Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Myth: A New Age CYOA

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
We don't even know what his methods are. For all we know, his method is "talk you into blabbing all your secrets in public." Also, we don't even know if he likes Mazzarin (it may be that he was pressured into this) and if he pokes into our secrets he would find out that we deal with demon lords and Mazzarin doesn't really like us either.

I don't plan to fight here either. That's why I just want a successful negotiation.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Does not matter if he likes Maz, he knows he is weaker than him.

All he needs to know that if he screws us over, we can screw him over even harder (due to the favor), and if he gets us killed, he does not get to walk away from it either (due to the will).
 

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
1. You choose to:

F) Agree to the scan under certain conditions

2. Provided you decide to work with Finnbheara's people you will need to come to some sort of agreement. This is a freeform option, feel free to put forth whatever sort of offer you want and I will tell you what is and is not workable.
A) Offer Terms of Alliance


3. You think you can develop a spell that will greatly increase your resistance to the King's aura. You will attempt to combine elements of the theory behind calm casting with the feeling of channeling the Warrior's Mask. You hope to do this in one attempt but it might require a few attempts to get everything working properly. If you inform the King that you need a few minutes to collect yourself and focus he should oblige. You choose to:

B) Practice now - use your own magical reserves to fuel the development and maintainance of the spell
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Fangshi, can you tell us about the potential dangers of scanning the minds of otheres?

One of the beasts looks up, it howls, black water, pitch black water, fluid darker than you could ever imagine, pours forth and his fellows turn to join him. They begin to claw upward, tearing themselves free of the lake bed, racing toward you. As the first twisted claw breaks the surface and a wave of rage and hatred washes over you, the two of you flee, not just from this lake but from the Scout's mind altogether.

Your heart in your throat, you hands shaking, you nod to one another.
I remember this description from "Lost and Found" chapter:
This landscape will also be populated by beings of various shapes, sizes, etc. These represent concepts and emotions and the ways in which they interact provide the raw information that the mentalist has to turn into 'facts'. It is an inexact process as you can not really interrogate or interact with these beings unless you go all the was and conduct a proper infiltration ritual. A few of these creatures can still spot you however, the powerful ones, the vengeful ones, the ones you don't really want to be captured by, they will all try to attack you and push you from the target's mind.
But what exactly is the danger of 'being captured'? We aren't really in someone else's mind like we would be if we cast Infiltration instead, are we? So escape is always an option... right? It's not like the Watcher is actually present inside the scout's mind, it is only the scout's perception of the archmage that we are seeing.

Or is there something I do not understand about mind-diving?

I have also assumed that deconstructing and dissecting one's mind - the sort of thing we did to the same scout on our second attempt - is relatively risk-free, in that the worst case scenario would be that it just won't work. But now I am starting to doubt that as well.
 

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
I think about that Berty know our dear Finn and it make me a little... concerned. I know he didn't work with us so long as other from Circle, but there is difference between don't telling us about his personal things and don't telling us about fucking fairie king that may be danger for us. I'm also preety sure that he know from start that he is Copper boss. I don't like that thought, but I'm preety sure that he know even more that he don't say yet.

If nobody have objections, I wanted to ask Fangshi about little talk with Berty about things like they when we will be alone or around people that we trust. We really must do something about this, I can tolerate having secrets, but only if they don't fuck us up in the way that we don't even know about. Even without making one spell around us. Berty is cool man, but I don't think he even think how this could end for us.

(Yay. I start to finally making some ideas! Finally Karwelas mind works, baby! :lol: )
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I'm preety sure that he know even more that he don't say yet.
I am not sure that Berty is even human.

The King nods, "Dear ladies, what your 'Berty' says is true," the King's eyes dart between you and your tactician, he smiles broadly. He must find something awfully amusing.
Berty is clearly not his real name, and I think the King finds amusing the very fact that he is 'working' for us, a pair of mortal amateur mages who are barely thirty.

But that does not concern me in the slightest. He likes us, he is helpful, and he is delightfully mad enough to go along with our plans. That is more than could be said about most of the cast.

It is only recently that he changed his status from a neutral to a somewhat-of-a-friend. If he wants to have his secrets, I'd let him. We allowed Lyssa to have some personal space, why not him?

