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Myth: A New Age CYOA

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Nevill said:
No idea if it falls under the Alliance plan, or under a freeform one.

Probably under a freeform one if you want to impose additional conditions on this working relationship you are trying to establish. The premade choices are simply statements of intent more than anything from my perspective. If one of them wins then Derryth will commit to that path and try her best to achieve its stated goals (An alliance of convenience, a trade, or direct and indirect attacks. They might work and they might not and they will rely on me to come up with proper solutions to any difficulties that might spring up until such a point as Derryth is required to seriously reevaluate her goals or success is achieved.).

If you want something a bit more nuanced I would suggest voting for a freeform plan. I can add the one you put up earlier to the list if you wish.


Nevill said:
Also, the ghols can't be unaware about the pursuit. It's their sole purpose to draw us out.

Is that something they would know? Worth considering perhaps.
 
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Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,012
How do you plan to circumvent the crows spying on our "alliance" by the way?
In the same way we circumvent them with your attack plan.

Seriously, this looks like a trap and the presence of the watcher creature seems very likely.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
It is because of a trap that I want to use the ghols against the enemy. Even if they just leave the gold and go away, the enemy will still be 40 fighters short and less likely to encircle us. What are the crows going to do against that?

I'll probably try to come up with a proper plan, but that won't happen until I get to the keyboard, and that might take a while. It mostly will be a variation on my plan above with a few corrections to accomodate the new information. I guess I'll have A1 as a backup vote.
 

archaen

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
633
Bi. Ride away and take Nanshe back to Stoneheim so we don't walk into an obvious trap. Tip off the crows that we are here and see if we can get the ambush to follow us into open ground and turn on them if they do.

Bi > Aii
 

Sunnmøring

Novice
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
59
A4>A3

Let's sell ghols into slavery for fun and profit! Attacking as a group is probably smarter than attempting negotiation, though; if we separate off parts of the group I have the nasty feeling that they're going to be attacked. We may be a little more sluggish, sure, but banded together we're more secure.
 

Smashing Axe

Arcane
Patron
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Messages
2,835
Divinity: Original Sin
How do you plan to circumvent the crows spying on our "alliance" by the way?
In the same way we circumvent them with your attack plan.

Seriously, this looks like a trap and the presence of the watcher creature seems very likely.
Uh, the crows noticing our attack shouldn't matter too much. We can still fight and defeat the ghols fairly easy due to our numbers advantage if they're prepared or not. The crows noticing an alliance designed to sow rebellion in the Watcher's ranks however? Yeah, that's going to matter. At the very least they'll notice the ghols returning our stuff which will cause the Watcher to be incredibly suspicious. Either way it's probably going to result in their extermination, making the entire effort pointless from the start, assuming the ghols even go for such a deal, which I don't think they will.

As for a trap, it's possible. It's also possible that the magic is completely harmless. We don't know. They are at the least not very strong.
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
27,012
We can still fight and defeat the ghols fairly easy due to our numbers advantage if they're prepared or not. The crows noticing an alliance designed to sow rebellion in the Watcher's ranks however? Yeah, that's going to matter. At the very least they'll notice the ghols returning our stuff which will cause the Watcher to be incredibly suspicious. Either way it's probably going to result in their extermination, making the entire effort pointless from the start, assuming the ghols even go for such a deal, which I don't think they will.
And we get our gold without any trouble and probably avoid a trap, seems win-win to me, unless they renege of the deal as Nanshe joins them, in that case is just the same as attacking them.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
And we get our gold without any trouble and probably avoid a trap, seems win-win to me, unless they renege of the deal as Nanshe joins them, in that case is just the same as attacking them.

That plan will leave hundreds of potential WPs standing around unclaimed even if it goes off perfectly, no thank you.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Uh, the crows noticing our attack shouldn't matter too much. We can still fight and defeat the ghols fairly easy due to our numbers advantage if they're prepared or not.
Yes, we crush the ghols and then we get caught on an uneven terrain with our forces spread out.

