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Myth: A New Age CYOA

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by Fangshi, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Since when have we started to refer to the Seekers as our people?

    In any case, what do they expect us to do? Fight? For what cause? :lol:

    Doubt any of our men would want to die for the Seekers' right to secrecy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
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  2. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    I doubt this will shock too many people but the odds of the update being out tonight have taken a turn for the worst.

    Expect it to be posted either within the next two hours or in about twenty four hours.

    If it is any consolation it is a nice big one.
     
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  3. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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  4. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    :lol:

    It is making slow progress. A few things that need to be fixed, several pages that should probably be added to make it fit together better, that sort of thing. You have a lot of ground to cover in this update. It will probably take a few more days given my schedule.

    Though I suppose I could just cut it down by about half and remove some of the choices if you want it now...
     
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  5. Nevill Arcane

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    Naah, take your time. As long as no one dies and we get our doges. ;)
     
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  6. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    I'd like to have Enrico Dandolo as our doge.
     
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  7. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Well, it is not like you are about to screw over a bunch of paranoid and violent battlemages or anything... :lol:

    You will have a great many choices to make. More animals could be one of them if you want to go down that route, you will just have to see.

    Be careful what you wish for, you might wind up with this:

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    :negative:
     
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  8. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Guide to being a Seeker.
    1. Fail saving throws vs. Charm en masse.
    2. Blame your commander for not fighting off a force you yourself couldn't.
    3. Feel insulted about being bailed out by the same commander.
    Seems legit. :lol:

    :killitwithfire::flamesaw::killit:
     
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  9. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Well, they probably won't see it that way. :lol:

    Besides, they are mages, Nevill. Have you met any mages yet that are reasonable?
     
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  10. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Well, why don't we ask them what would they rather have us do instead and see if they can come up with something without sounding like inane children? ;)

    Of course. We, for example, are perfectly reasonable individuals. It's a shame so few others see that rather obvious fact, but we are constantly working on increasing their percentage in the world, one way or the other. :cool:
     
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  11. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Sorry, the vote is closed and I am not rewriting anything (laziness and all that ;)).

    You will get to see what they think and how they react just as soon as the update is out.
     
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  12. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    The suspense! :fuuyeah:
     
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  13. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    It's okay. We understand. Fighting Fallen Lords and Dark Gods is not for everyone. The Watcher is only second to Mazzarin, and it would be too much to ask that someone who grovels before a mere projection of the Great Mage would stand up to such powerful beings. There is no shame in crawling back to the caves and sitting this one out. :smug:
     
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  14. Nevill Arcane

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    Fangshi, since we have started modifying existing spells and deriving new ones, I just have to ask this.

    What is usually required from a mage to design a brand new spell? What are the pitfalls? Can a mage choose which casting tradition the spell would belong to, or does the spell itself determine the tradition it is best used with?

    Say, we wanted to create a perfect illusion - something that has smell, sound, appearance, and feels corporeal to the touch. How do we go about it?

    Or if we wanted to attach a certain magically enhanced emotional impact to the song (fear, enthrallment, inspiration). Where do we begin?

    How difficult would the process be?
     
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  15. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Usually? A desire to murder a rival... :lol:

    But that is probably not a helpful answer.

    What you need is an idea and the ability to sketch a path from your existing knowledge to the goal you wish to achieve. That is really all you require.

    There are certainly a number of things that are nice to have though:

    - An extensive magical and non-magical library to draw inspiration from

    - Colleagues that you can trust, to brainstorm with

    - Test subjects/volunteers so that you can have someone else risk their lives instead of risking your own

    - Material components, which could be anything really

    And the list goes on.

    Depends on the spell you are trying to create and the way you are trying to go about it.

    Magic is far too broad a subject to come up with a list of 'common' errors. Just as all mages are unique little snowflakes of hate and paranoia, so too are the errors that bring about their deaths/madness/possession/etc.