That said, asking him to be more - ah, forthcoming? - with the information relevant to our situation wouldn't hurt. I'd just not force the issue if he is unwilling to talk.

Also, Fangshi, didn't Morpheus promise to take reasonable precautions against TWM leaving the Dreaming? I remember taking measures to prevent his escape from the Dreaming as one of our conditions... or does my memory play tricks on me? I am trying to figure out whether having him escape due to a drunk brawl would constitute a breach of our contract, which Morpheus clearly can not afford.
 
Last edited:

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
It is only recently that he changed his status from a neutral to a somewhat-of-a-friend. If he wants to have his secrets, I'd let him. We allowed Lyssa to have some personal space, why not him?

That said, asking him to be more - ah, forthcoming? - with the information relevant to our situation wouldn't hurt. I'd just not force the issue if he is unwilling to talk.

Yes, of course. We don't want to force him to anything. Just want to remind him that we work togther and I would be nice to sometimes get little informations if it don't have any reasons to keep them to himself. Everyone have their secrets and he can feel save with his. It is more like nice suggestion.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Well, the vibe I got from Berty is that he will not tell you anything if you don't ask, or unless he likes you and believes that not talking would put you in some kind of danger, which he thought wasn't the case here.

He is a street kid, or at least he claims that's how he grew up, and those aren't really big on telling everyone their life stories. It took about a month and a half of working under constant fear of death to move from an employer/employee relationship.

We work together, yes, but we don't mention a lot of facts to him, too. He does not know about Nine or Lyssa, or at least if he does, we weren't the ones who told him. I don't think he knows about Melete, or about our connection to Gareth, or about most of our operations, really. Some things are just plain dangerous for us and the people involved to talk about, even though all of them could potentially impact his livelihood.

Do we have reasons not to talk about these things unless we really, really need to? Yes, and pretty good ones, at that. Why can't we assume the same about others, then?

I think it would be hypocritical to demand him to adhere to the standarts we ourselves can not live up to.
 
Last edited:

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
Well, you have a point there.

Maybe it is bad idea, at least for now. I don't have all informations becouse I wasn't there with you, from start of our adventure and I may sometimes have ideas that aren't the best that we can get. I know everybody have secrets, especially us, but I just don't feel good with that Berty didn't even warn us after we meet with Copper. Instead, he act at last moment he can. Maybe he have reasons to do that, but I hope he will tell us if he had them. Not even tell us about them just say 'I have reasons to act like that, girls'. And this will be enough.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
07-FlyingRat-full.jpg
Since it will probably be a while until the next update, I would like to put another option to a vote, supposed that all goes relatively well.

I want to form an animal squad from all the beasts at our disposal. We have the bracelets to speak to the elephants, so we should get to it eventually and sort out the situation with the handlers. I imagine Cropper, being anti-slavery and showing signs of empathy to other animals, would not stand for their treatment, either.

But I want to go further than that. I want to introduce our animals to each other and make them able to communicate between themselves through the bracelets of fur and/or feathers. I want to commission a ring from dormouse hair from Lyssa to be able to talk to Martin directly. I want our eagles to be able to carry our mice in the air, and our mice to be able to direct the eagles. I want to provide them means for cooperation.

And I want to start our own rat Luftwaffe. I want all mice - not only those who have the gliding cloaks assigned to them - to start their airdrop training. Since they don't have enough cloaks, they should train in shifts - I want everyone to have at least some experience with this, and also to screen their potential to find out the most suitable for the task. They should learn how to handle their gliders and how to make themselves land on a certain spot designated from above, ideally they should learn how to combine the freefall and a gliding mechanics to land on a moving target.

The eagles will provide a safety net and catch them should something go awry. We should also feed the birds better so that there would be no temptation to eat the paratroopers. I would also assume that being able to talk to each other would make it easier not to see the mice as just food.

The applications of airborn mice are many, and if everything goes as planned I think I have an idea how to use them against the Watcher's armies.

So,

4. Provided you survive this, you think you could organise an animal division for your forces with Lyssa as a commanding officer. You could ask her to fashion a few items to make the animals be able to talk to one another and to us directly. You also think that having your eagles and mice with gliding cloaks work together may provide you some interesting tactical opportunities.
A) You commission the items, organise the division, and commence the training of your mice paratrooper squad.
B) You do not bother with it. Lyssa might have a better use for her time.


