New AP Gameplay Footage

[GMonkey]

Wouldn't nostalgia be the reason for the bashing, then?

Anyway, Skyway, there's no way you ever liked anything in even the smallest way, so nostalgia ain't gonna fly. Away. I may be tipsay.

 

[Longshanks]

We've been through this before in comparison to Bloodlines. It's the lack of roleplaying in Deus Ex, weakness of character creation and stats that make it a shooter, not an actionRPG. AP is being marketed as an actionRPG, and seems to have more of an RPG focus than Deus Ex. We'll soon see for ourselves.

Deus Ex was also marketed as an action RPG. Again, what makes you think that AP will be more of an RPG? From what I've seen of the game, and heard from the devs, stats probably won't have much more influence than they did in Deus Ex. There's certainly nothing like Bloodline's clans.

It may have been. If so, I missed that bit of advertising. Always saw it as a shooter.
Anyway, how it plays is the important thing, not how it's advertised. I have played Deus Ex - it's a shooter. I have not played or have very detailed info on AP, which is why I refer to it being advertised as an actionRPG, adding that we'll need to wait and see how strong the RPG aspect is.

 

[MetalCraze]

"We find it frustrating in a lot of RPGs - and in games in general - is when you feel like you missed some bit of content or did something wrong - Parker declares. The team is avoiding the roadblock by making sure players are rewarded for any course of action, not just cleaving tightly to one paradigm. Anyone who got left out by being neutral with the Force (or juggling both Paragon and Renegade in Mass Effect) will definitely appreciate this inclusive approach to decision-making".

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310 ... 0copia.jpg

Considering that Mass Effect was so linear that your choices didn't make any real difference at all - that must mean that Obsidian reached a new low.
The game is being marketed to the retards - I don't understand Codexers who think it will be like DX or even VtmB.
As well as I don't understand Obsidian's hype of C&C - what C&C if you can't let players miss a bit of content or do something wrong?

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

So it's similar to the way you'd be rewarded for suppressing or devouring spirits in MotB?

Sounds good to me.

 

[Dionysus]

It may have been. If so, I missed that bit of advertising.

Yeah, you must have. It was on the CD case and in any interview in which someone asked Spector about the type of game he was making. It was advertised as an action RPG. But that was probably back when you weren't an acronym Nazi, so you might have missed it.

Anyway, how it plays is the important thing, not how it's advertised. I have played Deus Ex - it's a shooter. I have not played or have very detailed info on AP, which is why I refer to it being advertised as an actionRPG, adding that we'll need to wait and see how strong the RPG aspect is.

I see. So, AP will be an action RPG because of "wait and see." Those certainly are two impressive RPing elements. Soon "wait and see" will replace "choices and consequences."

Alpha Protocol: For Every Wait, a See

You don't know shit about Deus Ex and you don't know shit about Alpha Protocol. You are just spouting off.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with Vaarna Aarne, Andyman Messiah, fastpunk, and Hummelgumpf?

Why do you guys live under this ridiculous delusion that Obsidian can do no wrong? Why do you have this absurd double standard that any dumbing down is okay when Obsidian does it?

Look at it for yourself. A lockpicking minigame. And you justify it by saying, "Preposterous, an action RPG that realizes it should do things like an action game." Are you out of your minds? I thought it was a bit wierd when you guys unanimously praise KotOR 2 and NWN2, but this?

I mean, everybody is entitled to their opinions, but when you say things like this, and then dismiss the opinions of people like skyway as mindless nerdraging, maybe you need to put things into perspective.

Hint: mini-games weren't the root of all evil in Oblivion, they were just the icing on a cake. Ultimately, two things will make or break Alpha Protocol: level design and C&C. I have enough trust in Obsidian to be confident in their ability to deliver on both accounts. If Obsidian fails at both, I'll be the first person to admit that AP is a bad game.

Combat looks p. sweet, BTW.

 

[Jaesun]

Hint: mini-games weren't the root of all evil in Oblivion, they were just the icing on a cake. Ultimately, two things will make or break Alpha Protocol: level design and C&C. I have enough trust in Obsidian to be confident in their ability to deliver on both accounts. If Obsidian fails at both, I'll be the first person to admit that AP is a bad game.

Combat looks p. sweet, BTW.

This.

Also a disturbance in the Force that tells me that Dicksmoker is not *really* a Dick Smoker. I guess it's just you and me Jasede. *SNAP*

 

[bhlaab]

Balance is another problem. A bunch of ex-Black Isle and Troika staff, along with talented others made some of the most easily broken RPGs not stamped with a Japanese company logo or Bethesda's. What chance do they have in an action game, where even veteran developers make balance issues that can have severe repercussions?

Well to be fair, those severe repercussions only happen in multiplayer, which I'm not sure AP even has.