Why if there so much focus on defeating the ghols when they are the bait and not the trap? What is there to be proud of about being able to take the bait?

The crows noticing an alliance designed to sow rebellion in the Watcher's ranks however? Yeah, that's going to matter. At the very least they'll notice the ghols returning our stuff which will cause the Watcher to be incredibly suspicious.
It is so by design. Or do you think that one of the necklace bearers vanishing from the Watcher's radar is not suspicious?

That is what we are planning. It is not a surprise attack on the Watcher, it is separating him and the ghols. I don't get how is this an objection.

Either way it's probably going to result in their extermination, making the entire effort pointless from the start, assuming the ghols even go for such a deal, which I don't think they will.
Why would that outcome concern us? It was mentioned in the very update we've read that the Trow have genocided their slaves, but they still perished in the end. Are you showing concern for the ghols now? :lol:

I don't know about other ghols, but Nanshe would go for it. She also claims to have control over her tribe - and it is very doubtful she is lying, since there is absolutely no sense in tricking us when she does not know of the plan. It would be akin to lying about her favorite color - utterly poinless, if you ask me.

What makes me go for it is that the plan is so unorthodox and wonderfully mad, it is bound to catch the Watcher and his mage unprepared. They have fought the Light for too long. No servant of the Light would consider releasing a ghol prisoner and aiding them, no matter their goals. It just happens that we have the ingredients necessary to make it work. At least I think so.

For the moment all I want to do is not to play in their hands and not spring their trap. If it all goes smoothly, we will not have to engage in battle at all.

As for a trap, it's possible. It's also possible that the magic is completely harmless. We don't know. They are at the least not very strong.
Yeah, right. The raid was planned by the Watcher's creature, there is a fuckton of crows around (isn't it customary for a raiding party to be accompanied by hundreds of crows? no? thought so. Even the army we faced before had less), and it's all harmless. Sure.

We've seen the white mage, and I absolutely do not want to meet him again unless he is outnumbered 50 to 1. Our chosen school of magic is largely worthless against him.

And I suspect it is the same creature, or at least someone of the same strength since there is a rumor about him being an immortal. It might be that there are several creatues so indistinguishable from each other that the others could never tell them apart, or he might be an actual immortal. Besides, him making the most upsetting report (Mazzarin's return, what else?) implies that he is still around. Either way, he is an immence threat.

The magic signal only reveals its full power when he is casting, and we are quite far from his location.

That plan will leave hundreds of potential WPs standing around unclaimed even if it goes off perfectly, no thank you.
Jewgoldz. Jewgoldz never change. We are opposing a being of thrice the Spider Goddess power, with armies ten times the size of hers, and all we can worry about is money. :roll:
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Alright, so, the kunning plan (TM).

The goal in not to come in contact with the ghols, but just have them leave the gold, pick it up, load it on the carriage, and then leave on the double.

  • I suppose it requires us to organize Nanshe's escape so that she could take command of her ghols quickly. This can easily be done with Lyssa's support by casting an invisibility spell on the ghol. None of our mercs are mages, so it would look like the sorceress snuck a spell in by herself. We might want to do this on a rough terrain where the chariots can't pursue her, or we might want to send the dwarves ahead.

  • Since the invisibility spell would be the only thing protecting her, our group without the dwarves still number about 20 people, and we are kind of striving for an alliance, there is next to no chance Nanshe will turn on us outright (it would be suicidal), but still it would be nice not to stand near her when she gets loose. On our part, make it a condition that she won't get anything from us if one of ours gets hurt because of her actions, or that of her people.

  • We should confirm that we will tell her how to neutralize the necklaces after we get the gold safely. We should also make sure she understands that if the battle comes to pass, her people will serve merely as a bait to be slaughtered by the force 1.5 times their size, for us to get caught. She does not want the battle to happen, and we don't want it either. Still, she has more to lose than we do if it happens, since her tribe is currently under a command of the high priest of the Watcher. Without her, they are forever the Watcher's slaves.

  • Plant the idea in Nanshe's head that it might be beneficial for her to let the other ghols know about the necklaces, as well as not get too active in the dwarven lands from now on. We have no real way of controlling her once we conclude the deal, so we can't pose it as a condition, but these would be sensible things for her to do.

  • I don't think we will have time to give her the gloves later, and they are kind of heavy to be transported by an eagle, so we just have to have her wear them. Tell your escort that their goal is to suppress magic. It's the truth, after all. That way, the only thing we'll need to send with an eagle is a message explaining how to use them and the construction of the lead collar.

  • The easiest way to confirm that our alliance is working would be for the ghols to change their course to the one that lets us intercept them the fastest. Fangshi, our eagles should be able to see where they are even now, correct? Bird's view, eagle eyes, and all that. Or is it too far even for them? Once Nanshe reunites with her crew - which should happen fairly soon, - we should be able to see what is happening through their eyes, and react accordingly.

    Now, I have no idea where the ghols should be going after that, except that I want them going towards the plains (because that's where the carriage can pick the gold up) and away from the odd magic signal. It might be faster to reach the plains if they head straight east, or they might head south-east and drop the gold for our mauls to carry it south, or even continue heading north-east if the chariots can get there in time and it would be fastest. But Nanshe should give us some kind of a signal in that case.

    She does not need to fear that we intend to trap her - none of our forces can outrun hers on a ragged terrain if the ghols drop the gold, and she should only be worrying about trusting us if she decides to part with the gold in the first place. If she decides to keep her allegiance with the Watcher and take the gold to him... we'll see what our options are then. Worst case scenario, the group of ghols will have one sorceress more, and we'll have one less problematic prisoner in our ranks to worry about. The chance of it working makes the risk worth it to me, though.

  • We should move east in parallel to the ghols. The dwarves should probably go ahead, as they have a long way to go if they want to get around the rocky terrain. We should establish an SOS signal, upon receiving which they will abandon everything they were doing and come back to us. I believe Uttu's flash arrow would suit this role. Fangshi, from how far away can it be seen?

  • If the ghols can reach the plains, they should drop the gold there and move away wherever they want. We'll signal the location of the gold to the dwarves through the eagles and have them pick it up. Have someone check the contents before you load it up. Because, you know. Ghols.

  • If we are lucky, we won't come in contact with the odd magic signal, as we would be constantly moving away from it.

  • Assuming the plan works, we'll have a reduced mobility, as the gold will need to be loaded on the chariots and the carriage. That means our grenadiers won't fit there anymore. The good news is, we might not care about it, as even in the worst case scenario we can ride ahead, leaving them behind but also drawing the attention away from them.

Is there anything I missed? I'll call it Vera Bii.

Alternatively, it might be better to limit ourselves to the statement of intent only and let Fangshi take care of the details, since the plan is static and factors might come up that turn it upside down. So my vote is Bii>Ai.
 
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asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
I like Nevill's plan but i see a flaw:
Plant the idea in Nanshe's head that it might be beneficial for her to let the other ghols know about the necklaces, as well as not get too active in the dwarven lands from now on. We have no real way of controlling her once we conclude the deal, so we can't pose it as a condition, but these would be sensible things for her to do.
We should not do this because Nanshe is pretty decent with Mental Spells and will figure it out easily or even resist it outright and be hostile.

I am voting Bii > Ai as well but i hope nevill considers the above point.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
No-no-no. I did not mean it as a mind trick at all. What I meant was a summation of my previous statements.
- She will make sure that the word about this gets out among the ghols. That part is a bit iffy, but I figure this is in her interests, too. If one defies an archmage like that, a retribution is to be expected. So it pays off to weaken and distract the archmage so that he could not send as many of her kind after her as he otherwise would, and to provide him with a lot of different targets. That is if the plight of freedom for every ghol that wants it does not touch her tender heart. :lol:
- She will either leave the dwarven lands or significantly reduce her presence here, as far as the dwarves are concerned. Letting her 'escape' is a stain on our reputation, the one that we would be expected to fix given our 'hero' status. On her part, she heard what we did with one of the Watcher's armies. She also fought us personally, and lost. She does not want us on her tail, and we do not want to divert resources from fighting the Watcher. Ideally, we won't meet ever again. Hopefully, the other clans that want to get free from the Watcher will follow this line of thought, too, but that is neither a priority nor a concern for us.
We should be honest with her, as far as that is possible, as our plan relies largely on the fact that she will know we can fulfil our promises, be it freedom or death.

These two things benefit us, but there is merit in them for her, too. I want her to consider that.

I guess I should be more careful with words when playing a mentalist. :)
 
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Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Nevill said:
This can easily be done with Lyssa's support by casting an invisibility spell on the ghol.

Lyssa does not know Invisibility, none of the ladies do. She could project a fake image or scene (for example you 'killing' Nanshe) to give your prisoner a way out but she can not cast that particular spell.

Nevill said:
Fangshi, our eagles should be able to see where they are even now, correct? Bird's view, eagle eyes, and all that. Or is it too far even for them?

It is not very far for the eagles but the couple hundred crows between them and your target may pose a problem. It is likely that the crows will attack the eagles if given a chance.

Nevill said:
Now, I have no idea where the ghols should be going after that, except that I want them going towards the plains (because that's where the carriage can pick the gold up) and away from the odd magic signal. It might be faster to reach the plains if they head straight east, or they might head south-east and drop the gold for our mauls to carry it south, or even continue heading north-east if the chariots can get there in time and it would be fastest. But Nanshe should give us some kind of a signal in that case.

This can work but there may be a catch.

She has the ability to send up a signal that you should be able to see however she will likely be reluctant to tell you in advance where she will drop the chests. Particularly if she decides to be helpful and leave them on open ground for you to easily pick up. She likely will be afraid that you will ambush them with your chariots and ride them down on the open plains so she will want most of her people safely away before she sends up the signal.

Nevill said:
I believe Uttu's flash arrow would suit this role. Fangshi, from how far away can it be seen?

About sixty kilometres or so. As previously mentioned it works a lot like a marine flare.

Current Tally:

Kipeci: Aiii>Aiv
Smashing Axe: Aiv>Aiii
Jester: Ai
Kz3r0: Bii>Ai
Nevill: Bii>Ai
archaen: Bii>Bi
Sunnmøring: Aiv>Aiii
Grimgravy: Ai
Baltika9: Ai
asxetos: Bii>Ai

A)
i. 3 votes
ii.
iii. 1 vote
iv. 2 votes

B)
i.
ii. 4 votes

Post Flop:

A)
i. 3 votes
ii.
iii.
iv. 3 votes

B)
i.
ii. 4 votes
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Lyssa does not know Invisibility, none of the ladies do. She could project a fake image or scene (for example you 'killing' Nanshe) to give your prisoner a way out but she can not cast that particular spell.
I can't believe I keep confusing things. I thought for sure someone in our party could cast it, but it turned out it was Miosguinn. Damn.

Faking Nanshe's death would not be ideal. It will raise questions if she turns out to be alive later - she is rather famous. Something to distract the guards (and justify our inaction) to give her time to cast that Iron Skin and run would be better. Our archers would not be able to shoot her, and none of our warriors can keep up with her in that case.

It is not very far for the eagles but the couple hundred crows between them and your target may pose a problem. It is likely that the crows will attack the eagles if given a chance.
But we haven't reached the crows yet. If the eagles can see the ghols from where we are standing (if they fly high enough), what's the problem?

