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Myth: A New Age CYOA

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
I'm going to hold off voting until Nevil's questions are answered. For once he and I are of a like mind here. I don't trust these others with Nine.

If Nine does reclaim her true self, providing she's not Joffrey Baratheon levels of insane, I'd love us to be her apprentice in earnest. I don't really mind if we go dark wizard queen on this world.

Also, previous mentions of Mazzarin for reference...

Mazzarin...

The archmage. Anyone that has ever seriously hoped or dreamed of learning magic aspires to follow in his footsteps. The greatest mage of the Wind Age, of any age in fact. He founded the Avatara before the reign of Connacht. It was his artefacts that allowed Connacht to defeat many of his foes as well. Mazzarin fell to the Watcher in the closing decades of the Wind Age and it was the greatest victory of the Dark in that age. Part of you wonders though. A mage as skilled as Mazzarin would not fall easily and he was a true master. Perhaps the historical record is not quite accurate after all...

A character with high Int and low Wis would likely become powerful quickly but also burn out quickly. Wis helps the mage survive the crippling power that they seek to use, Mazzarin for example probably had/has a 10 Wis, probably the Deceiver as well, like you said, and I would say his old enemy the Watcher also had a high Wis, Alric has a very high Wis but I am not sure I would give him a ten, (maybe if he makes it a few more centuries).
If we somehow accidentally get into a mindmeld with him, I can see it being potentially very advantageous if we're able to recover enough of our sanity to make use of his knowledge. I do find it strange though that "the greatest mage that has ever lived" is unable to maintain his form against age.

I'm all for grabbing as much power as we can possibly worm our fingers around... The question here is what is the most advantageous. C has seemingly the greatest danger, but also the greatest reward. D lets us relegate the guy a bit, but I don't really see what we could do against a 10 wisdom archmage should he decide he doesn't like our style. It just seems like we'd be unable to withstand the force of this guy should we want to stop him from doing something we don't like. Therefore taking the additional risk of five minds crowded into one seems foolhardy, since anything he'd do in B, he'd do in D.

Of course, we could just leave. The guy, whilst powerful, seems fairly limited in the scope of what he can do against us. All we need is a bit of distance and we're fairly safe from him.

Tentatively voting C>A
 
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Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Mindwalking with archmages aint no stroll through some posies. Derryth and Thais arent qualified to do it alone. Corpse man cant be trusted to do it alone. Seems like all or nothing. We have been lucky with powers greater than ourselves. How long will that last?

A> D
 

Fangshi

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Nevill said:
What kind of dangers are we talking about?

Here is what Derryth is most concerned about:

Well first you have whatever traps and defenders Nine might have conjured up in the century or so she has been alive. She might be able to shield you from some of it, some of the time, but she is an insane amnesiac so don't expect too much help. She can not even reliably tell you what to expect, except that it will be dangerous.

After that you have the danger represented by Mazzarin (if he really is Mazzarin) and his 'apprentice'. If they go alone you are trusting them not to damage or alter anything. If you go with them you will have to be careful that they don't betray you.

For that matter, what would a trip to someone else's mind look/feel like?

Well your consciousness will leave your body and create a bridge to enter her mind. Once you are in, your mind will attempt to map and render into sensory data the thoughts and general landscape of Nine's consciousness.

Beyond that everything else is conjecture at the moment.

The last time you probed her mind you were confronted by an endless and shifting city of emerald glass and golden gossamer, the streets enclosed to limit the available light. If you go through with this you will have to enter into the city so to speak and find its heart.

While in her mind you can probably expect some help from Nine's conscious mind given that she wants you to succeed. Her subconscious will try and eject or kill you though. Think of it as similar to an immune response. She won't be able to stop that. You will largely be limited to what you can do in reality given that it is not your mind, through with a strong enough act of will you can probably 'cheat' a little.

Every action you hope to take will be an expression of your will, made possible be your willpower. It will probably be very tiring and if Nine's conscious mind ever turns on you for some reason you will need to get out as quickly as possible.

Should you fail the least painful fate you can hope to experience will be death. If you are killed in there one of two things can happen. Your will can exert itself to remind your mind that it is not real, in which case you will be dumped back into your body (or a body at least.) Alternatively your mind will come to believe that you are dead and your body will follow suit and die.

