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Myth: A New Age CYOA

Absinthe

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Do continue. :lol:
Logistics. Also, in case it wasn't obvious yet, I want to take our mobility to the skies.
 

Baltika9

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Not going to work with Faceless out there, I am afraid. The moment we start working with him openly, his rival will consider us enemies and we don't really have the means to protect ourselves.
I know whose side I'm on.
 

Nevill

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I know whose side I'm on.
Well, it is really hard to take the Faceless' side, you know? :lol:

But it does not mean you could get on his bad side without paying the price.

Flying hounds?
Think higher. Flying dwarves.

Whatever we do, we are limited by the speed of elephants who are pulling the wagons with our troops. Unless all of them learn to fly, I foresee no improvements on that front.
 
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Karwelas

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Whatever we do, we are limited by the speed of elephantrs who are pulling the wagons with our troops. Unless all of them learn to fly, I foresee no improvements on that front.
Unless all of them learn to fly.
Learn to fly.

100711_NF_FS_Dumbo70Anniversary_feature1.jpg


:lol:
Sorry, I had to.
 

Nevill

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:hmmm:

I remember the spell Deumus cast on Forcas to make him lighter and send him flying.

It may just be possible.

Then we stop channeling and drop an elephant on the enemy for massive physical and psychological damage... :lol:
 

Karwelas

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I imagine it. Elephants bombs... that is just too cruel, to both enemy and these poor animals. Even Mazzarin would say 'What the fuck is wrong with you, girl?'.
 

Nevill

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Eh. When we make up Melete we will make her work on special springs to upgrade them to bouncing elephant bombs. A lot of fun for the animal, a lot of pain for everyone else in its way.
 

Absinthe

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Whatever we do, we are limited by the speed of elephants who are pulling the wagons with our troops. Unless all of them learn to fly, I foresee no improvements on that front.
The fuck? :lol: We've already had detours where we separated from our main forces.

Wow. Fii starts to look more and more awesome, especially when we finally manage to rouse Melete...
Trouble with Fii is that Dian Cécht's method involves making the prosthetics out of silver. That's going to be ludicrously expensive, not particularly durable, and require repairs instead of healing. It's really no better than our current Greater Heal. There's a reason why the myth flat-out considers Miach to have outperformed his father by regenerating the arm instead.

We still have the Heron Guard's scrolls to decipher for that.
Trouble with using the Heron Guard scrolls is that the Heron Guard takes a very dim view on that and we kinda need all the good rep with the empire that we can get. Fangshi, what's the punishment for stealing the Heron Guard magics? And would Miach's method let us sense herbs and mandrake roots in particular like Serpent could?

Also, if we were to spend the trip just preparing Path of Intellect, how many of the fey could we boost with them?
 
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Fangshi

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Absinthe said:
Fangshi, what's the punishment for stealing the Heron Guard magics?

Well the Heron Guard like to position themselves as a force for good in the world, fighting for the Emperor and the Empire, loyally defending the laws of the Cath Bruig and so on.

But.

At the end of the day they are a Circle and just like any other Circle (the Warlocks for example) they do not like people, that do not belong to their Circle, practicing their magical theory. That is why Eagle was so keenly interested in just where you learnt your healing magic from.

They would definitely object if they knew you were using their theories to cast, unlike the Warlock though they would not immediately try and murder you and all you hold dear.

If they caught you using Heron specific spell techniques they would definitely try to detain you and bring you before their elders. They would then likely get one of the Grand Masters to go into your mind and erase the knowledge, this may or may not have the side effect of killing you, it would depend on how careful they were and how strong your body/mind is.

It is within the realm of possibility though that they might let you keep the knowledge if you could prove yourself a staunch supporter of the Empire, the Emperor and the Light (in that order). That may or may not be difficult to do when you keep the company of thieves, former prostitutes, sell-swords, demons, former necromancers (though they would never make the distinction between current and former), and potential Fallen Lords.

Absinthe said:
And would Miach's method let us sense herbs and mandrake roots in particular like Serpent could?

Maybe not sense them per se, but you would pick up a lot of herbal lore and that would let you figure out where plants (including mandrake roots) may be found. If you pursued it dutifully you would likely learn things that even Serpent does not know, practice for year, decades, and you may even become a better physician than he is.

Of course, if you then taught Serpent all of this knowledge he would almost certainly become the finest physician that has ever lived since his natural talents well outstrip D&T's.

Absinthe said:
Also, if we were to spend the trip just preparing Path of Intellect, how many of the fey could we boost with them?

Over a dozen by this point I should think (since you would have a few hours to work) but you would need to negotiate with Finn to keep a handful of his people on hand. Cropper is the only one that stays with you (provided you do not choose one of the recruitment options for your gift). Otherwise you would need Cropper to call to Finn on the horn and await the arrival of the host which would delay your actions a bit.
 
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Nevill

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Absinthe said:
Trouble with Fii is that Dian Cécht's method involves making the prosthetics out of silver.
Fangshi said:
So that is a yes for his body. You would essentially rebuild the majority of it out of silver or steel or whatever you want really.
:M

Absinthe said:
Trouble with using the Heron Guard scrolls is that the Heron Guard takes a very dim view on that and we kinda need all the good rep with the empire that we can get.
Fangshi said:
"Perhaps," he holds your gaze, when you do not back down he shrugs, "Perhaps not. I merely ask as it is forbidden for members of my order to teach spells to outsiders. If you learnt this spell from a Heron Guard I am honour bound to find out who."
:M

Eagle had few problems with us knowing Heal as their ire is directed to those who violate their oaths instead. As he found no evidence that our knowledge came from fellow Herons, he let it slide.

Anyway, I would not worry about learning Heron magic any more than about keeping a Fallen Lord in our backpack or a necromancer in our party. If we can keep that a secret, I am sure we can keep our mouth shut about our spells or their origins as well.

Fangshi, when Finn goes away, I would like to ask Berty a few questions about fairies. Namely, what was the significance of salt and the siver/iron knife (what exactly they do to the fairies), and the basic etiquette, so we don't accidentally insult them without meaning to. What they like or dislike, what they respect or despise, that kind of thing.

Why was he not affected by Finn's spell? It it by virtue of his blood? Also, why weren't Biliku and Uttu affected?

What was the significance of his insistence at the table? Was there really a danger of Finn doing anything after promising not to delay us, considering how he treats his oaths?
 

Fangshi

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Nevill said:
Namely, what was the significance of salt and the siver/iron knife (what exactly they do to the fairies)

Well, he has encountered a few theories in his time. He met a priest once that told him of the final battle between Nyx and Wyrd over the world he had created. A terrible battle to be sure and one that ended in Nyx's death at Wyrd's hand.

It is said that iron is Nyx's blood, it rained down upon the world and soaked into the very earth where it pooled together and hardened underground. The priest was convinced this was true and it does nicely explain the affinity the Trow have for iron as they are both 'children' of Nyx.

Silver on the other hand is Wyrd's tears, shed at the realization that he had been forced to kill his only companion to preserve his creation and mortal existence. It is said he wept for thirty days and that those tears fell upon the earth and were absorbed as well. When they pooled together they formed silver.

Salt was also created from Wyrd's tears. As the liquid of his tears sank into the earth the salt was left near the surface in most cases.

The priest had further explanations for every mineral one could find in the earth but Berty drifted off to sleep at about the time the priest was talking about lapis lazuli.

Berty does not know if he believes that priest or not.

He thinks it might be simpler than that. He thinks iron is the vital force of the world, it is to the world as blood is to the human body (both are also widely associated with ochre, if you can't find iron and do not want to use blood for magic then you might just be able to cheat a little and substitute ochre).

It symbolizes life and is vital in the functioning of life. It is the farmer's hoe, the mason's trowel, from iron man has raised himself above the beasts, and yet, it also symbolizes death.

It is the knife that butchers a hog, it is the scythe that harvests the wheat, it is the sword that cuts down a man.

Iron is life. Iron is death.

Iron is mortality and there are few things that terrify the fey more than mortality.

As an aside one of the greatest crimes the Forest Giants charge the Trow with is the 'corruption of the soul of Iron', they took its purity and forever tarnished it in war, in slavery, in oppression. They took the vital life force of the world and used it to perpetrate genocide. For this, they can not be forgiven.

The silver is not so much for fairies but some of the things that accompany them. Silver has a purity to it and also a weight, if the old priest was right then silver represents regret but also determination and the will to do what is necessary to protect oneself and others. It is a 'serious' metal, one of consequences and that weight seems naturally at odd with the flighty and often irresponsible servants of the fairies.

All dubious theories aside, he knows from experience that it stands a better chance of getting around many of the natural protective magics that enshroud some of the more dangerous creatures out there.

Salt, he is not too sure about. If it really is associated with Wyrd that may be part of the reason why it works but again he thinks it might be simpler than that. Salt preserves, it prevents rot, decay and change. The constantly changing fairies loathe such stability for the most part. Salt seems to burn most of them, as if you threw hot oil upon them and Berty believes that is the reason. It attempts to fix their natures in place and their very bodies reject such stability, destroying them or at least seriously hurting them.

Showering Finn in salt would not kill him but it would sear most of the exposed skin on his body, it would blind him and disfigure him for quite some time as well. It was a serious if not life-threatening promise to make.

Nevill said:
and the basic etiquette, so we don't accidentally insult them without meaning to. What they like or dislike, what they respect or despise, that kind of thing.

Right, general rules:

1. Always be polite
2. Don't accept any gifts

However those are going to need a bit of an explanation.

So, always be polite. It largely means just what it says, don't stare, don't make rude comments, that sort of thing. But there are a few tricks involved.

You need to keep in mind whether you are dealing with a solitary fairy or a trooping fairy (most of the time it will be a trooping fairy since the solitary ones will actively avoid you). You also need to keep in mind whether you are dealing with a Great fairy or a lesser fairy, in essence are you talking to a noble or a commoner?

Different rules apply for each.

When dealing with a trooping, Great Fairy, like Finn for example, you can offer gifts if it is something you know they will like (the horses for example were quite a good gift). However, it is possible to offend them by offering them a very unsuitable gift (which largely depends on the temperament and interests of the fairy). Most of the Great fairies, and especially the trooping ones, have a lot of experience interacting with mortals and some have even had mortal spouses at different times in their lives. As a result they are 'easier' to get along with for the most part and they may even be willing to forgive the odd minor mistake if they like you and know you are trying to be polite.

They will take oaths seriously though so if you commit to something they will expect you to see it through and they will become angry out of proportion with the event if you don't. Also, if you have become good friends with a great trooping fairy then do not snub them unnecessarily, if you intend to hold a grand party or open celebration be sure to invite them and ensure you have enough settings for them. There is nothing more dangerous than a fairy that feels slighted.

Solitary great fairies are more openly dangerous than their trooping kin. But, they are also easier to get a handle on. Nine times out of ten they want to be left alone. They do not want gifts, they do not want attention, they do not want to spend time in idle chatter with a mortal. Be polite, get to the business at hand, give them fair payment for any service they do for you or any goods they make/get for you and then leave.

Do not thank them for services rendered or goods created/acquired. They did it for the pay not for your gratitude and they will be offended if you thank them. They will immediately assume you are trying to get out of paying with fine words and they will act accordingly.

Trooping lesser fairies are much like trooping greater fairies only less refined and more animal like. If they do you a service then pay them in food, if they do you a great service then you may give them a new shirt or set of clothing. Be aware though, if they feel your payment is not equal to the task they may take offense (if it is too low) or they may decided they can abuse your working relationship (if you pay them too much).

Either way, from their perspective they are teaching you a lesson in price and value.

An example, you are a peasant farmer and a few minor fairies decide to harvest your wheat for you.

1. You underpay: You give them no payment - they become offended and spoil your harvest
2. You overpay: You give them all fine new clothes - they continue to harvest your wheat but from then on they will expect fine new clothes at regular intervals on top of their regular payment. They will become accustomed to the extra reward and if they ever do not receive it they will quit and quite possibly spoil your harvest
3. You give the correct payment: You give them a bowl of milk each night - they take the payment gladly, a solid meal for a bit of labour is a fair trade and they will work for you so long as they get their milk. If you ever fail to pay then they will quit and if they think you exploited them somehow they may also ruin your harvest

Fairies also have different personalities and expectations which will also have a bearing on how likely they are to be cruel to you.
Finally, do not watch a fairy while they are working, they will grow offended that you feel the need to supervise them and they will likely do something you will not like.

Lesser solitary fairies work exactly the same as the greater one. Do not waste your time on pleasantries, they have no desire to be your friend, any interaction is merely a business transaction and you should get it over with in a polite and professional manner. Keep in mind that lesser, solitary fairies are the most physcially threatening of all the fairies since they are the most animalistic and the quickest to violence.


As for the second rule about gifts, the fairies are big on debts, owing debts to each other and getting mortals to owe them. So, if they offer you something there will always be a price attached. If they call it a gift, just remember it isn't usually. Either you have done something that has put them in your debt (and they want to erase that debt) or they are offering you something int the hopes you will take it and fall into their debt.

They won't always tell you this up front.

They will feel it is their right to call in the favour whenever they want and if you refuse or are unable to pay then they will probably take whatever they can steal that is of 'equal' value.

Nevill said:
Why was he not affected by Finn's spell? It it by virtue of his blood? Also, why weren't Biliku and Uttu affected?

Not close enough, he grabbed the girls and headed for the mortars as soon as he figured out what Finn was planning, also Berty's blood gives him a bit of natural resistance.

Nevill said:
What was the significance of his insistence at the table? Was there really a danger of Finn doing anything after promising not to delay us, considering how he treats his oaths?

Berty saw no reason to take any risk. Finn swore an oath and would likely do his best to abide by it since he is generally a good sort but you never know. Berty has heard of mortals that have consumed fairy food and/or drink and become bound to them as a result. Of course he has also heard of fairies that have consumed mortal food and/or drink and become bound to the mortals so it seems to go both ways.

He is not sure what conditions are necessary to create such a bond though which is why he wanted to ensure that you all ate mortal food instead of whatever Finn has on hand.
 
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Karwelas

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There is nothing more dangerous than a fairy that feels slighted.

'Are you so sure, Berty? May I remind you about Mazzarin, Fallen Lords, spider demons and a lot more things that we meet already? By the way, I heard that Mazzarin is interested in you after your action back there.'

I would say that to him only to see his face. And pants. :lol:
 

Nevill

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Well, we are yet to slight someone like Berty. :M

We are probably the next closest thing to such a person, and our enemies tend to have their life expectancy on the lower side. :)

Maybe it is the Gods and Fallen Lords who need to be concerned instead. ;)
 

Fangshi

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Karwelas said:
'Are you so sure, Berty? May I remind you about Mazzarin, Fallen Lords, spider demons and a lot more things that we meet already? By the way, I heard that Mazzarin is interested in you after your action back there.'

Mazzarin, the Fallen Lords and the spider demons will just kill you for the most part. The fairies won't stop at that, you could get 'tabled'... or worse. :lol:

Karwelas said:
I would say that to him only to see his face. And pants. :lol:

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. If that happens he might disappear for a few days... or weeks... or years... ;)

Mazzarin can't kill what he can't find, just ask Faceless, he has been playing that game for over one thousand years now.
 

Absinthe

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Over a dozen by this point I should think (since you would have a few hours to work) but you would need to negotiate with Finn to keep a handful of his people on hand. Cropper is the only one that stays with you (provided you do not choose one of the recruitment options for your gift). Otherwise you would need Cropper to call to Finn on the horn and await the arrival of the host which would delay your actions a bit.
I was under the impression that we were already coordinating our movements with the fey to mislead the ghols into attacking the dwarves.

Also, I have a feeling Fey Lore and Fey Etiquette are going to be rather important skills for future dealings with the fey. I assume these rules also apply to the dogs who may be in our service? How would we determine what is proper payment for their labours?
 
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Fangshi

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Absinthe said:
I was under the impression that we were already coordinating our movements with the Sídhe to mislead the ghols into attacking the dwarves.

Yes, but they are not currently with you, only Cropper is (and any gift you may have received). To coordinate with them, Cropper will have to summon them up (they generally sleep during the day and the dwarven civil war does not interest them really so they probably are not watching this fight) which will take a while (you do not know how long). Once they are awake and have linked up with you will be able to enchant their gear on the way to the battlefield if you wish.

Absinthe said:
Also, I have a feeling Fey Lore and Fey Etiquette are going to be rather important skills for future dealings with the fey. I assume these rules also apply to the dogs who may be in our service? How would we determine what is proper payment for their labours?

Yes, the same rules apply to the dogs.

Normally you would have to guess. (Yeah fairies can be dickish like that, they expect you to guess and then punish you if you guess wrong. To them it is a game.)

But you have Berty and he knows Finn's hounds. Food will do for most things, some fresh meat, none of that salted crap, and maybe some milk or cheese, they like dairy but it gives them gas so be warned.

If you want them to do something they absolutely don't want to do then there is only one bribe he has found to always work... dishes of pistachio gelato. It is weird but the hounds love the stuff and he swears it works every time. Don't promise it to them too readily though or they will begin to expect it for every little thing they do.

Of course, don't expect them to charge an archmage or do something suicidal for a little food.
 

Fangshi

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Baltika9 said:
What about a lot of food?

For a moment Berty hesitates, then he shakes his head.

They may be dogs but they are also fairies, if it is too much like hard work you will need something more to motivate them.
 

Fangshi

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No they only eat artisan, hand churned gelato. None of that mass produced factory stuff I am afraid.

But if you could get them maybe ten or twenty slave volunteer children laborers to make it for them, twenty hours a day and seven days a week, then they might consider the offer if it was not too outrageously suicidal.
 

Fangshi

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Baltika9 said:
And if we underpay them, they will piss on the rug?

Yes, also they will chew up your finest shoes. The will tear the whole collection to shreds and sit around looking innocent about it.
 

Nevill

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I have a question about the setting's cosmology and overall relationships between the Light and the Dark.

What exactly are those?

I've seen the Light being defined as 'something that opposes the Dark', so I guess if we can define just one of them, we would be able to understand what the opposite means.

But it is not an easy job, considering that most inhabitants in the setting use 'the Dark' to contrast 'us' and 'them', with little regard to its actual meaning (if there is one). The Seekers are certain they fight the Dark when they are opposing demons, Dark Gods and even fairies, none of which are necessarily associated with it. Similarly, we labeled the Eberhards its servants to make their murder justified in the eyes of the populace, not because these particular accusations were truthful. Most people use it as a label that would explain without an explanation why certain things need to be destroyed.

So what is 'the Dark', really? The force that is out to destroy the World? But the cycles of the Light and Dark suggest that the world only changes states. Sure, from the perspective of humans and dwarves and the like-minded races it changes for the worse (the ghols and Myrkridia would probably disagree, and Trow would likely remain ambivalent), but can it be really called 'the enemy of life' if life still persists, albeit the dominant species change?

What is the point of the existence of the Leveller, what is it that he is trying to do? For how long the Levellers exist, for how long does the cycle exist? I know that almost no people in the setting can answer these questions, but we have stumbled on someone who predates the known history of humanity.

Is the Watcher a servant of the Dark? What makes him so? Are his necromancers? Are ghols or spider demons? What makes them different?

Supposed the triumph of the Dark is the end goal of the Leveller (seeing how he is its 'Champion'), can the Watcher's campaign against the Kingdom really be said to pursue the same goals as Balor's? Or is he, like any archmage or any of the Dark Gods, merely pushes his own agenda?

Is Faceless a servant of the Dark? Well, he is Mazzarin's enemy, and the mage proclaims himslelf to be pro-Light, but does it make his enemies automatically aligned with the Dark?

It gets even murkier if we go further. Is the Deceiver of the Dark? He was its ally during the first war, and an ally of the Light in the second. Is 'the Dark' just a banner that one can raise and lower at will? You fight for it one day, and you fight against it the next.

That may or may not be difficult to do when you keep the company of thieves, former prostitutes, sell-swords, demons, former necromancers (though they would never make the distinction between current and former), and potential Fallen Lords.
Why would then the Herons not make a distinction between a former necromancer and a current one? Didn't they fight side by side with the Fallen Lord? Did it not shake their beliefs just a little? Do they think that their Emprah allied himself with the follower of the Dark (since there are no 'former' race traitors)?

Or did they not concern themselves with philosophy and went along with the line of thinking that 'if it is fighting for us and for our Emperor, then it is on the side of Light'? But if a Shade or a Fallen Lord can be brought to Light, why a necromancer can't?

If it is just a banner, does it have a meaning outside of the humanoid races who get shafted once another Age of Darkness comes? The Trow are not servants of the Dark and yet they prospered in the Axe Age. Clearly they could not care less. Were there even ages of Light and Darkness before humans and Wyrd's races came into being - for, say, Callieach or some other species?

Similarly, what determines if one is considered 'of the Light'? Working against the Dark to protect Wyrd's races? If we are to see nationalistic (racist? :lol:) movements where one would act to defend their race/nation at the cost of throwing another under the bus, would they still be considered 'of the Light'?

It all becomes terribly sketchy when the danger passes and all that is left are remnants of the enemy armies squabbling with each other and unable to put an end to the world as we know it. When the situation is like this, it looks no different from just another conflict with no particular higher meaning to it. It becomes easy to believe that the Dark has lost and everything that happens has no relation to it.


The fairies have been here long before the humans were. Are they of the Light, or are they like Trow or many others indifferent to it? It's okay, we are not Mazzarin. Can we ask them if they noticed the changes of the Ages? And if so (and I assume because of their proximity to humans and dwarves they might have), was there the Cycle and were there Levellers before what we call the Axe Age?
 
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Fangshi

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Nevill said:
What exactly are those?

I've seen the Light being defined as 'something that opposes the Dark', so I guess if we can define just one of them, we would be able to understand what the opposite means.

But it is not an easy job, considering that most inhabitants in the setting use 'the Dark' to contrast 'us' and 'them', with little regard to its actual meaning (if there is one). The Seekers are certain they fight the Dark when they are opposing demons, Dark Gods and even fairies, none of which are necessarily associated with it. Similarly, we labeled the Eberhards its servants to make their murder justified in the eyes of the populace, not because these particular accusations were truthful. Most people use it as a label that would explain without an explanation why certain things need to be destroyed.

So what is 'the Dark', really? The force that is out to destroy the World? But the cycles of the Light and Dark suggest that the world only changes states. Sure, from the perspective of humans and dwarves and the like-minded races it changes for the worse (the ghols and Myrkridia would probably disagree, and Trow would likely remain ambivalent), but can it be really called 'the enemy of life' if life still persists, albeit the dominant species change?

Well, a lot hangs on who is using the terms and what their purpose for doing so is.

The Light and the Dark are very poorly defined terms as they are used within everyday speech and political discourse. This is largely because most people do not stop and think about what exactly they mean when they use the term. It is used as a general catch all category for 'things that are bad' and 'vaguely magical' in nature.

Because the terms are different for each person that uses them it is damn near impossible to nail down a practical definition of each beyond: Light = good and Dark = bad.

Maybe a few examples would help:

You are a peasant, you can't write, you can barely read, the only time you have left your village was to flee Soulblighter's armies and when he was defeated you returned home and started to rebuild things.

A new year comes around and you plant your crops, your neighbor plants his crops and so does everyone in the village.

Scenario #1:
Your crops fail.

Everyone else has their crops succeed. You are the victim of bad luck or maybe of some specific natural cause if there is someone around that could make that diagnosis.

You will just have to try and scrape by on charity and hope next year is better.

Scenario #2:
Your crops fail and everyone else's crops fail.

Except your neighbor's. Now there are lots of natural reasons something like this could happen but you don't look to those, no, you know what is going on here! Your neighbor is a witch in league with the Dark and is sabotaging your village's chances at survival. So you round up a group of like-minded folk and you go over to your neighbor's house, kick in his door, drag him out into the street and you put him to the test. Which is designed so he will fail (but never mind that) and then you kill him and burn the body.

Next year's harvest will be better for sure!


The Dark as a concept is amorphous, it could be anyone or anything but it always seeks to undermine your peace and prosperity. You know it when you see it, even if you are technically wrong nine times out of ten.

That is how the Dark and the Light are used by people every day throughout the known lands. Is it right? No, but it works well enough. The concept of the Dark gives a person someone/something external to blame their failures on while the concept of the Light gives them something to draw strength from and a reason to keep on going instead of just curling up and dying.

At least that is how Finn sees it used when he watches the peasants and minor lords near his home going about their business.

There are other, more precise ways it is used though and he has witnessed those as well.

In academic circles the Dark refers specifically to the Leveler and his followers. So it is a far more limited technical term. The Light refers to those that oppose the Leveler, and in particular the champion that arises to defeat him.

So in this case the only proper use of the term 'the Dark' is when referring to Moagim or Balor and those that served them like the Fallen Lords or the Myrkridia.

The only proper use of the Light, in turn, in when referring to Alric or Connacht or Tireces and their armies (the Avatara, the Legion, and so on).

The Light and the Dark then become fixed to the champions in question. So Moagim, as the Leveler, represents the Dark in that age but his generals only chose to serve the Dark. They could in theory forsake it though that is no guarantee that those who claim to follow the Light would actually accept them or treat them any differently.

Is the Dark out to 'destroy the world'?

Well the answer to that is that no one knows. The Light has scored a number of complete victories, Tireces over the unnamed Leveler of his age, Connacht over Moagim, and most recently Alric over Balor. In all of these cases the hero of the Light broke the armies of the Leveler and killed the champion of the Dark in single combat.

(Though it is worth noting that Alric tricked Balor, he cheated, if it had come down to a proper mage duel Alric would not have stood a chance, he simply lacked the magical reserves to fight that battle. This further underscores the fact that Alric was technically supposed to lose the war. It was the Dark's turn to win but Alric does not play by the rules.)

The Dark, by contrast has yet to actually score a complete victory. The best they have ever done is a partial victory. Moagim (the first Moagim) won his war but he died in the process. The champion of the Light failed to stop the Myrkridian hordes from spilling out upon the world and driving mankind back to a handful of cities isolated from each other by a sea of wilderness and darkness. The 'civilized' world clung to those cities until Connacht's rise and his absolute victory over his enemies and the second Moagrim (the Dark). We do not know what the first Moagim would have done if he had come into possession of the world. Perhaps he would have ruled over it or perhaps he would have ended it...

From the perspective of the Myrkridia it was a golden age, Finn can assure you of that. All throughout the east the Myrkridia hunted at their leisure and they terrorized mankind for near a thousand year. So yes, there is that element to it. The 'savage' races view the Dark ages as ages of plenty and prosperity but Finn has little interest in or love of the Myrkridia. All they care for is blood, battle and the hunt. Their art, their 'civilization' is, to him, worthless and so he has no problem with the fact that they were hunted to extinction. In fact, he has his huntsmen wipe out any Myrkridia that wander into his lands.

Nevill said:
What is the point of the existence of the Leveller, what is it that he is trying to do? For how long the Levellers exist, for how long does the cycle exist? I know that almost no people in the setting can answer these questions, but we have stumbled on someone who predates the known history of humanity.

Finn has no idea why the Leveler exists.

The first Leveler appeared about 4000 years ago so it is a reasonably new phenomenon.

About the only thing Finn can tell you is that the Leveler tends to come from the unknown lands to the east. Connacht once told him that even those that have raised their armies in the shadow of the Cloudspine originally slipped into the known lands from the unknown east. If there is an answer to the question of what the Leveler is then it is to be found there. The last time he spoke to Connacht, the Mage Emperor was preparing to travel east in the twilight of his years. To discover the source of the Leveler's influence and to destroy it.

Evidently Connacht failed and he was the third most powerful archmage to ever live. It is not a path that Finn would encourage anyone to walk.

Nevill said:
Is the Watcher a servant of the Dark? What makes him so? Are his necromancers? Are ghols or spider demons? What makes them different?

Finn would say 'an ally' rather than a servant. The Watcher has served numerous Levelers, he served Moagim (both the first and second individual claiming the name) and he served Balor and if another Leveler someday threatens the world Finn does not doubt that the Watcher will stand with that person.

That being said, the Watcher has never struck Finn as an enthusiastic follower of the Dark. It seems to be more of an alliance of convenience than anything else. The Watcher hates, well, everyone to some extent or another and wiping out most of the world's population seems to be his greatest ambition. The Leveler is just another opportunity to him from as far as Finn can tell.

Some of his necromancers perhaps. All necromancers owe their power to the Watcher, same with the shades, so a large majority tend to follow his lead in things. It is possible that many of them serve the Dark because they see the Watcher do it. They lack his strength though so they can not achieve the same degree of independence from it.

Do all necromancers follow the Dark? No, probably not. Necromancy is just a form of magic at the end of the day (a vile form, made so by the Watcher, but a form all the same) so there are any number of reasons why one would pursue it.

Ghôls are free willed mortals. They are the same as dwarves or humans in that regard. Some chose and choose to follow the Dark out of conviction, others out of the opportunities it brings, some refuse to serve, they run the whole gambit really. But the ones that humans see the most often are those that follow the Leveler's armies westward so the ghôls do have a certain stigma attached to them. In Finn's experience they are not necessarily any more 'evil' than dwarves, humans, fir'Bolg or mauls in and of themselves.

The spider demons do not serve the Dark. He supposes they could but he has yet to run into one that does, of course he rarely gets a chance to talk to them since most attack him on sight. The Spider Goddess wants the material world for her own and draws power from those that worship her. This puts her fundamentally at odds with the Leveler and Finn doubts that she would ever become its ally.

Those that serve the Leveler are part of the Dark, those that don't, aren't. Simple distinction. It does not make those that aren't any less dangerous mind you.

Nevill said:
Supposed the triumph of the Dark is the end goal of the Leveller (seeing how he is its 'Champion'), can the Watcher's campaign against the Kingdom really be said to pursue the same goals as Balor's? Or is he, like any archmage or any of the Dark Gods, merely pushes his own agenda?

Well, the end result would be similar from a functional standpoint. Finn laughs, he says it matter little whether the axe that takes your head off belongs to a Leveler raised thrall or a Watcher raised thrall, you are still dead.

But, no, aside for the broad ways in which the two were working toward similar ends he does not believe the Watcher is currently working for the Leveler. He also does not believe that the Watcher has any interest in becoming the LEveler or in bringing about whatever future the Leveler was aiming for. He thinks the Watcher simply pursuing his own goals, whatever they are.

Nevill said:
Is Faceless a servant of the Dark? Well, he is Mazzarin's enemy, and the mage proclaims himslelf to be pro-Light, but does it make his enemies automatically aligned with the Dark?

Finn smirks, he says that Faceless predates the Dark and has no particular loyalty to it. He probably served because he was made to or maybe because he was bored. It is hard to say when talking about the world's oldest archmage. The Faceless Man has no particular love for anyone but himself, at least that is what Finn could discern from the few conversations they have had over the millenia, but he does seem to take a certain liking to a handful of humans every generation (and they always are humans for some reason, never dwarves, or mauls, or fir'Bolg or ghôls, just humans).

It is entirely possible that everything Faceless does at this point is done simply to amuse himself while he drifts through the centuries.

Finn asks you not to say anything about this around Mazzarin. The Great Mage is convinced that Faceless is a staunch follower of the Dark, possibly because the two have been enemies for so long and Mazzarin's identity is so closely bound to the concept of the Light.

Nevill said:
It gets even murkier if we go further. Is the Deceiver of the Dark? He was its ally during the first war, and an ally of the Light in the second. Is 'the Dark' just a banner that one can raise and lower at will? You fight for it one day, and you fight against it the next.

Myrdred is a tricky one. Finn does not believe that most of the Fallen Lords served willingly. They were driven into the war through Balor's control of them so Finn would not say that the Deceiver is a follower of the Dark. That being said, he is sure that many people would. The Deceiver got a lot of people killed during the Great War and his name is still associated with that destruction. Far fewer people know that Myrdred was instrumental in the defeat of Soulblighter.

Is the Dark simply a banner?

For some, yes. For others, no. Not everyone that follows the Leveler has a choice but some certainly do.

The Dark is both a philosophical concept and a political label and each must be treated differently for they are different. The average person, though, is not even aware of much more than the muddled association of Dark with 'bad guys'.

Nevill said:
Why would then the Herons not make a distinction between a former necromancer and a current one?

The necromancers provided Balor with the army he needed to kill their Emperor and destroy the Cath Bruig. From what he understands it is a personal grudge between them and those that practice that art.

Nevill said:
Didn't they fight side by side with the Fallen Lord?

Yes, from what he has heard they did.

Nevill said:
Did it not shake their beliefs just a little?

Finn has no way of knowing that.

Nevill said:
Do they think that their Emprah allied himself with the follower of the Dark (since there are no 'former' race traitors)?

Finn has no way of knowing that.

Nevill said:
Or did they not concern themselves with philosophy and went along with the line of thinking that 'if it is fighting for us and for our Emperor, then it is on the side of Light'? But if a Shade or a Fallen Lord can be brought to Light, why a necromancer can't?

Presumably it has something to do with the fact that Myrdred was not a necromancer. But that is speculation on Finn's part, he has no knowledge of motivates the Heron Guards.

Nevill said:
If it is just a banner, does it have a meaning outside of the humanoid races who get shafted once another Age of Darkness comes?

If you are asking, 'Does a thing have meaning for those it does not effect in any way?' Then Finn would say, probably not. ;)

Nevill said:
The Trow are not servants of the Dark and yet they prospered in the Axe Age. Clearly they could not care less. Were there even ages of Light and Darkness before humans and Wyrd's races came into being - for, say, Callieach or some other species?

No, before 4000 years ago there were no cycles. The Trow did serve a similar function though. Every time Finn glimpsed a society that was beginning to build itself up and expand the Trow came along and wiped it out. They did not lose a single war until they fought Connacht.

Nevill said:
Similarly, what determines if one is considered 'of the Light'?

Finn would say that those that fight against a Leveler and his agents would be considered 'of the Light'.

Nevill said:
Working against the Dark to protect Wyrd's races?

That would likely be part of it.

Nevill said:
If we are to see nationalistic (racist? :lol:) movements where one would act to defend their race/nation at the cost of throwing another under the bus, would they still be considered 'of the Light'?

Well, Connacht threw the oghres under the bus so that he could defeat the Trow and he is considered a champion of the Light. So at the very least it won't harm your chances as long as your fight the Leveler and win.

Nevill said:
Are they of the Light, or are they like Trow or many others indifferent to it?

They helped to fight Balor in their own small way. Finn does not know (and does not care) if that makes him 'of the Light' or not. He has no particular interest in where people think he stands.

Nevill said:
Can we ask them if they noticed the changes of the Ages? And if so (and I assume because of their proximity to humans and dwarves they might have), was there the Cycle and were there Levellers before what we call the Axe Age?

Oh, they definitely noticed. It is hard not to notice the near extinction of your neighbors.

No, there were no cycles before the end of your 'Axe Age'. Before that there was simply the Trow Empire and it was more than enough.


Current Tally:

Let me know if I missed anything:

Baltika9 1D>C 2B 3C 4Aiv 5B? 6X
Kz3r0 1D 2B 3B 4Aii 5X 6X
Nevill 1C 2C 3C 4Aiv 5B 6X
Karwelas 1C 2C 3C 4Aiv 5B 6C
Grimgravy 1B>C 2B 3C 4Aiv 5A? 6B?
Azira 1Fi>Fx 2B 3C 4Aiii>Ai 5X 6X
Absinthe 1Fvii>Fi 2C 3X 4X 5A 6X

1.
B - 1 (0)
C - 2 (4)
D - 2 (1)
F - 2

2.
B - 4
C - 3

3.
B - 1
C - 5

4.
Aii - 1
Aiii - 1
Aiv - 4

5. Shapeshifting, A - yes, B - no
A - 1 (2?)
B - 2 (3?)

6. Elephants, B - leave it, C - warn the handlers not to mistreat the elephants, but otherwise leave it until better times
B - 0 (1?)
C - 1
 
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