4A.

We will begin with eagles and mice (and maybe a goose if Brantalis is willing to join), and will add elephants and magical hounds to the team if our negotiations with respective parties will go well enough.

Fangshi, can our apprentice mice notice magical signals from above to scout for enemy mages and to mark the most dangerous targets for our eagles?

Also, how long would it take to teach them a Light Breeze and Retrieve Item spells?
 
Last edited:

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
But what exactly is the danger of 'being captured'? We aren't really in someone else's mind like we would be if we cast Infiltration instead, are we? So escape is always an option... right? It's not like the Watcher is actually present inside the scout's mind, it is only the scout's perception of the archmage that we are seeing.

Or is there something I do not understand about mind-diving?

I have also assumed that deconstructing and dissecting one's mind - the sort of thing we did to the same scout on our second attempt - is relatively risk-free, in that the worst case scenario would be that it just won't work. But now I am starting to doubt that as well.

Well you remember how Mayer wife end up after dreaming? There was no real mind and body damage from my point of view, rather her Ego was damaged. Or even better our fight with those death casters near Blackrock. They nearly captured Thais while mind-diving effectively preventing her from escaping. We probably don't risk instant death in diving more like our Ego (sense of self). So probable risks are mind reset, phantom damage (something like pain after losing limb), mind collapse, various sort of trauma, mind fusion, insanity, losing of control of organs if someone convince it that they were destroyed (or and strokes), etc. As for deconstruction, dunno some kind of feedback?

As for Berthy i would guess he is some kind of nonhuman creature taking into consideration his superior resistance to charming spells. Derryth failed with one of best possible wisdom scores, so i dont see this happening without some kind of origin perk. There could be some kind of magic item, but i doubt it it (would probably be to powerful to miss). Betting on some kind of fay or halffay creature for now, might explain his amusing oddness.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Mayer's wife ended up mad because there was no escape for her. The Drowning Dead are probably a good example, but I attributed the trap to their special condition and to them being mages, neither of which applied to the scout. That is why I was surprised to see that it might be dangerous to probe someone low-kry like that.

You are probably onto something with Berty. So far only the only ones to call us Derry and Taide was him and the Irish the fairies. Given how promiscuous they are and how crazy he is, my money is either on him being a half-fey, or fey-touched.

Well, or he could have led a wild life as an adventurer. It's Berty we are talking about. If Mayer can be acquaintanced with a Prince of the Dreaming, why can't Berty know some of the fairy kings?
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Nevill said:
Fangshi, can you tell us about the potential dangers of scanning the minds of others?

SAN damage mostly.

When you are scanning the minds of others you can not take actual damage, in that way it can be said to be 'safe'. They can not kill you even if they kill your projection, so it is less dangerous compared to when you use infiltration (where your mind can be completely destroyed and you can 'die').

As I mentioned earlier if you encounter a sufficiently powerful emotion/memory/idea it can detect you and it will usually attack you. These concepts will attack you for a variety of reasons, in a normal mind they might be positive emotions or the targets desire for privacy, that sort of thing, and they attack you simply because you do not belong. Their primary aim is to drive you off and not necessarily to hurt you, though they probably would not hesitate to do so if you prove stubborn about leaving. In distorted minds though they may attack out of jealousy, rage, or pain, again because you do not belong but also because you do not suffer the way they do. They can concentrate their pain/self-loathing/rage/etc into their attacks on you (since that is all that they are) and if they successfully connect (or worse connect multiple times) then you are going to experience the hosts mind the way they see it. You will be consumed with sorrow/rage/jealousy/self-loathing and that can do a fair bit of damage to your own mental stability.

There is a bit of a trade off though, if you connect with such beings you can also try to understand them which may give insights into the nature of the mind you are dealing with, of course there will always be rolls involved to see how much SAN damage you take from such a risky move.

RE: 'Capturing' - When you project your mind out you usually have control over where it goes and when it returns but there are times when you lose complete control. A powerful enough mind (or minds) can actually slow or stop your ability to flee. This does not generally apply to your average person on the street, since they have no proper mental training you will be able to dictate most of the terms of your interaction, most of the time, but for other mages, particularly powerful ones, they may well be able to trap your projection or slow it sufficiently that you can take an awful lot of SAN damage before you get free. If the being is powerful enough they may even be able to sever the connection between your projection and your body, either through a spell/ritual or some innate ability. Such an act won't kill either your body or mind but the longer your mind is without a physical anchor the harder it will be to think/feel/be a 'person'. You will start to behave as a spirit yourself and may lose something of yourself along with your SAN.