In a SP only action game, fuck it have a BFG twelve-thousand that shoots blackholes and has unlimited ammo

 

[MetalCraze]

So it's similar to the way you'd be rewarded for suppressing or devouring spirits in MotB?

Sounds good to me.

You were rewarded for suppressing or devouring spirits in MotB? What?
You were rewarded only with more time to live and you were also punished for many many choices.

Yes just like that thing Obsidian said about AP with "We want only to reward the player and don't let him miss even a bit of content!"
My god that's totally like MotB with its Okku/One Of Many and different outcomes right down to different sets of quests including the whole goddamn 3rd chapter.

Obsidian fanbois are so delusional.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Anyway, Skyway, there's no way you ever liked anything in even the smallest way, so nostalgia ain't gonna fly. Away. I may be tipsay.

Actually, skyway DOES like things, you just don't hear him talking about it that much. He likes the classics (PST and Fallouts) and Troika's stuff. And you can click on the Total War thread he started to see him fapping all over those games. He also claimed to really like GTA4, a fucking CONSOLE game. What skyway's real problem is, and the reason he gets so much flak here, is that when he talks about games, they are either good, or shit. There's no middle ground. This is why he appears to simply be bitching for the sake of bitching, because he doesn't seem to be able to distinguish a simply "decent" or mediocre game from one that is either good or shit.

 

[MLMarkland]

Anyway, Skyway, there's no way you ever liked anything in even the smallest way, so nostalgia ain't gonna fly. Away. I may be tipsay.

Actually, skyway DOES like things, you just don't hear him talking about it that much. He likes the classics (PST and Fallouts) and Troika's stuff. And you can click on the Total War thread he started to see him fapping all over those games. He also claimed to really like GTA4, a fucking CONSOLE game. What skyway's real problem is, and the reason he gets so much flak here, is that when he talks about games, they are either good, or shit. There's no middle ground. This is why he appears to simply be bitching for the sake of bitching, because he doesn't seem to be able to distinguish a simply "decent" or mediocre game from one that is either good or shit.

In addition to smoking dicks, Dicksmoker proves quite insightful.

 

[Forest Dweller]

They were special dicks.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Anyway, Skyway, there's no way you ever liked anything in even the smallest way, so nostalgia ain't gonna fly. Away. I may be tipsay.

Actually, skyway DOES like things, you just don't hear him talking about it that much. He likes the classics (PST and Fallouts) and Troika's stuff. And you can click on the Total War thread he started to see him fapping all over those games. He also claimed to really like GTA4, a fucking CONSOLE game. What skyway's real problem is, and the reason he gets so much flak here, is that when he talks about games, they are either good, or shit. There's no middle ground. This is why he appears to simply be bitching for the sake of bitching, because he doesn't seem to be able to distinguish a simply "decent" or mediocre game from one that is either good or shit.

Because there is no middle ground. Fun is what a game is about. You either are having fun or you are not. You don't spend your good time on a videogame, thinking, "I don't know whether this is good or bad." You don't have to know or think anything, you just feel fun, and if you don't have fun, you stop playing.

Middle ground is a ridiculous concept, because a game can only provide you with a good incentive to keep playing, and if it does not give that incentive, it does not mean it is merely "not good", it means it is bad.

 

[Shannow]

"We find it frustrating in a lot of RPGs - and in games in general - is when you feel like you missed some bit of content or did something wrong - Parker declares. The team is avoiding the roadblock by making sure players are rewarded for any course of action, not just cleaving tightly to one paradigm. Anyone who got left out by being neutral with the Force (or juggling both Paragon and Renegade in Mass Effect) will definitely appreciate this inclusive approach to decision-making".

Considering that Mass Effect was so linear that your choices didn't make any real difference at all - that must mean that Obsidian reached a new low.

As well as I don't understand Obsidian's hype of C&C - what C&C if you can't let players miss a bit of content or do something wrong?

Dunno about ME but KotOR2 gave you stat bonuses for being extremely evil/good. That was just stupid and made a neutral path rather unrewarding. So for a roleplayer with strong powergamer tendencies like me it affected my decisions not on a c&c level but on a metagaming level. I'm not sure whether that quote realy relates to this "problem" and if it does it sounds like "give bonusses to the neutrals, too" instead of doing away with arbitrary bonuses.

You were rewarded for suppressing or devouring spirits in MotB? What?
You were rewarded only with more time to live and you were also punished for many many choices.

Controlable alignment changes are again a metagaming bonus. E.g. it made a dragon desciple/dwarven defender easy. Regular use of Surppress made sleeping vs. exploring a non-issue. With high craving you get stat bonuses. All of which I'd call bonuses. (Although, I don't see any problems with the bonuses for high craving.) And not mentioned by you but relevant to the point: your companions give you bonuses if you suck up enough to them.

While I personally just wish they'd get rid of all those bonuses, giving bonuses (and maluses) for all kinds of gameplay is certainly better than their previous efforts.

[EDIT] If that is at least part of what they mean. But the more often I read the quote the more I fear, skyway is right and they realy do mean (solely) content :/
Ah well, not interested in AP anyway.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Because there is no middle ground. Fun is what a game is about. You either are having fun or you are not. You don't spend your good time on a videogame, thinking, "I don't know whether this is good or bad." You don't have to know or think anything, you just feel fun, and if you don't have fun, you stop playing.

Middle ground is a ridiculous concept, because a game can only provide you with a good incentive to keep playing, and if it does not give that incentive, it does not mean it is merely "not good", it means it is bad.

Impressive trolling. :wink:

 

[Wyrmlord]

I just played this game. I had a very middle ground time with it.

It was not as middle ground as that other game, but quite middle ground, I must say.

 

[MetalCraze]

@Shannow:

IIRC Obsidian removed alignment changes in the first (or second) patch for MotB. But that was a very poor design choice nonetheless.

 

[inwoker]

D&D was poor design choice. Alignment system was consequence of that choice.

 

[Silellak]

Gameplay shmameplay, lockpick shmockpick, but,

"In my experience, time is of the essence."
"So you're just chomping at the bit, ready to take on the world"

If that dialog isn't framed satirically in the game, whoever wrote it is a fucking incompetent. It is objectively terrible writing. Whoever is supervising the subordinate writers is therefore necessarily also a fucking incompetent for not firing whichever transparently worthless shit wrote it. Whoever chose that to be in the hype reel is doubly fucking incompetent, to be able to see how shitty the finished product is and not be embarrassed by it. That all of this happens at Obsidian, a company with the primary virtue of having about 50% of the horrendous writing of the industry average, AUGURS BADLY. TELL ME IT'S SATIRICAL.

Sadly, I have to agree here. It made me wince, and I am notoriously tolerable of mediocre writing.

I just played this game. I had a very middle ground time with it.

It was not as middle ground as that other game, but quite middle ground, I must say.

Just like you can enjoy a movie and admit it's not very good, you can have fun with a game that is at best "fair" or "mediocre" in many ways. Though fun factor is certainly the most important judge of a game - if it ain't fun, it immediately fails - a game with poor design and annoying features can still be "fun" despite itself. This is why there is a magical gray area between "good" and "shit". Most modern games may not live up to certain classics, but I can still have fun with them, even if they are, from an objective standpoint, fairly average. Skyway mentioned Max Payne earlier, which is a good example. From a design and innovation standpoint, few games have matched what Max Payne accomplished, but on the other hand, there are still shooters since then I can enjoy, even if they don't come close to being as "good" of a game as Max Payne was.

Obviously, there are some people who can't bring themselves to have fun with a game unless it's "great" - the issues just bug them too much. I hate to say, but this IS a justifiable position, even if it's not one I take. There are many games I play through and enjoy, but if someone told me they couldn't stomach the game, I'd totally understand why.

 

[MLMarkland]

Obviously, there are some people who can't bring themselves to have fun with a game unless it's "great" - the issues just bug them too much. I hate to say, but this IS a justifiable position, even if it's not one I take. There are many games I play through and enjoy, but if someone told me they couldn't stomach the game, I'd totally understand why.

Excellent point; though I don't think many people take issue with people holding such a stance. I think what people generally take issue with in regards to holders of such attitudes are attempts to elevate personal tastes to general truth.

 

[xuerebx]

Gameplay shmameplay, lockpick shmockpick, but,

"In my experience, time is of the essence."
"So you're just chomping at the bit, ready to take on the world"

If that dialog isn't framed satirically in the game, whoever wrote it is a fucking incompetent. It is objectively terrible writing. Whoever is supervising the subordinate writers is therefore necessarily also a fucking incompetent for not firing whichever transparently worthless shit wrote it. Whoever chose that to be in the hype reel is doubly fucking incompetent, to be able to see how shitty the finished product is and not be embarrassed by it. That all of this happens at Obsidian, a company with the primary virtue of having about 50% of the horrendous writing of the industry average, AUGURS BADLY. TELL ME IT'S SATIRICAL.

Talk about an over reaction. Fuck, it's just 2 lines of dialogue (apart from the fact I see nothing wrong with them). I imagine you're red in the face, breathing heavily, and ready to cry

 

[Zomg]

affected ironic internet fakepost fakepost lol :D

 

[xuerebx]

Can't take anything for granted over here. I'm sure there are people who do actually cry over video games here.

 

[Zomg]

I wasn't kidding and I wasn't serious, I just don't always want to write in ubiquitous internet faggot mode where you never put more than one toe in an overt sentiment in case someone might think you're not a rich ten-foot tall drug lord rapist bon vivant Sinologist physicist when you aren't talking about fuck you basically.

 

[xuerebx]

I see. I haven't tried acid yet, from where did you buy yours?