Lyssa does have an additional caution for you as well:

She believes that should your will begin to fail you in there you may also begin to lose yourself. Parts of Derryth's memories and personality may accidentally get overwritten by Nine's or someone else's. (Derryth speculates that such a thing could even happen on purpose if there is a traitor present.) This is particularly dangerous should everyone go in. With that many minds present if something goes wrong you will simply cease to be as an individual mind. She believes the result would be some sort of amalgam of the memories, experiences, attitudes and abilities of all present. This new 'hivemind' as she terms it would be very dangerous and quite insane. She believes the process would be permanent and would wash away the existence of each individual forever. It is one of the many reasons Lyssa does not really want to do this...

Smashing Axe said:
I do find it strange though that "the greatest mage that has ever lived" is unable to maintain his form against age.

It is not just age that turned him into that, there are subtle magics at work there. Currently it requires about 80% of his abilities just to keep himself alive.

It also hurts a great deal and has perhaps made him a bit desperate.
 
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Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
Mindwalking with archmages aint no stroll through some posies. Derryth and Thais arent qualified to do it alone. Corpse man cant be trusted to do it alone. Seems like all or nothing. We have been lucky with powers greater than ourselves. How long will that last?

A> D

Well, we're very strong mentally, and all of our powers and abilities are geared towards mentalism. I wouldn't say that we're exactly unqualified to do this. I think the real point of concern is what will Nine do once she's recovered all her knowledge, and what will this Mazzarin do with his new vitality.
 

Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
We have experience with fooling or damaging minds. We have none with healing minds or restoring memories. There are reasons surgeons practice on cadavers first.
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
No, we have experience with manipulating, sending and receiving information from minds. This isn't brain surgery, it's more like the movie Fantastic Voyage, except with a mental landscape instead of a physical one. It's about exercising our will, and interpreting and sorting data into an understandable psychological pattern.
 

Nevill

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Alright. First, about the dangers involved. Everything we have faced so far and are about to face in the future: necromancers, mercenaries, Eberhardt goons, Black Arrows, even the Brannons family - is child's play compared to the implied resurrection of the Watcher. This is one dude who does not make 'enslaving nations with necromancy' sound silly. The second greatest archmage of all times, irredeemably evil, and apparently a true immortal as well, is no joke. I don't know if this guy we stumbled upon is truly Mazzarin or not, but he appears to be working against the Watcher, and therefore I want to enlist his help.

Now, at first I thought: 'Wow, the greatest hero of all time is in need of our help! Are you kidding me? Count me in!', but then I quickly become less and less enthusiastic the more I thought about it. This is the world that is based on the idea of the cycles of Light and Darkness. Let us not forget that the mistrust among the mages is well founded:
This paranoia is linked into the cycles of Light and Dark that have characterized almost all of human history. The short version is that the heroes of each age are reincarnated as the villains of the next and that those that fought to save humanity would ultimately damn it. Now this does not really impact the lives of the weak (aside from killing a lot of them), but the strong are all incredibly afraid of themselves and of each other. Mages seek knowledge and power either for their own sake or to protect themselves from others, the motivation matters less than the outcome, which is that eventually they almost all fall. As a result mages tend not to share with each other since today's ally could be tomorrows enemy, and by keeping information dispersed, it weakens the potential power of the next Dark Lord.
The Soulblighter was Damas once, as the Deceiver was Myrdred, or as any of the other Fallen Lords were heroes in times long forgotten. None of them came back right. I suppose a person of ungodly willpower and ability might have resisted the forces at work here, but I would prefer to err on the side of caution. There is no reason to assume that 'Mazzarin' - even if he is really the one - is the same person he once was. He appears to bear the grudge against the Watcher, but all the Fallen keep some aspects of their personalities. The Deceiver hated the rest of the Fallen with a passion, and Balor's hatred of the Myrkridia was his undoing.

Besides, if he is truly the hero of the Light that survived for a thousand (?) years, what is he doing in a no-name cave tended by a witch (is she the same one from Muirthemne?) asking two low-profile mages for help when the dwarves have rebuilt Myrgard and King Albrecht would be honoured to provide him any assistance he would require, complete with full access to the resourses of their Magic Academy. Something is not right here. Though we can trust in his hatred of the Watcher, I wonder if in doing his bidding we are not unleashing something worse on the world.

Still, even though he may be a liar, by the look of the methods he employs, he does not appear that bad.

And as far as Nine is concerned, I don't trust her either. She has a rather harmless, if overly playful, personality, but we don't know how she will turn out if we lift the inhibitors placed on her, or if her memories return. One of the reasons we are carrying her at all times is that she can not be trusted not to play with people's minds. I would like to delve inside hers before making a decision if this knowledge should be made available to her, and if the rune needs to be removed. It is unlikely that we'll get better conditions to do that (the techniques used are implied to be known only to Lyssa and her master), and the things we find down there could shed a lot of light on our current situation.

I'll go with C. Too much is at stake here to just turn and leave, and no way in hell I am compromising my own mind to fuse with anyone's, or letting 'Mazzarin' inside the mind of our tutor whom he considers enemy, or letting him set her free unconditionally, for that matter.
 
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Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
Yeah, C and A are the only options that let us retain our own agency as far as these lofty matters are concerned. D is risky as hell and I very much doubt our ability to deal with any betrayal on "Mazzarin's" part in the dreamscape.
 

Jester

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E) Mazzarin linked with Derryth and Thais.

If guy got 20% power Derr should be able to suppress him with 8 wis in my opinion. Might be even easier to maintain the link with 'harder' mind. If he will try something funny. Command line Kick Mazzarin.
 

Nevill

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Command line Kick Mazzarin.
I'd hazard a guess that everyone 'ejects' out of this reality on their own. The mind isn't yours, you can't will someone out of it. Fangshi?

That, and this bit:
She believes that should your will begin to fail you in there you may also begin to lose yourself. Parts of Derryth's memories and personality may accidentally get overwritten by Nine's or someone else's. (Derryth speculates that such a thing could even happen on purpose if there is a traitor present.) This is particularly dangerous should everyone go in.
suggests to me that we should either go alone with Thais, or not go in at all.

If 'Mazzarin' melds us with Thais to have a free run in Nine's mind, it's gg.
 
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Fangshi

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Nevill said:
The mind isn't yours, you can't will someone out of it. Fangshi?

That's right. Nine could try since it is her mind but you can not just kick someone out. You could try attacking any potential traitor though. If you 'kill' them it would dump them out into the real world or destroy them.


Current Tally:

Azira D>C
Kz3r0 F
asxetos D
Smashing Axe C>A>B
Grimgravy A>D
Nevill C
Jester E
Baltika9 D
GreyViper F


A) 1 votes
B)
C) 2 votes
D) 3 votes
E) 1 vote
F) 2 votes
 
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Nevill

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That's right. Nine could try since it is her mind but you can not just kick someone out. You could try attacking any potential traitor though. If you 'kill' them it would dump them out into the real world or destroy them.
Dumping them out in the real world while we lie unconscious is by no means sane. What is there to stop them from killing us and trying to force their way in Nine's head later? The Arrows? :lol: It is better to not give them such a choice in the first place.

Also, can our personalities be melded/overridden from the outside while we are inside?
 

Fangshi

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Nevill said:
Also, can personalities be melded/overridden from the outside while we are inside?

No, from what you can tell it is less an external force that pushes your minds together than an internal force that pulls them together, seeking balance.

This is all theory mind you but she thinks the natural state of the mind is as a single entity not multiple separate entities. It will take an act of will to keep your mind and those of your colleagues separate and 'unmixed'. If something goes wrong (for example you are 'killed' but resist the illusion of death) you mind will attempt to eject itself to preserve its integrity. It will attempt to jump to any available empty body though it will prefer its 'natural' home.

A situation could arise however where you can not escape, where you become entangled with another mind or minds. Given no choice they will instinctively seek a balance of sorts. Your mind will fuse with those you are entangled with and Derryth will simply cease to be... for her it is a very unsettling prospect as one might imagine.
 

Nevill

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A situation could arise however where you can not escape, where you become entangled with another mind or minds. Given no choice they will instinctively seek a balance of sorts. Your mind will fuse with those you are entangled with and Derryth will simply cease to be... for her it is a very unsettling prospect as one might imagine.
Enter Derrythais, the magic-slinging courtesan with an attitude. :lol:

I wonder how the bracers tie into all of this. They try to warn the wielders about dangers and they operate on a mental level. It would be interesting to see if they react to the dangers that can be found inside someone else's mind, or to the dangers of losing one's mind.
 

Fangshi

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Nevill said:
Enter Derrythais, the magic-slinging courtesan with an attitude.

That or you wind up as 'Blood Brothers' and have to roll up a new character. No telling what sort of damage that could do really. :lol:

I wonder how the bracers tie into all of this.

Shame you did not bother to figure out how they work. Oh well... ;)
 

Baltika9

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Yeah, D looks like we're straight up asking for trouble. Hence I vote C, with the addendum that we have the Black Arrows watching the apprentice and this 'Mazzarin' in a separate room far away from us.
 
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Fangshi

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Baltika9 said:
with the addendum that we have the Black Arrows watching the apprentice and this 'Mazzarin' in a separate room far away from us.

Sure that is doable. They can guard the two of them down in the cell while you conduct the ritual either back in the meadow or over in the large chamber in the caves if that makes you feel better.

But on the other hand, it would be very interesting if Derryth, Thais and Mazzarin became one person inside of Nine's mind. Might flop just for that.

It would be an interesting twist but it would also be essentially a non standard game over (just so people understand what it would mean mechanically). Derryth would be dead and the creature that results would probably be quite insane and inhuman in most regards.

You would wind up like Nine only even more fragmented. In her case she does not remember enough while in this case you would remember too much, all at once and in the wrong order.

It would be the psychological equivalent of this:

The-Thing-Dog.png
 
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Baltika9

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A situation could arise however where you can not escape, where you become entangled with another mind or minds. Given no choice they will instinctively seek a balance of sorts. Your mind will fuse with those you are entangled with and Derryth will simply cease to be... for her it is a very unsettling prospect as one might imagine.
But on the other hand, it would be very interesting if Derryth, Thais and Mazzarin became one person inside of Nine's mind. Might flop just for that.
 

Kz3r0

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F)
Only Derryth will enter Nine's mind using Thais as an anchor while the Black Arrows will keep an eye on our new 'friends'.

Actually I think of this as a chain-mind linking, Thais wiil enter our mind making sure that everything remains in place while we enter nine's mind.

Besides, Fangshi , how much time we have to prepare for doing this?
I would like to make some practice beetween us and Thais, making a sort of Vulcanian mind fusion before attempting this.

Yay, lesbian sex at last.
 
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Fangshi

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Kz3r0 said:
Actually I think of this as a chain-mind linking, Thais wiil enter our mind making sure that everything remains in place while we enter nine's mind.

Sure if you want she can keep an eye on your mind and help guide you back should something happen. It will be the magical equivalent of a lifeline, if something happens she will reel you back in. She can do that from her mind though so she does not actually have to enter your mind she will just be monitoring the bridge between your mind and Nine's.

Besides, Fangshi , how much time we have to prepare for doing this?

You could probably afford to put it off for a day or so. After that events may begin to play out elsewhere that you might like to influence.

I would like to make some practice beetween us and Thais, making a sort of Vulcanian mind fusion before attempting this.

Sure, if you want to practice entering each others minds for a day or so you can. It might help a little but each mind is different and Nine's will be far more unusual and dangerous than Thaïs'.
 

Baltika9

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Kz3r0, my only problem here is that Derryth will be going alone into the very dangerous mind of Nine without too good of an idea on how to work with all the shit in there. I would gladly vote for your option if we had Mazzarin along for the ride with Thais being our "lifeline."
 

Kz3r0

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Kz3r0, my only problem here is that Derryth will be going alone into the very dangerous mind of Nine without too good of an idea on how to work with all the shit in there. I would gladly vote for your option if we had Mazzarin along for the ride with Thais being our "lifeline."
I don't trust him, and I am sure that in a battle of minds we wil lose to him, besides, Nine will help us in there, we won't be completely alone.
 

GreyViper

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Modified F, its all nice and interesting, but before that we would exact a prices for bringing the head and letting him enter Nines mind. Recall all we had to do was come here meet who ever requested nine and ofc bring Nine. Nowhere did it say that we would do it for free. So a ultimatum the prices is anything we want, at our own time of choosing.
If he wont agree, then convince Nine that it would be nice to have ace up our sleeve and it would benefit her as well.
 

Fangshi

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Sure, he will definitely owe you if you help him. So he readily agrees to your condition, one favour or reward of equal value to be collected at the time of your choosing provided you succeed in helping him.

Of course you are ultimately trusting him to keep his word. If he is who he says he is then you will not have the power to force him to do anything he does not want to do once he has recovered.
 

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