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New Mass Effect interview: Cap'n Shepard = Jack Bauer

Discussion in 'BioWare' started by Vault Dweller, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    JF is stupid. I don't give a fuck about Bethesda games. Fuckin' moron.


    P.S. Some people here lack sarcasm detectors. :cry:
     
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  2. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    Your JE is missing a _. You are right nonetheless. :D

    You forgot to log in with your alt. ;)
     
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  3. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    @Jetpilot

    Golfclap.
     
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  4. Antagonist Liturgist

    Antagonist
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    As others have already mentioned the video and screenshots gave me serious flashbacks of Kotor. It's sometimes hard to believe how blatantly Bioware borrows ideas and whole concepts from their previous games (well, so does everybody else these days but still, I once expected a tad more creativity from them).
     
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  5. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
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    Well there was already Bloodlines, Deus Ex, SS2 and Ultima Underworld (ranged weapons shoot). But they are usually called FPS/RPG hybrids.
     
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  6. Chinese Jetpilot Arcane Patron

    Chinese Jetpilot
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    We need to tagline for the Mass Effect box. It's just DYING for a tagline. I'll get the ball rolling; you guys are a lot funnier than I am, so hopefully you'll come up with better ones. No photoshopping necessary (though feel free to do so).

    There's so much I wanted to do with this one, but a lack of skill (I'm not adept at extracting and placing images yet) and time means I can only mess with text. I originally wanted to place a slew of bodies on the ground:

    [​IMG]

    and

    Cobra-inspired
     
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  7. Cthulhugoat Arbiter

    Cthulhugoat
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    He's a GOD DAMNED tough guy.

    He grabs GOD DAMNED collars and takes names.

    He hates his GOD DAMNED love interest.

    Now he's going to save the GOD DAMNED world.




    *KOTOR: Legend of the Multi-Headed Lightsaber, The Spinoff preview included.
     
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  8. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    Outside of it being set in space, and being made by BIO; ME has very little in common with KOTOR. And, it's also gonna be way better.


    btw, L0L @ MASS GRAVES! :lol:
     
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  9. Texas Red Whiner

    Texas Red
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    Actually it looks likes KotOR. As in generic futurish setting with various species of aliens. And those negative/positive powers...
     
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  10. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    Ultima Underworld was a FP-RPG, whereas DeusEx was an FPS with RPG elements.
     
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  11. Admiral Rimjob POOBUM Arcane

    Admiral Rimjob POOBUM
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    I can slay my foes with Effect Lightning, as I kicked that little boy's robot puppy back on Planet Faggotron V.
     
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  12. hiciacit Liturgist

    hiciacit
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    "Rating Pending - E for EXTREME"

    :lol:
     
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  13. Chinese Jetpilot Arcane Patron

    Chinese Jetpilot
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    This one goes on sale to the wigger populations in the U.S. and Canada.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
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    True, but I don't think the term "FP-RPG" is sufficient to explain Ultima Underworld. Wizardry, Might & Magic and Bard's Tale were all first-person, but Ultima Underworld was different. You can use a cross-hair type cursor to shoot at enemies moving toward you in real time. You can run, jump and swim. That's why I like the term "First person action-RPG".
     
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  15. onemananadhisdroid Augur

    onemananadhisdroid
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    Aye, that's true. It's a FPS-RPG-Pre-Havoc-Physics-Real-Time-Dungeon-Crawl-Sneaker-Simulator™. Jesus Cripes! It's Underworld, get over these retarded made-up labels that people stick onto everything already. :D Oh Looking Glass how I miss thee. Sigh...
     
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  16. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    My point was merely that UU is an RPG, DX isn't. I'd call UU am Action-RPG, too.
     
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  17. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    What are the minimum changes would Deus Ex need to qualify as an RPG then?
     
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  18. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    Non-action gameplay then expansion of the gameworld and genre simulation (it is closest to this simulationist as it is), and bringing some of moral choices the game provides to be backed by system (since the game is more linear and lonesome then something like Baldur's Gate). This could make it a narrativist/simulationist RPG, the ending would be colored with the theme developed by the choices the player made throughout the game.
     
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  19. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    I think your criteria are more in line with your thinking for a good RPG. There are RPGs that are linear and without multiple endings. There are also RPGs with action-based combat and game play (Gothic and Oblivion spring to mind).

    Bare minimum of changes rather than "what would make it a good/decent RPG?".
     
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  20. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    They meet other agendas. You asked what Deus Ex was closest to.

    That is why they are called "Action-RPGs" as opposed to RPGs, certain RPG elements are diluted and replaced with action gameplay.

    That is the minimum unless you want a piss-poor half game (with no challenge, no exploration, and no moral questions).
     
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  21. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
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    It is possible to beat Deus Ex without ever utilizing any of your skills. That pushes it away from the rpg camp and toward action/arcade/platform games. It had some places where you could make choices (I liked that the game reacted to a number of things and put across the idea that your choices mattered a lot at least in a moral sense, even though they didn't always make much of a difference game-wise), but not enough (I was especially upset that I could not imitate Sam Carter and stay with UNATCO and that I couldn't take Bob Page up on his offer).

    I don't consider Deus Ex to be an RPG, although it does have RPG elements. That's I think it is appropriate that allgame.com lists it as a first-person shooter and the Underworld and Elder Scrolls games are first-person action RPGs. They also list the original System Shock as a first person adventure (which should be called fp action-adventure since Myst-likes are called f.p graphic adventures) and not an RPG, because though some people are fooled by the sequel the first game does not really have rpg elements. I don't know why they consider System Shock 2 to be a first-person action RPG when it is less of one than Deus Ex. It is also very odd that Bioshock is listed as a first-person action-rpg when it appears it will be less of an RPG than Invisible War was.
     
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  22. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    That doesn't matter, they are still RPGs and this site and others would cover them as such. No one would deny that they are still RPGs despite not having TB strategic combat or similar. Let's not get bogged down in made-up categories that few people can ever agree on. It's bad enough trying to pin down "what is a RPG" to start with. Strategic combat and turn-based combat are key factors for defining strategy games, not RPGs. They might be something you enjoy, but they don't disqualify it from being a RPG altogether. Gothic 3 is a good RPG (bugs aside), despite these elements you say dilute it. I think the whole "action-RPGs" and all the other various categories people make up on the spot are great for describing a game and giving you an idea of what to expect, but not for solid categorizations/genres or you end up with "First person action-RPG Codex" or even "FPS-RPG-Pre-Havoc-Physics-Real-Time-Dungeon-Crawl-Sneaker-Simulatorâ„¢ Codex". It's best just to stick to "RPG" to cover it all when appropriate.

    Do you consider the original Deus Ex to be a piss-poor game with no challenge, no exploration and no moral questions then?

    I've played more simple and linear "kill the big Foozle" and dungeon crawl RPGs (from simple ASCII types to the bigger budget IWD types, old and newer).

    I think TheGreatGodPan has a key point where player skills and the character skills come into it. The less reliant on on player skills, the more it is likely to feel true to the RPG roots for you. I know a few people were annoyed with Gothic 3 moving from using character skills to hit with bows and for the rolls on melee attacks to one that uses a physics based system that is more player dependant. The Sam Carter part he mentions is one that irked me too, but even without giving more choices it could have been accepted as a more linear RPG if that was the only problem.

    As the move to more player-based skills in Gothic 3 doesn't disqualify it from being a RPG to anyone, what was lost can't be considered vital to a game being one though. It can't be exploration and large/free form game worlds either or GTA type games could be included with Gothic. If GTA had levelling and stats as you killed, would it be a RPG as much as other linear or action based RPGs? What about the X-Com games? Again, very close to slipping into the RPG "categories". They have many elements that are considered to be RPG staples, but no one would consider it to be an RPG.

    At what point does it stop being a RPG and become something else? Or vice-versa. Purely out of interest as a Devil's Adovacte.
     
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  23. onemananadhisdroid Augur

    onemananadhisdroid
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    At this point.

    In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track (if it ever really was :D) : How do you think are the chances that there will ever be a Windows release of this game?
     
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  24. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    Forget it, punk.


    Back to Fez.

    I can't say I care much for a specific definiton of RPG. I hold the position that the more RPG-ish elements a game possesses, the more likely it's an RPG, but personally I decide by gut-feeling.
    I have very different expectations from a shooter and an RPG, and so far no game has close to really unifying them.
    Of course, many modern RPGs hardly meet my expectations, blurring the distinctions between genres. I don't care for them.

    DeusEX just didn't give me the impression of being an RPG. It just looked very much like an FPS from the beginning, including the HL-like training map, superficial as that similarity may be, to the pretty classic "level" design.
    And by "level" I mean maps, not character levels. The transistions are done quite cleverly, there's even one where you can move back and forth, although I saw no use for it.

    Gothic now, is an interesting hybrid. If any game comes close to actually unifying RPG and action game, it'll be Gothic-like.
    The first Gothics were very action-adventurish regarding combat, but emphasized their RPG-elements by starting with a very weak character. You instantly get the RPG-vibe when a wolf can kick your ass. That really IS a staple of the genre, although I wouldn't say that a game without levels cannot possibly be an RPG. This is one major point of disagreement with you. I don't know that there is any one "essential" element, the ultimate sign of RPGness. Additionally the pretty extensive social interaction was very RPGish.
    The third Gothic is actually less RPGish as far as combat is concerned, and social interaction also felt somewhat diluted, but the character system was heavily expanded upon and the ability to move around the world freely and even shape it to some extent just screams RPG.
     
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  25. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    I see what you mean, I had similar feelings to the games you mention.

    It comes back to essentially being both a gut feeling and there being a loose set of criteria associated with what we consider to be a RPG and if there are enough of them, then we accept them as one, but each game doesn't need to have all or the same criteria met to count. It's one of those odd things that while we all know what we mean when we talk about it, it's hard to be definite. Of course this means that there are bound to be some titles that straddle two genres and will be difficult to pigeon hole.
     
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