    The more aspects of the spell crafting process you can bring under strict control the less dangerous it will be. As with all things pertaining to magic it is often a case of being smart enough to notice the little details that can get you killed and wise enough to realize when pursuing an avenue of research is not worth the risk.

    Sure, you can try to cast any spell with any casting tradition, and if you are skilled enough in the tradition you choose you would probably succeed.

    The traditions, much like the magical schools themselves, are all constructed as tools, they exist to help mages cast the spells that they do, nothing more.

    In theory at least they are not needed at all.

    In practice though they prove to be essential.

    The perfect illusion?

    Well you would need to master illusions for that. You start with the basic principles of deception and then refine them until your illusions are as good as the real thing. At the same time you have to work to weave them together into a unified and harmonious whole that can overwhelm and alter the target's senses.

    You would also need to set up the conditions of the spell, is it the sort of spell that must be maintained?

    The answer is probably yes.

    How do you want to fuel it?

    You would need to refine your understanding of magical theory (and mastery of at least one tradition would probably help with that) to a point where you would be able to draw enough power to handle the spell on your own.

    Alternatively you could construct it as a ritual in which case you need to design it with discrete components (physical or magical) that different mages would complete together.

    Once you have the theory and the structure you have your spell. You have given the magic a purpose and you have set out the limits of what you hope to achieve. From that point on you simply have to test it and practice it until you have mastered it.

    That would depend on how you want to go about it really.

    Your goal is projecting the emotional state.

    You intend to use musical magic as the container to deliver it in.

    From there you just have to figure out how to alter someone's emotions.

    The easiest way to do that would be to learn a bunch of spells that you know will work and then observe how they function while you learn the theory behind them. Once you have a template to work from you would just need to adapt it to a different method of delivery.

    However, there is nothing physically stopping you from simply generating a spell with no prior knowledge either. It would require you to puzzle out what works and what does not completely from scratch though so it would be more difficult.

    That depends entirely on what you hope to do, how much you are willing to risk and how much you are willing to lose.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
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  16. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    What I am trying to do is to devise spells that would take an advantage of our unusual link with Taide and make spells that would otherwise be impossible for a single mage to cast.

    Something like group techniques, only designed that way rather than found out by a happy accident.

    Say, I wanted to replicate D&D Emotion spell.
    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD3e:Emotion

    An 'emotionally charged' song seeks to manipulate the minds of those who hear it. Would them Mass Suggestion/Compulsion work well as a template?

    How much time/how many attempts would it take to get there if we wanted to do it safely? Yeah, dice, I get it, but on average?
     
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  17. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    Well then you need to decide if you want to create two separate spells that can operate independently but can also combine into something more powerful.

    Or.

    Whether you want to create two 'half spells' that would generally do nothing on their own but when combined would yield the desired effect.

    The first method would be more draining and would likely take longer while the second method would probably be quicker if less useful in all situations.

    It could work, yes but that is not the only way to go about it either.

    Hmmm, the real problem is that Derry lacks a full understanding of Magical Theory (she was not indoctrinated/educated in a particular school or tradition as most mages are, instead she was an apprentice or 'free' mage), so there is a limit on how much she knows about subjects like this). She is fairly brilliant though for a mage not even in her third decade so she has managed to cobble together a general idea based on her past experiementation, this is how she goes about it:

    She tries to think it out step by step, by identifying the key components of what she needs, then she goes about filling in the gaps using her knowledge and intuition.

    In this case:

    Your goal is to instill an emotion in the target.

    Your means of delivery will be a song.

    That is your objective and you structure.

    Now you need a plan and from there, there are a variety of ways things could go.

    A few examples:

    The Mentalist's method:

    You start with compulsion/mass compulsion as you wish to force a change in the mind of the target directly.

    D&T then need to analyze the spell and figure out which parts are specifically about creating that change.

    Once they have successfully isolated those components they need to extract those aspects (these elements could be anything and would largely be based on the assumptions made and restrictions imposed by the sub-school and tradtition you are using).

    In this case you are operating from the 'generic' human tradition that works based on affinities, you are also working from the sub-school of human mentalist magic which emphasizes precision, control and emotional detachment.