Jester pretty much nailed it with this:

Jester said:
Well you remember how Mayer wife end up after dreaming? There was no real mind and body damage from my point of view, rather her Ego was damaged. Or even better our fight with those death casters near Blackrock. They nearly captured Thais while mind-diving effectively preventing her from escaping. We probably don't risk instant death in diving more like our Ego (sense of self). So probable risks are mind reset, phantom damage (something like pain after losing limb), mind collapse, various sort of trauma, mind fusion, insanity, losing of control of organs if someone convince it that they were destroyed (or and strokes), etc. As for deconstruction, dunno some kind of feedback?

The Drowned Dead are a good example of active minds preventing Taide's escape, thankfully you where there to help her.

Helena is also a good example of what can happen to a mind/mental projection that manages to 'get lost', from what you understand though Mayer and his wife were dealing with something that is/was quite powerful and did not care for their actions.

You are unlikely to have to worry about either situation when dealing with your average mind, unless something has been 'placed' in their mind by a foreign power... A trap or the like... of course that might just be Derry being paranoid.

Karwelas said:
If nobody have objections, I wanted to ask Fangshi about little talk with Berty about things like they when we will be alone or around people that we trust. We really must do something about this, I can tolerate having secrets, but only if they don't fuck us up in the way that we don't even know about. Even without making one spell around us. Berty is cool man, but I don't think he even think how this could end for us.

Sure, you can do that. If there are no objections then you can have a polite talk with him after the King clears off. If there is disagreement on how exactly to talk to him though (friendly conversation v. interrogation) then I will have to put it to a vote.

Nevill said:
Also, Fangshi, didn't Morpheus promise to take reasonable precautions against TWM leaving the Dreaming? I remember taking measures to prevent his escape from the Dreaming as one of our conditions... or does my memory play tricks on me? I am trying to figure out whether having him escape due to a drunk brawl would constitute a breach of our contract, which Morpheus clearly can not afford.

Well he did take a lot of precautions. He put TWM in one of his secure vaults and everything, the sort of place reserved for his most, ah, 'honoured' 'guests'. Thing is though that his brothers have just as much control over the Dreaming as he does, that is why he snuck you in for your first lesson while they were both distracted since he can not actually fight them both off by himself. To make matters worse, since Phantasos is attuned to the rocks, plants and dirt of the dreaming he can pretty much manipulate the 'inanimate' elements of the realm at will so it is not like Morpheus could really stop them from doing what they wanted once the fight broke out.

You would need to make the case that Morpheus could and should have set up safeguards to prevent his brothers from taking TWM and that doing so would constitute 'reasonable' rather than 'extreme' precautions if you wanted to find him in breach of his contract. Additionally, as a Prince of the Dreaming, the only people fit to judge the case fairly would be his brothers, so if you want him to 'pay' you for violating the contract you would either have to count on him to do it voluntarily or you would have to take the matter before his siblings.

Nevill said:
4. Provided you survive this, you think you could organize an animal division for your forces with Lyssa as a commanding officer. You could ask her to fashion a few items to make the animals be able to talk to one another and to us directly. You also think that having your eagles and mice with gliding cloaks work together may provide you some interesting tactical opportunities.
A) You commission the items, organize the division, and commence the training of your mice paratrooper squad.
B) You do not bother with it. Lyssa might have a better use for her time.

Added

Nevill said:
Fangshi, can our apprentice mice notice magical signals from above to scout for enemy mages and to mark the most dangerous targets for our eagles?

Yes, they are mages so they can detect enemies casting.

Nevill said:
Also, how long would it take to teach them a Light Breeze and Retrieve Item spells?

A few days each, so maybe a week in total. Keep in mind though that they would need to work in teams to cast spells of any significant size. If only one were casting then their light breeze would be small and the objects they can retrieve would also have to be about mouse sized (much in the same way that DT&L can not retrieve a mountain or something).
 
Last edited:

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
If only one were casting then their light breeze would be small and the objects they can retrieve would also have to be about mouse sized (much in the same way that DT&L can not retrieve a mountain or something).
Manipulating mice paratroopers and where they land is what I had in mind for light breeze (Lyssa used Strong Wind to direct the balloon, but that was a fully loaded balloon with twelve people inside, so the difference in required spell power seems proportional to the difference in mass).

And rings and amulets is what I had in mind for Retrieve Item. Specifically, our spell rings, though I would not exclude a possibility of stealing necklaces right from the enemy mages' necks in the middle of combat.

How likely would be the enemy mages to guess who is casting? They would pick up a light signal, but would they even think to attribute it to a mouse? Obviously, if the mouse is the only thing in sight, they would be able to guess through the process of elimination, but otherwise? How exact is the location that the magic aura gives away?

Do our novice mice have magical training suitable for mage detection, or is it limited to just Mirra and Poppy? Who are the novice mice, anyway? Why are they with us?
 

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
Hmmm so if we would make our mouse write letters we could include more information inside, while decreasing mana cost for retrieving it? Wind would probably be used mostly usefull for acceleration and steering.

Interesting mouse facts.
Mice communicate mainly by vocalizing and by emitting scents (pheromones). Pheromones are produced and excreted by the preputial glands, but are also found in tears and urine.

Of all the senses, the sense of smell is the most developed. Pheromones contribute to communication, they function as an alarm signal for predators and they play a role in sexual maturation. In mice, pheromones are perceived by an olfactory sense organ called Jacobson's organ, which is located in the base of the nasal cavity.

Mice are able to hear sounds outside the frequency range audible to humans (ultrasound). For communication, mice produce sounds that humans can hear, as well as inaudible ultrasound.

Mice use their whiskers for perceiving objects and the movement of air. Bending of whiskers leads to stimulation of the nerves attached to the hair follicles and these nerve impulses are transmitted to the cerebral cortex.

Mice are nocturnal animals; they have next to no color perception and they are sensitive to high intensity light. This is especially true for albino animals, which suffer retinal degradation if exposed to light with an intensity exceeding 60 Lux.
If we use mouse language ultrasound frequency we would code it and made less likely to be traced. And mby some kind of wind pressure signalisation with that movement of air perceiving.
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Nevill said:
Manipulating mice paratroopers and where they land is what I had in mind for light breeze (Lyssa used Strong Wind to direct the balloon, but that was a fully loaded balloon with twelve people inside, so the difference in required spell power seems proportional to the difference in mass).

Yes, that should be fine. Generally speaking the spells your mage mice throw will have the same effect on other mice as your spells do on other humans. As long as you keep things vaguely in the same size bracket you are good.

Nevill said:
And rings and amulets is what I had in mind for Retrieve Item. Specifically, our spell rings, though I would not exclude a possibility of stealing necklaces right from the enemy mages' necks in the middle of combat.

That should be fine as well.

Nevill said:
How likely would be the enemy mages to guess who is casting? They would pick up a light signal, but would they even think to attribute it to a mouse? Obviously, if the mouse is the only thing in sight, they would be able to guess through the process of elimination, but otherwise? How exact is the location that the magic aura gives away?

Well that would all depend on the situation and those involved. How likely is it that your average mage would instantly figure it out? Not very likely, but the smarter, wiser and more experienced they are the harder it will be to trick them.

Novice magic users should be able to pin down the general direction and intensity of a magical aura while skilled mages can narrow it down to a precise individual. Archmages might even be able to tell the difference between a canned spell (ring/necklace) and a spell being actively cast by the mouse in question as they would likely have a different 'feel' to them.

Nevill said:
Do our novice mice have magical training suitable for mage detection, or is it limited to just Mirra and Poppy?

The novice mice can detect magical auras, yes. They can not really cast spells yet (aside from the odd spark) but Lyssa has been working with them in her free time to remedy that.

Nevill said:
Who are the novice mice, anyway? Why are they with us?

