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New Mass Effect interview: Cap'n Shepard = Jack Bauer

Discussion in 'BioWare' started by Vault Dweller, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    Yes, they are called action-RPGs.

    Where do you think RPGs came from? It doesn't have to be turn-based but actions have to be backed by player decisions through a system, as opposed to action gameplay.

    Games can have RPG elements mixed with other genres.

    I'm saying if you just cut out the action elements from Deus to make a 'pure RPG' and replaced them with nothing there wouldn't be much challenge. Don't you think? Deus Ex didn't have the moral questions backed by system either.

    Which provided a gamist creative agenda.

    Its called an action-RPG so I guess it is disqualified from being an RPG. Decision based mechanic being replaced with action is a vital point. It is replacing system (the RPG backbone) with action (a gameplay element from elsewhere).

    GTA doesn't have much exploration. If it varied color and some character content backed by system, focused on the genre (in the literary sense), and opened up exploration (like the BG series does); it could be an action/RPG-lite.

    That is because they use system but don't match creative agenda (the other part of RPGs).

    When it replaces system or one of the three creative agendas backed by system with something else. Its a sliding scale just like games that require faster reaction and more focus are called "more action packed" as compared to simpler ones.

    We call it RPG when it has system and creative agenda backed by system. If the creative agenda backed by system is poorly designed or incoherent people mite call it a weak RPG, but doesn't change category.
     
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  2. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    Try writing that post again in clear and proper English, rather than that confusing and broken form. For example,"Which provided gameist creative agenda" sounds like gibberish. There's no such word as "gameist". You've obviously got some ideas and I'd like to hear them properly and give them the consideration they deserve, but I can't do that if the delivery is so poor. I'm not saying it to insult, it is genuinely broken and messy writing that is making it difficult for your point to come across or translate properly. Right now it reads like something that has been through the Babelfish translator.
     
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  3. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    Fair enough. I was referring to Gamism.

    The other two are Simulationism and Narrativism.

    Its part of the big theory The article is a bit outdated, a lot of info is scattered around the forums.

    Other specific examples would be appreciated.
     
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  4. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    I'd like to know what "three creative agendas" you're talking about.
     
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  5. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    Aha! I'll have a read through that link sometime, maybe it will explain the odd sentence structure and unexplained phrases (like the gameist one you mentioned). There were other oddities, such you saying things like "backed by system", rather than "backed by a/the system". Another example of that is "We call it RPG when it has system and creative agenda backed by system", that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You say "mite" instead of "might". It might seem like small things to you, but when you get it happening a lot it can make something that reads fine in your head sound very strange to someone else, I've had it happen to myself enough times (which is why I get someone else to proof read anything that is important for real life). As I said, it's not to be rude, only to express genuine confusion over what you meant. I'd rather be honest and say I didn't understand it than brush you off with a dismissal or nod along like a twit and pretend I understood.

    From a quick scan, I see the term "creative agenda" in your post relies on that article for its meaning too. You should quote that in context if you're going to borrow from it as the phrase on its own is ambiguous and left to interpretation. Of course, expecting someone to search for and read through an article just to find the meaning of a buzz word that could be replaced with normal English is bit much when the article isn't the topic of conversation to start with. Made-up words and phrases like that are always a pitfall. It can end up just as bad as marketing. Stick to real English.
     
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  6. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    "As the move to more player-based skills in Gothic 3 doesn't disqualify it from being a RPG to anyone"

    Gothic 3 is an Action RPG. btw, Contrary to what some think, that's not me dissing Gothic 3. Gothic 3 is an Action RPG; because that's exactly what genre it is.

    Deal with it, you fuckin' moron. :evil:
     
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  7. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    And? So we agree it is an RPG.
     
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  8. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    No. You said it was a RPG. I say (and, it is) an Acxtion RPG just like JE, BL, and ME. Deal with it, SUCKA!

    Big differences between RPG, Action, RPG, and Action games. I didnt' think one confuse the three.
     
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  9. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    Action-RPG is just a sub-genre of RPGs. It's all under one heading. There's no Action-RPG Codex.
     
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  10. Admiral Rimjob POOBUM Arcane

    Admiral Rimjob POOBUM
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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    Would you also consider it a sub-genre of action games? It is a hybrid, it has elements of both.
     
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  12. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    Human Shield 4 THA W! :D
     
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  13. Claw Erudite Patron

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  14. Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Developer

    Elhoim
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    The sadness comes when an Action RPG is awarded the prize of "Best RPG of E32006".

    So the best RPG showcased was an action one? Sad...
     
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  15. Ladonna Arcane

    Ladonna
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    Is there anything else to give the award to these days? Enlighten me as to when the last 'RPG' on the PC was created, and tell me how said 'RPG' is and 'RPG'.

    Use the three systems in your answer if you please :wink:
     
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  16. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    I'm not sure on dates but:

    Final Fantasy series is all very weak Gamist. Gamist usually have a big optional monster that can seperate the winners from the losers.

    Baldur's Gate series is Sim/Gamist with some Nar.

    Icewind Dale would be Gamist.

    Fallout was strong Sim with some Nar. The GURPs design is obvious, trying to design a reactive and realistic world first.

    Arcanum was like Fallout but more incoherent, putting long fights that didn't match design.

    ToEE was Gamist with some Sim (designing for alignment system with a few approaches and endings; they want to have characters play out "like they should").

    Wizardry 8 was strong Gamist (less focus on how adventuring would play out and more on challenges). Maybe the last harcore Gamist RPG.

    Darklands was strong Sim.

    Planescape was Nar/Sim (probably the only RPG that tried to focus on Narrativist play but wasn't fully backed by system).

    I'm not sure any big-name pure RPGs were released in 2006. Probably even the developers would admit to blending with action games.

    MMORPGs are weird and are always mixed with action but would probably be weak Gamist with the earlier ones trying Simulationist also. The point is to overcome stuff and you can brag about it, but the problem is that it is based on time put in instead of smart thinking, making competition weak. Guild Wars mite have gotten closer but its so sterile that is becomes closer to strategy (the creative agenda to use character to face challenges is boxed into set balanced encounters with rival armies, with no long term victory condition).

    This would have been an action RPG. On the RPG side it tried to be Sim with some minor Nar but the same design flaws from Arcanum are evident with filler that distracts from the focus.

    Bloodlines is poor on Nar because (like the "Storyteller" system :roll: ) it expects low humanity to act their part correctly and even uses XP to buy back humanity. Narrativism is about getting the player to make moral choices, even something like Fallout's separating out Karma and Reputation from each town can free players to make moral choices without limits (this was probably a fluke).

    Yeah like VD point it, it takes the worst exploration of Icewind Dale and the worse challenging combat from BG and tries to fit it together. NWN2 is a weak Gamist/Sim but it still was an RPG. It mite have also been a Sim that was just focused on showing off D&D 3.5, on how many rules it can play with.
     
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  17. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    VtM: Bloodlines.
     
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  18. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    "VtM: Bloodlines."

    Action RPG.

    Anyways, the last PC RPG released was NWN2. One could argue its quaklity; but it *is* a RPG.


    P.S. WOW! Human Shield is impressive! He replied to my post before I even posted it! AMAZING!!!

    P.S.S. And, JarlFrank's too.


    :shock: :shock: :shock:
     
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  19. DarkUnderlord Professional Throne Sitter

    DarkUnderlord
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  20. Fez Erudite

    Fez
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    Hurrah, smoke them if you've got them folks. That site makes a change from the usual Chuck Norris.
     
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  21. KreideBein Scholar

    KreideBein
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    Before I realized that the site was about the show 24 (I don't keep up with TV), this one made me think that the site was satirizing ME.
     
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  22. Admiral Rimjob POOBUM Arcane

    Admiral Rimjob POOBUM
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    Given that it just copypasta'd Chuck Norris jokes and replaced the names with "Jack Bauer", I don't see how.
     
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  23. bylam Funcom Developer

    bylam
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    I prefer Chuck Norris. I've never even heard of Jack Baur attempting a roundhouse kick.
     
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  24. MacBone Scholar

    MacBone
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    Eh, a lot of 'em, but then there's this:
     
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  25. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
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    Cognitive Elite HQ
    ;)
     
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