    So you would try to create a mental/emotional state within yourselves that allows for a clear and detached viewing of your target. Once that state is achieved you would cast out your mind at the target and attempt to force an idea or memory upon them in an attempt to provoke a specific emotional state. Since you would be mass casting this at multiple targets you would not be able to tailor the image to each individual though, it would have to be a general/generic thought/idea/memory (there are ways around this though which I will briefly touch on later).

    So now you have your goal, you have the structure you are going to use and you have a plan on how to use that structure to carry out your aim.

    At this point you need to fill in the details.

    You will be using a song so you need to structure the song, you need to determine what (if any) instruments to use, how many people are required at the minimum to perform it, what sort of genre should the spell belong to and so on.

    This is your limiting step. This is where you give the spell boundaries so that you can actually control and cast it. Remember, magic can do anything and it does not care about you, if you let it, it will tear you apart. As the caster you are the weak link in the chain that is the spell, you are the part that is most likely to fail and you are also the single biggest factor in its success nine times out of ten. So you always need a clear idea of what you hope to achieve and how.

    Back to the spell, you are going to want a spell that emphasizes technical skill and control of your instruments (voice, guitar, etc) with a minimum of emotion on your part. This will make the music 'cold' and will also require a fair degree of natural talent or training to pull it off.

    The more emotion you can strip out of the performance and the greater the divide you can create between yourselves and your targets the better this particular song will function since emotion will compromise your ability to mercilessly manipulate the memories and thoughts of others in much the same way as you do when you cast mass compulsion.

    You also need high technical skill to give the song as much precision as possible. It is unlikely that you want everyone that hears your music to suffer/benefit from its effects so you need to be able to direct the spell away from those you don't want to effect and toward your intended target. The more control you have the more precise you can be.

    You are obviously not going to be able to cast anything else while you play this song, it will command too much of your attention (at least with your current level of skill/magical reserves) so it will impose penalties to casting while you work on it.

    It will also need to be maintained as most musical magic does.

    So now you have your goal, you have your structure, you have a plan and you have the necessary limits needed to make it feasible. From there you just need to test it and practice it until you have it mastered.

    One additional wrinkle exists for songs though. They are all incredibly malleable. Where your normal spells would require drawing up variations for every aspect you expect to alter your songs can be changed simply by playing with the base components.

    Now, I mentioned earlier that you would need to use a general idea rather than one tailored for each target since you will not have the time/energy to find something unique to each individual. I also said that, perhaps, there was a way around that. If you included enough musicians in the spell then you could tailor individual experiences for each target. How much is enough? Enough is one per target. So if your song included a choir of fifty mentalists then they could each pick out a specific target plus the two or three from your 'main band' and you could hit 53 people with highly effective compulsions.

    Of course you would require fifty trained mentalists willing to work together which would not be easy to find. ;)

    You could also strengthen the spell by increasing the number of musicians, in this case you would use them to reinforce the music played by your core group. They could act either as batteries for your people or as a means of amplifying the power of the spell. Just be aware that you and your people would have a harder time controlling such a spell.

    And there you go, a possible mentalist song that achieves the desire effect but t is not the only way to go about things.

    The Illusionist's method:

    D&T don't know much of anything about illusions but Lys informs you that you could also bring about terror/hope/anger/joy through illusions. You would trick the senses of the target(s) instead of invading their minds.

    In just about every way the method to create this spell would be identical to the above mentalist method. The emotional/mental state would be similar and the difficulties you would face would also be similar.

    You would need to rely heavily on Lys for this though as she is the only illusionist you know.

    The Elementalist's method:

    Now this is a bit different but it could also work. Elementalists (proper ones, I mean) are trained to channel certain emotions into themselves (fire=hatred, air=joy, earth=serenity, ice=also hatred, interestingly enough, just a different type) but if they thought about it they could probably project those emotions outward at others and musical magic is well suited to sharing that sort of energy.