They are members of the 'Tower Clan' of spellcasting mice that Mirra and Poppy come from. Mirra and Poppy are the only members of the clan that can cast full spells but since you voted to let Lyssa continue with the experiments she has been working with some of the most promising members of the clan to teach them how to fully cast. The novice mice are her students essentially.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Hmmm so if we would make our mouse write letters we could include more information inside, while decreasing mana cost for retrieving it?
I am not sure what you mean. Why would we need them to write letters, and why would we need to retrieve them?
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yes, that should be fine. Generally speaking the spells your mage mice throw will have the same effect on other mice as your spells do on other humans. As long as you keep things vaguely in the same size bracket you are good.
What kind of damage can a firebolt spell do to a human on contact, given that it pulverized a piece of pork?

How many mice would it take to cast a firebolt at a human efficiency level?

How can we improve their efficiency? The limiting factor seems to be the amount of power a single mouse can pour into the spell. So what means do we have for providing them with more power? Energon cubes are an obvious answer, but they are a bit heavy for a mouse. We will need someone else to carry them (an eagle, or a goose, or a mobile toy-sized artillery platform), probably. What are our other options? Energon dust backpacks?

Also, an unrelated question. How do communication spells that allow us to talk to the animals work? Do they let the bearer of an item to speak like an animal does (so, for example, Lyssa 'squeaks' when talking to the mice), or does it 'translate' our speech to something the critters understand?

Say, we want to talk to the elephants using our bracelets. Will the handlers be able to understand us?

Is animal-to-animal talk possible with such items?
 
Last edited:

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Nevill said:
What kind of damage can a firebolt spell do to a human on contact, given that it pulverized a piece of pork?

Depends where you hit the person. If it connected with bare flesh it could cause quite a severe burn and maybe even consume some of the flesh at the point of contact. If you hit someone in the throat or in the mouth or in the eye then you could do a lot of damage, maybe even kill them.

Nevill said:
How many mice would it take to cast a firebolt at human efficiency level?

Depends on the skill level of the mice and how much power they can each draw. Firebolt is a fairly simple spell that Derryth was able to learn when she first started down the path of serious magical study so most fully trained mice should be able to manage it. To hit the level of your average human mage would take maybe a dozen fully trained, novice mice.

If the mice managed to reach archmage status somehow (for example you kept them young and alive with your eternal bloom ritual) then they would be able to easily call down a human sized firebolt by themselves.

Nevill said:
How can we improve their efficiency? The limiting factor seems to be power a single mouse can pour into the spell. So what means do we have for providing them with power? Energon cubes are an obvious answer, but they are a bit heavy for a mouse. We will need someone else to carry them (an eagle, or a goose, or a mobile toy-sized artillery platform), probably. What are our other options? Energon dust backpacks?

The exact same principles apply to the mice as to the humans (and most other mortal species for that matter). Training increases the amount of power you can draw so more training equals more powerful spells. Failing that you need to provide them with an external energy source, energon dust (they need regular treatments to maintain their ability to cast for the time being) would work, if you want to give them a whole energon cube that would also work as well and it would let them channel well above their natural power threshold, it would make them into the equivalent of mouse artillery (albeit for only a single shot). Mandrake roots would of course work if they were trying to heal someone and 'chaining' a group of mages would also work much like it does when the ladies weave spells together.

Nevill said:
Also, an unrelated question. How do communication spells that allow us to talk to the animals work? Do they let the bearer of an item to speak like an animal does (so, for example, Lyssa 'squeaks' when talking to the mice), or does it 'translate' our speech to something the critters understand?

The spells convert the sounds the caster/user makes into the appropriate sounds to effectively communicate with the target. This is done in real time, it also explains how Lyssa can make sounds that she lacks the organs to naturally make. The spell also converts language back into something that Lyssa can understand though it does that within her mind rather than through altering the sounds themselves. Her bracelets and necklaces function the exact same way.

Now there is more to it than that, a lot of communication is non-verbal and the spells do not help all that much with such signals though they do sometimes help to convey specific emotions. As a result, Lyssa will is better at communicating with most mammals and birds than you will be, even with items to help you.

As a slightly amusing aside, all of this means that the exact spells you use can have a large effect on how you sound to the animal you are talking to. For example, if you are using a spell to talk to mice and that spell is relying on translation passages that have not been updated in ten years then you will sound very old fashioned (almost archaic) to the mice. It would be the equivalent of speaking nineteenth century English to a modern speaker. You would be understood for the most part but it would get you the odd glance and a bit of laughter. If you were using a spell that had not been updated in fifty human years then it would be like talking to a modern English speaker in Middle English or maybe even Old English and you would be less likely to be understood.