She has the ability to send up a signal that you should be able to see however she will likely be reluctant to tell you in advance where she will drop the chests. Particularly if she decides to be helpful and leave them on open ground for you to easily pick up. She likely will be afraid that you will ambush them with your chariots and ride them down on the open plains so she will want most of her people safely away before she sends up the signal.
That's why I said she needs not fear a trap. She can leave the gold on the border between the rugged terrain and the plains, right where the plains start. We can't ambush her forces since our dwarves can not teleport out of thin air and there is nowhere for them to hide on the plains - at the first sign of trouble the ghols can always run away deeper in the rocky terrain where the chariots can't reach them.

I loosesy define the 'plains' as 'a terrain passable for a chariot moving at a decent speed'.

^^~~^^~~^^\..................
~~^^~~^^~~/.................
^^Mountains^^X....Plains....
~~^^~~^^~~|.................
^^~~^^~~^^/..................

Is there a reason why this can't work for her? The dwarves certainly can't give chase on foot, seeing how they are the slowest of our troops.

I assumed that with eagles, we won't even need a signal from her for when to pick up the gold - we'll be able to see it regardless.

About sixty kilometres or so. As previously mentioned it works a lot like a marine flare.
And what is the distance between the location we are currently standing at and the place where the plains begin in the north? How much time it would take the dwarve to go around the mountains from their current position?
 
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Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Nevill said:
But we haven't reached the crows yet. If the eagles can see the ghols from where we are standing (if they fly high enough), what's the problem?

Nevill said:
I assumed that with eagles, we won't even need a signal from her for when to pick up the gold - we'll be able to see it regardless.

They can't see the ghôls from where they are. Your scouts have been tracking them then falling back and sending you messages that way. The terrain is quite rough and ribbed through with gullies which the ghôls are traveling through. To get close enough to see them from the air would require getting past the screen of crows.

Nevill said:
Is there a reason why this can't work for her? The dwarves certainly can't give chase on foot, seeing how they are the slowest of our troops.

In that case it can be done without too much trouble. She will probably deposit the chests somewhere on the north east corner of that diagram I added to the update since it would give her somewhere to run too if the dwarves catch her in the act. She will still want a good head start though (which should not be a problem). If she agrees to this then you will both want to keep your soldiers away from each other, if the ghôls or dwarves spot one another there could be a fight if one of the groups comes within range of the other.

Nevill said:
And what is the distance between the location we are currently standing at and the place where the plains begin in the north?

Twelve kilometres or so. The ghôls have maybe half that to go till they hit the north plains but they are weighed down and the terrain is rough. If you went directly at them and they did not stop, you would likely catch them within the hour. It will naturally take them longer to reach the eastern edge of the gullies and your chariots could get there before them if they left immediately.

Nevill said:
How much time it would take the dwarves to go around the mountains from their current position?

About an hour if they go all out and bring a good guide. They can get around and onto the plains quickly enough to make Aiii and Aiv work essentially. It would take them maybe two thirds of an hour to three quarters of an hour to get to the likely drop off point if Nanshe agrees to your plan. She will probably try and drop it somewhere in the north east corner of the map I gave you before slipping away.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
They can't see the ghôls from where they are. Your scouts have been tracking them then falling back and sending you messages that way. The terrain is quite rough and ribbed through with gullies which the ghôls are traveling through. To get close enough to see them from the air would require getting past the screen of crows.
Fair enough. But they should be able to see them once the ghols reach the eastern edge.

It will naturally take them longer to reach the eastern edge of the gullies and your chariots could get there before them if they left immediately.
How much longer? At what speed are they moving? Slower than our dwarves on foot, I assume?

Is the odd magic signal moving? In which direction and at what speed?

It would take them maybe two thirds of an hour to three quarters of an hour to get to the likely drop off point if Nanshe agrees to your plan. She will probably try and drop it somewhere in the north east corner of the map I gave you before slipping away.
Can she tell us what is up there? Why is her team moving north-east?

Why can't she move south-east? It would let us be done with it faster, and the ghols can still retreat west.

The ghols not changing directions might still be beneficial to us, as it does not give away our plan. Still, I am concerned about it.
 

archaen

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
633
I'll flop Bii > Bi with the clarifications.
 

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