    Now, you do not know enough about elemental magic to know how it would work but you suspect the spells would rely heavily on emotion and intensity rather than musicianship and control. You also suspect that each elementalist would only be able to conjure up specific emotions at will instead of the whole range.

    The possible tradeoff though is that these spells would be innately more powerful than the mentalist or illusionist version. They would certainly be harder to control (if the musician even desired to control them) and they would likely be more difficult to direct but they would come from the 'natural' state of the mage and would almost be second nature to him/her.

    You do not know any proper elementalists though so all of this is speculation.

    Other methods:

    There are probably other methods of achieving the desire effects (or something like them) as well. But most of the other fields are heavily underdeveloped so you would definitely be breaking new group there.

    Derry has no idea. Magic is in no way standardized and it is definitely not a 'science' in the modern sense of the word. On top of that she does not have the easy answers of a tradition/school education to fall back on so she has to go from her own experience making up spells.

    It took her the better part of a week to figure out the runes on your tower and she had a full library for that.

    She was able to create Iron Will in about ten minutes, from when the idea hit her.

    Your modified Retrieve Item spell took you a few days if I remember right.

    The rune spell posed no real danger to you at any point (I suppose it might have exploded if you used Brigit's exploding runes as a starting point but you did not so there was no real risk at all).

    Greater Heal took a few days but you also had a Heron Guard helping you and it was and is a dangerous ritual to undertake on your own. There is a reason it requires four skilled mages to conduct safely.

    Greater Firebolt was quick and easy to come up with though you were thinking about the best way to do it for a while. All told it probably took you a few weeks of thinking to figure out but it was a fairly easy modification and the risk to you from the spell was/is nonexistent. It is a simple tool and easy to use if you have the magical reserves necessary.

    Iron Will could have permanently removed some or all of your ability to empathize with others if you botched the wrong roll but that odds of that were fairly low and you were working without much of any preparation.

    The retrieve item spell could have let some sort of mind devouring horror into the world, I suppose, and that likely would have killed you or driven you mad but again nothing happened.

    Calm Casting and The Conqueror's Path are both fairly simple spells. They did not take long to create and since their effects are fairly mild they are also not really dangerous in any substantial way.

    Taide as has an example to contribute.

    The Greater Energy Bold spell took her about a week to figure out but she also did not have the power necessary to try it for some time. In essence she spent several weeks just playing around with it before she even considered attempting it in the field.

    So, those are your examples and about the only thing you have to work from when trying to gauge the risks of what you want to do.

    As far as times goes, it looks like this:

    Least Time Spent- The Conqueror's Path < Iron Will < Lost's Retrieve Item < Calm Casting < Greater Heal < Warding Runes < Greater Firebolt < Greater Energy Bolt -Most Time Spent

    As far as danger goes, it looks like this:

    Least Dangerous- Calm Casting < The Conqueror's Path < Greater Energy Bolt = Greater Firebolt < Warding Runes < Iron Will < Lost's Retrieve Item < Greater Heal -Most Dangerous

    The longer you spend researching the spell the longer it will take and the safer it will be, generally speaking. Some things will always be dangerous though and the only way to make them safer is to make yourselves (your bodies/minds) less easy to destroy.

    Mazzarin can do all sorts of insane things, not because they are safe in and of themselves, but because they can't hurt him. :cool:
     
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  18. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    :yeah:
    How tough is the guy? What can his resilience be compared to?
     
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  19. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    He can't really be compared to much of anything anymore. Really, he is the standard that you compare others to.

    So for example:

    Mazzarin = 1 Mazzarin
    The Watcher (at his full power) = 0.91 Mazzarins
    Balor = 0.87 Mazzarins
    The Spider Goddess = 0.75 Mazzarins
    The Deceiver = 0.72 Mazzarins
    Murgen = 0.68 Mazzarins
    Morpheus = 0.65 Mazzarins
    Alric (after the wars) = 0.60 Mazzarins
    The Lady = 0.59 Mazzarins
    The Faceless = 0.56 Mazzarins
    The Voiceless One = 0.5 Mazzarins
    Shiver = 0.5 Mazzarins
    Rabican = 0.48 Mazzarins
    The Lurker = 0.40 Mazzarins
    Maeldun = 0.37 Mazzarins
    Cu Roi = 0.35 Mazzarins
    Phelot = 0.34 Mazzarins
    Average Shade = 0.3 Mazzarins
    Soulblighter = 0.25 Mazzarins


    Non archmages/demon lords = too small to measure :lol:


    You got a taste of what he can do in his update though. He can wipe out minor planes and their demonic lords without breaking stride for example.

    He could reach up and punch the head off a fully armoured Trow if he ever felt that was neccesary as well... :lol:
     
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  20. Jester Arbiter

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    "Now, I mentioned earlier that you would need to use a general idea rather than one tailored for each target since you will not have the time/energy to find something unique to each individual. I also said that, perhaps, there was a way around that. If you included enough musicians in the spell then you could tailor individual experiences for each target. How much is enough? Enough is one per target. So if your song included a choir of fifty mentalists then they could each pick out a specific target plus the two or three from your 'main band' and you could hit 53 people with highly effective compulsions."
    Or we get one mage for general song and use second to add components aimed at harder targets.


    "Of course you would require fifty trained mentalists willing to work together which would not be easy to find. ;)"
    Mouses counts? Is so not that hard. ;D
     
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  21. Jester Arbiter

    Jester
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    "Mazzarin = 1 Mazzarin
    The Spider Goddess = 0.75 Mazzarins"
    I recall you written that normal archmage is 3 x times more powerful than spider goddess. Looks like resistance is harder to get?

    "Non archmages/demon lords = too small to measure :lol:


    You got a taste of what he can do in his update though. He can wipe out minor planes and their demonic lords without breaking stride for example.

    He could reach up and punch the head off a fully armoured Trow if he ever felt that was neccesary as well... :lol:"
    Heads huh?

    [​IMG]
    Show Spoiler
    And word for big M.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    It is possible that, that was true when I wrote it as her power is subject to a great deal of fluctuation, largely based on the number of followers she has in the physical world pouring energy into her plane (and into herself as a result).

    The ranks of her followers have swelled recently for some reason... :lol:

    Her place on the list there is also her maximum current power. So that would be in her own plane, as opposed to in the Dreaming or the physical world. Cut her off from her plane's power and she would drop just about to the bottom of that list. Incidentally, that goes for most of the 'younger' Demon Sovereigns in general. Without their planes to draw from they usually can not keep up with mortal mages.

    An example would have been the fight between Faceless and Morpheus. Faceless is more powerful, in and of himself, but Morpheus has an entire plane to draw from so the longer the fight would have gone on the more powerful Morpheus would have grown.
     
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  23. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Hmmm. Do I read it right that the spell allows us to channel more energy than it is usually possible for a spell (increased energy consumption and more potent spells)?

    If so, does it mean that we can charge our rings/plates with more powerful versions of Elemental spells if we cast them under the influence of the Conqueror's Path? But since we would not actually be under the spell when we activate the rings, the penalty to accuracy would not apply. So this meta-spell allows us to improve our stored spells without additional costs.

    Or do I misunderstand something?
     
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  24. Fangshi Arcane

    Fangshi
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    When the spell is fired it would still suffer from the accuracy penalty. Even if you are not currently using the spell or if you gave it to someone else. The extra energy packed into the spell comes with that natural tradeoff in control.


    Edit:

    I am hesitant to make any more promises but I should have plenty of time on Sunday to finish this update. It will be up late Sunday night or early Monday morning I figure.


    Edit 2:

    The update is making good progress. It should be up some time Monday when I have a moment to add all the options and give it a once over. (So either in the next six-eight hours or in twenty hours when I get back to my computer).

    The mechanics update should follow fairly quickly after it is posted, it should be a fairly large post given the information you will have access to so I might hold off until they are both ready to go at once.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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  25. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    One day, this LP will be updated. :happytrollboy:
     
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