Thankfully, animal languages are (for the most part) quite a bit simpler than those spoken by the more advanced races of the world so you can usually get by without too much difficulty as long as you know the general basics of the language in question. So you can talk to a group of mice in Myrgard, for example, and another in Muirthemne with the same spells nd you should be able to communicate effectively.

Some animal languages are a lot slower to change as some species are less numerous and longer lived. The language of the elephants, for example, does not change as quickly as that of the mice but (with the exception of the Blackrock mice) it is a more complex language.

The Blackrock mice are something of an exception and that is largely down to the meddling of mages. They have a more advanced society than you would encounter elsewhere (one actually worthy of the term civilization) and as a result they have a more advanced and specialized language. Blackrock rodents can communicate with regular rodents but it would be much like modern man communicating with the great apes, entirely possible, but sometimes a bit awkward. The spellcasting mice are even more developed and can understand a fair bit of actual dwarven, you could probably speak to them in dwarven and they would understand even if they do not have the means to answer in dwarven. Lys is working on reverse engineering a spell for Mirra and Poppy that will let them talk to you in Bruig, she has taken it on as a bit of a hobby but she is so busy that she has made little progress.

Nevill said:
Say, we want to talk to the elephants using our bracelets. Will the handlers be able to understand us?

They will not.

Nevill said:
Is animal-to-animal talk possible with such items?

Yes, provided the animal is intelligent enough to understand what is going on. The Blackrock rodents should be able to manage with proper instruction and the spellcasting mice could probably even learn the neccesary spells to do it themselves if given time. Other animals such as dogs, cats, horses and the like would also be able to manage as far as you know. In these cases they could even be expected to do quite well, particularly when it comes to communicating with humans due to the bond these species have with man. Most mammals and birds should be smart enough to eventually work out how to communicate though their vocabulary would probably be limited.

It is hard to say if reptiles, amphibians and particularly insects could master such communication. In theory it may be possible but it would also likely be more difficult.

Plants would presumably require a completely different approach (and discipline of magic) if they are even capable of communication at all.

If two different animals both wore devices then they would be able to communicate freely within the limitations stated above. There would be room for misinterpretation of course but that occurs between members of the same species speaking the same language as well.
 

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
So, Fangshi.
If anyone don't have objection I really would want have that little talk with Berty, but don't push him too much on it. Be polite, even very polite. If he don't talk about something, it is fine. Everyone have secrets. But there are still some points that I really want to hear about:
- Ask him if he know from beginning about that who is Copper master and about their faerie nature. If he know, ask him if he had reasons to not tell us that.
- Ask him if he have any knowledge Finn and his powers/forces/capabilities - both magic/army and his... well... authority. (Don't push it into talk about his relationship with Finn. Just informations.)
- And probably last thing - and be very gentle here - Ask him if in future we will ever fall into troubles he know about and these problems can overwhelm us... can he warn us before he will be forced to act in the possibly last chance? I have that bad feeling... you know... if we would fall into faerie charm we would probably be fucked. For very long time. And if Berty wouldn't act we would be probably under influence of Finn. We (both players and our character) really like that guy and we don't want to harm or disturb him in any way and we understand that he could ever be forced to act like this under circumstances that we may even don't know about but there is still a little difference between hiding something that may be danger to everyone around (I know, we hide many facts from him, but I'm also preety sure that we would tell him under some circumstances.) and his own secret. When Finn people appear and we got info about that he will come here, it wasn't only his private thing. It involve us from that moment. And this is thing that we should remind him.

(Sorry for any mistakes.) Fell free to change, discuss or try to prevent us from this action if you think it is bad idea.

And by the way 4A.
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Karwelas said:
So, Fangshi.
If anyone don't have objection I really would want have that little talk with Berty, but don't push him too much on it. Be polite, even very polite. If he don't talk about something, it is fine. Everyone have secrets. But there are still some points that I really want to hear about:

Sure, you can talk to him now or once you are in private again. If you want to ask him anything now you can, just remember the King will be listening as will all your people and his. Otherwise, the earliest you could have a nice, private, polite chance to talk to him would be after the next update, provided the King clears off by then.

It will only require a vote if someone objects.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom