole.

    Edit: Please, please don't tell me that the make Derryth friends with every living creature under Wyrd's green earth agenda applies to ghols
     
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  4. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Nope. Not indulging in trading sentient species or forced breeding programs.

    I admit, though, the idea of giving her to Mazzarin sound intriguing, but knowing how he treats his own allies, not to mention slaves, he'd kill her sooner rather than later, and it would ultimately be a waste of time and effort.

    I'd leave her alive and think of a use for her, but her necklace sounds like trouble. It lets the others to keep track of her.

    Killing her is probably our best bet.

    Why, yes. I have it on a good authority that there are shapeshifting spells in the setting, so ultimately we can turn everything under the stars into females for ultimate lesbomancy. This is a pretty big incentive to minimize losses to our future harem.

    Seriously, though, if we are enemies it does not necessarily mean we have to torture them, sell them into slavery and rape their corpses. I hold Ceannard as a role model in that regard. He is a professional, and he respects us for not taking unnecessary actions against those who oppose us. Yesterday's enemy might turn into an ally tomorrow, given the right circumstances. I do not think the sentiment is wasted, even on ghols. Who knows what happens down the road? We certainly did not expect to wind up with a former necromancer as a crew member.
     
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  5. Jester Arbiter

    Jester
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    Name for skill. ENTER OF THUNDER COLOSSUS! (could be colossus fall from heaven.)
     
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  6. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    Why not? Myth morality is not the same as modern morality, and the situation here is not exactly analoguous to any real world one. These are brutal monsters who regularly eat humans and dwarves. Plus, they serve the Dark, and we serve the Light!!! Therefore, whatever we do to them is completely moral and justified. Dwarves serve the Light and ghol slavery is their favourite pasttime, after all. There's no dwarf abolitionists for a reason, because when dealing with ghols the choice is either genocide or finding a humane way of dealing with them, integrating them into society at large (servitude). How is this any different from breeding or trading horses? Horses are, after all, sentient. I'm pretty sure we've bought and sold a horse before, that makes us complicit in the trading of sentient beings! Plus, as far as I'm aware, no horse has ever eaten a human.

    Remember, the ghols stole our money, and we're claiming it back with required service. Hell, it's probably better than debtor's prison.

    Really, we're more morally justified in enslaving the ghol than killing her. With servitude she has a chance of attaining peace and happiness, with death she has none. Why are you such a heartless monster Nevill?
     
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  7. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    But the dwarves are brutal monsters who enslave and eat them.

    Honestly, I would rather not involve ourselves in their civil war too much.

    Is that why we are trying our best not to show ourselves in front of the Imperial authorities and specifically Alric?

    Let's be honest, we are not the shining beacons of the Light, even if you squint really hard. :lol:

    Horses can't talk. That's pretty much all there is to it. Ghols and mauls and whatnot are sentient on the human level. The rest is sophistry.

    I don't think someone stealing our money warrants selling them into slavery.

    But, hey. It's not like we don't know where you stand on the matters of morality. So feel free to pitch the morally justified ways. :)
     
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  8. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Wut? I'm sorry dude, that's just so fucked up. :lol:
     
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  9. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    You are of course, advocating ghol genocide, at least in this region. For the dwarves it really is a dichotomy between servitude or genocide and that isn't going to change. Is that the solution you wish to advocate? Murdering the ghol is a good first step, I suppose.

    Far better to integrate the ghol into dwarf society and provide her with a valuable role contributing greatly to her people's continued survival in the hard years to come.
     
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  10. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    I thought I mentioned that I intend to solve it all with lesbomancy by turning the ghols into beautiful naked ladies. And if the dwarves object to it, we will turn them, too.

    But for now I am willing to not interfere in their war, doing what is necessary to protect us and our standing in the Kingdom (that is, repelling the attacks on dwarven lands), but going no further.

    :lol:

    Here is a hug.:hug: Don't worry, bro, Cthulhu LP is not too far away.
     
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  11. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    Hm. So what you're saying is that your criteria is based upon the ability to communicate effectively? Or are you very fond of vocal chords?

    Since Derryth is a mentalist, I propose we perform an experiment to further define her morality. Perhaps she could try mentally communicating with a horse about its desires and wants. If it communicates this to us with its mind, then it must be sapient enough to fit under your criteria. That would make us complicit in the slavery of sapients, which would mean that we need some other criteria as a basis to define slavery. Or turn PETA.

    How about a bet? If we're able to understand the horse's desires through mentalism (which is itself a form of communication), you agree that in order to act consistently with all our past actions of horse slavery, we treat the ghol under the same criteria as a horse. And sell it.

    If we can't, if the horse is unable to think of what it wants and is a complete slave to lower urges, then I'll uh, think of a better argument.

    Deal?
     
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  12. Nevill Arcane

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    No deal. I don't appreciate sophistry.

    Yes, I base my criteria on having vocal chords, on having an advanced enough intelligence to form a civilization (that rivals the dwarven one, BTW), to handle various tools, to have complex enough oral traditions to establish a religion (even though it is centered around the Dark Gods) and on a million other things that are not easily quantified.

    These creatures are too close to humans for comfort. So, being the humanoid supremacist that I am, I extend the same courtesies to them that I would to our human enemies.

    Sue me.

    Edit: Oh, but if you ever stumble upon a horse poet or an engineer, or even a seer or a shaman, publish your discovery immediately. This would go a long way to prevent the horse conspiracy Jester was talking about.
     
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  13. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Jawbone is hesitant to say just how much was there but you press him and get an answer. The vault contained 45 WPs worth of legitimately earned gold enough to finance the operation of the organization for another month. It also contained a further 200 WPs worth of illegally obtained diamonds acquired through trafficking in dwarven slaves. Naturally it is not on the books and 'does not exist' as far as everyone is concerned. He says he was going to tell you, when the time was right, he just did not want you to think too poorly of his organization. He stresses that they are 'good people' but that they just 'do what they are told'.

    So the sum is quite substantial.

    She is at the very least minor ghôlish royalty. The prices that you could get for her would be quite high if you did decide to sell her on.

    The Royal Academy would be quite interested in a ghôlish leader in good condition, particularly a mage, to experiment on. They could probably give you 400 WPs for her, she would die of course, probably painfully but you would make out wonderfully.

    The King would pay you 250 WPs and serve her as the dish of honour in a banquet in your name. It would be decent publicity and if he quadruples the normal guards he would probably be willing to do it. The upside of that is that you can immediately scramble her mind and turn her into a vegetable so there would be much less risk. It would also give you a good opportunity to meet the assorted nobles and royals you will work with in the future. If you did go through with such an option then you would be expected to partake in the meal which would be difficult for Derryth and Thaïs since they have spoken to Nanshe now.

    She is in good shape so the slave masters would probably give you 125 to 150 WPs if you took her to them. She is a mage though so you would have to scramble her mind first which would reduce the ultimate payout you can get.

    Alternatively you could break her mind and attempt to steal all the magical and mundane knowledge she knows as in Bii.

    Or on the other end of the spectrum you could treat her like a person and/or a prisoner of war. Derryth does sort of like and respect her even though they are technically enemies.

    Really Derryth could go either way on this. Her extensive past experience with followers of the 'Dark' has made her more open to considering them as actual 'people' rather than just enemies/food/slaves, however she is also pragmatic enough that she would be willing to do most things to her enemies if it helped her cause. This one is completely up to the voters.

    One caution though, do not leave her alone with the dwarves or they will murder her or sell her on eventually. Right now Derryth is using maul and human guards only as there is far less racial tension there.

    Also it is worth remembering that the dwarves really hate ghôls. In the Empire someone like Nanshe might (and I stress might) be given a chance in some circles as long as she did not break the laws. In the Kingdom, openly aiding her would be a death sentence. This is largely down to the social attitudes of each state, the ghôls are to the dwarves as the myrkridia are to the humans. Ancient and 'irreconcilable' enemies. However if you make it back to the Empire you will also notice that Alric's administration holds the law in much higher regard than Albrecht's. Even the secretive Imperial Police are bound by certain restrictions and a certain sort of 'privilege' is extended to all subjects of the empire regardless of race. Alric does (or at least appears to) hold justice as an ideal in very high regard where as Albrecht largely pays it lip service.

    There are a number of valleys and passages running through the mountains. Your escorts assure you that chariots can move through them if in a limited fashion and they could be useful if you happen to catch the ghols in a valley of on the plains around the Great Devoid. You might not be able to take the most direct route however and you might be put in a situation where you are required to split your forces. Two horses to each chariot, four to the wagon, you will have to stick to the major passes with them. Really it all depends on where you hope to fight them and when you can catch them. The chariots could also be used to deploy infantry or create a barricade if needed.

    A few things to consider. The escort captain really does not want you to go without him. If you die under his watch he will be expected to commit ritual suicide to preserve the honour of his clan. Derryth also is not a military commander and Berty has little experience with cavalry or mounted forces in general. They think that the chariots might be useful but they do not know if they will be.

    Not much bigger, if you cast it on a six foot tall person they might gain two inches, maybe three. It does increase the weight of the target a fair bit though. An eagle would not be able to fly, it would weigh too much. Berty began to drop almost immediately but he was also practically on top of Nanshe when you cast the spell. You would not be able to ride on the eagles back, not even close. Same with the claws, it simply would not work. For that you would need some sort of Giant Eagle but such things do not exist as far as you know. Maybe in the Ermine perhaps?

    About fifty seconds. Maybe a minute if you wanted to totally exhaust your capabilities.

    I forgot the general 'dispose of her and forget about it' option. I will add it as D.

    I like it! Added to Organization sheet under 'Group Techniques'. :salute:
     
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  14. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    I assume that if we label it as 'valuables captured from ghol marauders' that might take care of the legal aspect? It would be the ghols' money, not ours?

    Or will it raise eyebrows due to a rather high amount we are talking here?

    Does that mean that if we want to pursue the ghols, we'll have to kill her?
     
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  15. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    Hm, so I want to sell the ghol to someone (Should recoup our losses and then some, overall a great success! Better check the lower levels just in case the ghols left frozen wight parts or something in the lower levels for a timed explosion), but I also want to try and scout the Watcher's location and pass that on to Brobrecht to do with as he pleases. The offset gain is worth staying outside of the Watcher's reach. Also if we give the ghol to Brobrecht we become even more popular and get more excuses to make nice with the nobility. This is technically not slavery, but imprisonment of a terrorist, which is of course a big difference and morally acceptable.

    If we break her mind in II and III does that mean we can learn her secrets to boot?
     
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  16. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Naturally. I wonder if they eat or breed terrorists for baby meals.

    Oh, wait, they kill them.

    Nevermind, do continue. :D
     
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  17. Smashing Axe Arcane Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    Oh, I misread that. I thought she'd be chained up at the feast dressed in a spikey, painful fool's costume and the dwarf "guest of honour". Like this
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
    I wasn't being very literal when Fangshi said the king would have her for dinner. Still, better to eat her and mitigate famine than to let precious protein go to waste needlessly. You suggested killing her anyway. This is just a more conscientious method.
     
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  18. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Yes, you should be able to get away with that as long as everyone keeps the secret. None of the dwarves will care if you take things from the ghôls.

    It depends on how you go about it.

    If you attack her war party she will not like it but they are 'soldiers' and this is 'war'. She will not hate you for it really though she would prefer if her people survived.

    If you attack her home which would likely mean the death or enslavement of 'non-combatants' then yes you will probably have to kill her and she will hate you for it.

    If you bring dwarves with you when you pursue her people it almost guarantees bloodshed. If you don't then you do not know what will happen but your force will be quite a bit smaller.

    If you take her with you when you pursue her followers but you chose not to bring anyone other than dwarves to guard her you will either have to use your own people or you will have to accept the risk that she might 'choke' on one of her meals.

    If you leave her behind and do not leave a proper guard on her with a capable officer in charge then do not count on her being alive when you get back.

    There are probably more combinations I have not listed and results are never guaranteed but it is clear to Derryth that you do not mix dwarves and ghols without taking serious risks.


    If you succeed you can take all the information you want in whatever condition you find it.

    To clarify, if you shatter her mind you might break a few things but you can take whatever parts you want and if there is anything left intact you can have that as well. She may have defences and she will probably try to kill herself somehow but Derryth will try to take precautions.
     
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  19. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    The best part is that we would have to be the ones eating that. Eww.

    I say, just do The Watcher's Keep. It's the best location in BG2, we won't be disappointed.

    Wait, there is a peaceful resolution to this? They have our money! :D

    Or do you mean they will attack the tribe (or 'home', or whatever)? We don't even know where that is.
     
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  20. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Derryth has no clue if this can be resolved peacefully in a satisfactory manner but if you bring the dwarves the already slim odds essentially drop to just this side of zero.

    No that is Bii, where you torture the location of her home from her and marshal all your forces to attack it. In A you are still hoping to hit the war party before they get back.
     
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  21. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Eh, to hell with the odds. I might not be inclined to eat them or give them away to slavers to rape them and have them produce babies to eat (seriously, this is some Dwarf Fortress merpeople factory level of disturbing), but they are still our enemies and the Watcher's agents.

    Killing them is likely the only courtesy I can grant them, given that the other fates are often worse than death.
     
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  22. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    To release her? Interesting choice. But I'd rather pursue the ghols who have stolen from us. This would be a good opportunity to test our new company and Berty's skills, and it would help spread the right message. If you mess with us, we mess with you right back.

    A) You will attempt to catch up to the ghôls using the information given by Neel.

    Individuals:
    i. Derryth (war party leader)
    ii. Thaïs (duh)
    iii. Lyssa and her Eagles (scouts and support)
    iv. Berty Levy (military tactician)
    v. Biliku (an officer and a student - besides, what else is there to do for her if we all go?)
    vi. Uttu (same)
    vii. Myora (muscle)
    viii. Rand (not sure if he is needed... Fangshi, what is his skillset?)
    ix. Nanshe (just no. I also propose a separate option where we kill her as a courtesy. No slavery shenanigans. We do seem to respect her, after all)

    Assets: (Your archers are all our acting as scouts. They will join up with you if they can.)
    x. Your escort. Fourty members of the Royal Army they are some of the best soldiers you have they have a deep hatred of ghôls as all dwarves do. Dismounted they are amongst your slowest infantry forces. (too many, too slow. Besides, this is our business, not theirs)
    xi. Your escort's chariots. 20 light chariots, if it comes to a fight they could be decisive provided you have the room to use them. (greater mobility, infantry transportation - you name it, the chariots can do it)
    xii. Your carriage. If you want to move quickly there is no finer way provided you can find a clear route.
    xiii. Twenty Blackrock grenadiers.
    (if we can fit them on the chariots)
    xiv. Sixteen Blackrock dwarven warriors. (same)
    xv. Eight Blackrock human warriors. Each is armed with a large shield, a pair of javelins and a sword. They are veteran mercenaries. They are amongst the fastest of your infantry forces.
    xvi. Five Blackrock maul warriors. Each is armed with a very large shield, four javelins and a large blade. They are veteran mercenaries. Their speed is average. They are probably your strongest mercenary forces.
    xvii. You will immediately kill Nanshe. You do not believe she will be of use in the future and she is a liability as long as she lives.


    For a force of 40 ghols, we will take the fastest troops and move to intercept them. Probably have Lyssa's eagles spy on them to catch them ouside of mountain territory. Can our infantrymen take a ride on the chariots?

    Of course, if more of them come out, we might be in trouble.
     
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  23. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    He is responsible for many of the less, ah, respectable elements of the organization. Everything from spy work to torture to assassination and kidnapping. He is a warrior, he uses a single blade or knives. He is great in urban environments. What else would you like to know?

    Did you want to do it right away or wait until you get back? If you want it done before you leave then I will add a separate question for it.

    Without your escort to drive them they will not be of much use. The other dwarves might be able to pilot them but they will not do as good of a job.

    Two to a chariot so yes they will all fit if you do not bring the Royal Guards.

    As long as they are dwarves then yes. Humans would be a bit awkward and mauls are simply too big.
     
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  24. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Right away.

    There are only five of them. Any way they could be fit on the chariots? Or will remodeling take too much of our time?

    Nevermind, disregard that, I seem to have forgotten what a chariot is. :lol:

    Humans would feel awkward... but it is not impossible, right? So what would it mean in terms of consequences? Less effectiveness in combat after an immediate deployment? We did fit 5 people in our own carriage just fine, after all, despite our size.

    If we take humans, mauls, and chariots, what would be our plan? Arrange a rendez-vous point and go ahead? Or move at the slowest speed?
     
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