Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Neverwinter Nights was originally planned to be "approximately 30 2-hour missions"

Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Found this tucked away in the 2003 post mortem.
Our original plan for the NWN story called for approximately 30 2-hour missions that people could play together, enjoy a wonderful experience, and exit from the game. However, market research led us to believe that a vast single-player story was important to end-users; they did not want to see Mechwarrior-style missions where the party would be briefed, charge off like raging lunatics, slay and loot the villains, and then return to the tavern for a nice cup of mead. Thus, the story was reorganized into four chapters, which meant six times as many creatures and objects to deal with in the same amount of RAM!
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131299/neverwinter_nights_clientserver_.php?page=2

Thoughts? Would this have been an improvement? Did anyone actually like the NWN OC?
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Did anyone actually like the NWN OC?
no
Would this have been an improvement?
not really

nwn ended up being all about permanent worlds and dialogue driven sp stories that circumvent the whole shittiness of the engine

its a fundamentally bad game that is better either with friends (proto mmo) or by ignoring all of its mechanics outside of dialogue checks
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,269
Location
Massachusettes
Well, I liked the original OC for NWN.... at the time I played it in mid-2005 or so . Of course, I was probably blinded and fascinated like some glowsticktard at a rave with all that color and bursts of acid-flash florescent green and orange and purple and yellow. But I liked that it was an RPG-lite and was easy, which is what i needed at the time to get back into RPGs after a long hiatus. I also enjoyed the ambient sounds. These days of course I wouldn't look twice at that old NWN OC bag at the bar, especially post-Pathfinder Kingmaker. But back then I had my beer googles on, and AD&D in a glowing, bursting 3D engine had me drunk and hypnotized . But now it's the Morning After...
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
NWN shipped with a few mini-modules, all garbage. The first expansion was junk, the second started as junk and became all right with a few annoying parts, Witch's Wake had potential, Kingmaker (not Pathfinder) was pretty decent, Pirates of the Sword Coast was junk. It would have been a mixed bag of more bad than good based on that record. Still preferable to what they shipped with since at least there'd be a few worth playing.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,269
Location
Massachusettes
The first expansion (Shadows of Uredintide) had some nice stuff in it, including a few challenging encounters that user-made modules I've played rarely get. I remember there was this weird tall tall neon pinkish building that you couldn't tilt your head up to see the top of of, even with skyboxes enabled. It seemed immense and was a surprising Wow moment for me even though by that time I had already played many modules and should have been jaded. Don't listen to the naysayers. It's not bad at all.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,048
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
nwn ended up being all about permanent worlds and dialogue driven sp stories that circumvent the whole shittiness of the engine

its a fundamentally bad game that is better either with friends (proto mmo) or by ignoring all of its mechanics outside of dialogue checks

This. It has some of the worst design decisions in RPG history, with lots of mechanics designed to purposely waste your time and be as un-fun and tedious as possible.

The most enjoyment out of NWN comes through multiplayer persistent worlds with a DM, or modules that focus on non-combat gameplay with little to no trap disarming and lockpicking (due to the excruciatingly long time those things take).
 

Poseidon00

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2,039
I liked the NWN OC, but it was my first experience with DnD and that colored it a lot since i've been a fan of the ruleset ever since. As a kid used to console RPG's like Final Fantasy the ability to lower Charisma or Intelligence and be treated as an ugly freak or a short bus rider blew me away.

NWN modules had some quality stuff in them though.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,269
Location
Massachusettes
The most enjoyment out of NWN comes through multiplayer persistent worlds with a DM, or modules that focus on non-combat gameplay with little to no trap disarming and lockpicking (due to the excruciatingly long time those things take).

Though I enjoyed some moments in NWN PWs, some of those NWN DMs though, man... clearly very socially retarded.

You're saying no one should play
Honor Among Thieves?! Or any of the other great NWN modules for rogues?! *gasp* Btw, a mod can take care of that lockpicking wait timer if people can't wait the 3 seconds it took to pick a lock or set/disarm a trap. Personally, I loved that little red status countdown and the few seconds of suspense it afforded on whether you'd hear that nice little click that meant success, or that great big BOOM! that meant Respawn.
 
Last edited:

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,756
214631-neverwinter-nights-dos-front-cover.jpg
214632-neverwinter-nights-dos-back-cover.jpg


It's a disgrace for declinist RPGs to usurp the names of their worthier predecessors. :rpgcodex:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
NWN is great, shut up. Not the OC, though, even my 10ish-year-old self could understand that. The first idea was garbage, I'm glad they changed their minds.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
too bad they abandoned this design. Even if the "missions" in question wouldn't have been much better than any given quest in the OC (which is questionable), small doses would have made the whole thing better.

Thinking about it... how many "mission based" RPG's are there? Where you always strike out from some hub, do shit, woops you're back, you get a fixed amount of restocking options and then you're sent out again?
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
Thinking about it... how many "mission based" RPG's are there? Where you always strike out from some hub, do shit, woops you're back, you get a fixed amount of restocking options and then you're sent out again?

None. This restrictive shit disqualifies from the genre automatically :obviously:
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
Thinking about it... how many "mission based" RPG's are there? Where you always strike out from some hub, do shit, woops you're back, you get a fixed amount of restocking options and then you're sent out again?

None. This restrictive shit disqualifies from the genre automatically :obviously:

maybe it would. Then again...

You can use your skills and abilities on a mission. Let's say you have a team of 4 and you can usually take 2 on a mission. No shared XP. 4 different archetypes. You either have a high level thief and approach missions with those skills, or a mid level thief who comes in handy sometimes. Or you flatout forget about those skills. Same for the other classes.

Even if C&C is limited to each quest and there's a linear sequence of quests, I wouldn't outright discount it as an RPG. In fact it could be a more palatable RPG than linear story heavy (J)RPG's.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,269
Location
Massachusettes
I'm surprised people still get their nut off on BG2. I mean, wasn't that the RPG that introduced spamming/exploiting rest to win any battle? Booooo. Maybe BG2 should be considered the beginning of the end and not the fucking pinnacle of RPGs. At least NWN had tons of modules that had carefully thought-out resource management and rest restrictions that actually made them challenging. I don't recall a single battle in BG2 that was even close to difficult except the last one.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
BG1 was the beginning of the decline, considered sub-RPG even by contemporary-to-it reviews and RPgamers.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
I mean, wasn't that the RPG that introduced spamming/exploiting rest to win any battle?

Nigga please, we've been doing that in every game that didn't drop a random encounter atop your party every half a second, from goldbox to might & magic :obviously:

At least NWN had tons of modules that had carefully thought-out resource management and rest restrictions that actually made them challenging.

When a game is an abominable mess, muh challenge only makes it worse. An ability to breeze through it and forget about it forever can be its only saving grace.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Rest-spam whiners can suck a dick.
Like there has been some mindblowing improvement in games without it.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,269
Location
Massachusettes
Nigga please, we've been doing that in every game that didn't drop a random encounter atop your party every half a second, from goldbox to might & magic :obviously:

Bullshit, chief. I distinctly remember playing the original SSI Pool of Radiance the year it came out and discovering one small room in the first slum where you could rest. The sense of relief and accomplishment reaching that room was immense. It most definitely DIDN'T allow spam-resting. You can probably thank your precious BG series to introduce that mechanic.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
Bullshit, chief. I distinctly remember playing the original SSI Pool of Radiance the year it came out and discovering one small room in the first slum where you could rest. The sense of relief and accomplishment reaching that room was immense. It most definitely DIDN'T allow spam-resting.

When you are first level or cannot into proper party, maybe. Otherwise, 9 times out of 10 you restore your hp and spells without issue, and on the tenth time, it's some entry-tier junk your party can handle on autocombat and without wasting spells.
 

Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,269
Location
Massachusettes
Rest-spam whiners can suck a dick.
Like there has been some mindblowing improvement in games without it.

Some of use more than others need all the help they can get playing some of these RPGs, cuz they're, like, so hard sometimes, darn it. So... you're excused. Hey, I'm not one to tell you how to enjoy yourself. If you need to spam rest to win, then have at it. I'm not judging you. Okay, I am, but enjoy anyway, bro. It's all good :)
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom