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Information New Shadowrun Returns Screenshots and Info at Game Informer

Hobo Elf

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Shadowrun Returns keeps surprising me with how well it's all coming together. It looks really great so far! I had the lowest expectations for it, but won't be surprised now if it ends up being the best KS project I funded. Along with Barkley 2. :smug:
Just glad that we are getting some good Cyberpunk games again.
 

felipepepe

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Wasteland 2 screenshot released -> Some say it looks bad -> Those people are ridiculed and called morons for discussing the art direction and graphics of just released in game screenshot.
Shadowrun Returns screenshots released -> A circle jerk forms saying how MAJESTIC it looks -> No one sees a problem.
Shadowrun guys act decided, "this is the game looks"; while W2 went the dumb path of "it will be kind of like this, except better, unless you guys have something against it..."

not to mention that Shadowrun DO look great, unlike that disproportional plastic army men simulator...
 

MapMan

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Yeah, I agree but what I was pointing out is that codex is becoming like biotard forums. A circle jerk forms and only praise is welcome. Try to say something negative and its end of line.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"The dialog system is keyword-based"

Overall sounds good but this is total bullshit. Keyword based dialogue is ALWAYS fukkin' lame. ALWAYS
 

felipepepe

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A circle jerk forms and only praise is welcome. Try to say something negative and its end of line.
End of the line what? Thread will be closed? You'll be banned? Lose KKK's? I don't see any sort of backlash in Codex, except for some users ignoring retards or those that just want to be edgy...
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The game looks good, but I'd advise the Codex to expect disappointment if only because of how low budget it is. It's gonna be small.
 

Mrowak

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Project: Eternity
Yeah, I agree but what I was pointing out is that codex is becoming like biotard forums. A circle jerk forms and only praise is welcome. Try to say something negative and its end of line.

I wouldn't say it got that far, but there are first signs of it here. Alternatively, Codex goes bipolar and forms a ciclejerk bent on hating something. Not sure which stance is worse.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Sawyer is butthurt about anything that iz 2 komplicated (in his opinion), which he likes to calls "degenerate gaming" or something. He just wants it to be simple and "good" like in Skyrim, which is currently his favorite game.

Where is this from btw?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/baby_goat
94 hours. :M

He hasn't praised anything specific about it so I don't care. I doubt he likes how unbalanced it is. I'm sure Tim Cain, the Oblivion and Fallout 3 lover, doesn't care how unbalanced it is.
Does anyone actually listen to what Sawyer and Avellone think about game systems?
Considering Sawyer's given GDC presentations, I'd say yes.
Neither has actually produced a great gameplay-oriented game.
Because they haven't been given an opportunity to finish. Seven Dwarves, Aliens, and North Carolina were canceled.


Their only criticism seems to be about the amount of dice, which doesn't seem like a big one, and is also something a CRPG player doesn't have to worry about.
Avellone disagrees: " I’d be interested to work on a Shadowrun game as long as there was less dice-rolling in the system." He's clearly talking about a video game, not a P&P thing.

Plus I'm sure Sawyer has many more criticisms, "too many dice" is just one.

Why is an amount of dice, either way, a bad thing?
Too much to chance?
http://gametheoryblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/best-and-worst-of-shadowrun.html
Too many D6’s. I have a lot of D6’s, more than any reasonable human being could possibly have a need for. Except if you play Shadowrun. Since the game only uses the D6 and most checks are opposed successes it requires an obscene amount of dice. More than most players would have. More room to roll them than most tables have. When dice are cutting into space that could otherwise be used for food, there is a problem. And that is a lot of math that tends to slow the game down.
Josh wasn't exaggerating with that image.

"The dialog system is keyword-based"


Overall sounds good but this is total bullshit. Keyword based dialogue is ALWAYS fukkin' lame. ALWAYS
Our base conversation system is in and working. We’ve got branching dialog in the game that performs checks to determine what dialog options to give you - we plan to note the skill/attribute/race, etc. that allowed that option to appear. We (and you) can do all sorts of cool things with our conversation system combined with our trigger system. Things like attaching a conversation to a window prop so it feels like you’re overhearing people on the other side of the window or having a conversation that convinces someone to turn off the fog of war in an area and escort you to the mainframe.

Sounds like it could be fun. And I do like RPGs that don't drown in you dialogue.
 

Gruia

Educated
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
53
DOPE!. can't wait ! this is the perspective i was looking for
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I suggest you all wait for the big Wasteland 2 update this week before making dire pronouncements about its visuals.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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Why is an amount of dice, either way, a bad thing?
Too much to chance?
http://gametheoryblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/best-and-worst-of-shadowrun.html
Too many D6’s. I have a lot of D6’s, more than any reasonable human being could possibly have a need for. Except if you play Shadowrun. Since the game only uses the D6 and most checks are opposed successes it requires an obscene amount of dice. More than most players would have. More room to roll them than most tables have. When dice are cutting into space that could otherwise be used for food, there is a problem. And that is a lot of math that tends to slow the game down.
Josh wasn't exaggerating with that image.

514n3Jp-kvL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


36-pack of small chessex dice

raflebaeger_m_bund_05-p.jpg


Dice cup with rolling mat.

If you need more than 10x10cm of rolling space for shadowrun, you're a faggot who is doing it wrong.

If "count the amount of dice that show up as 5 or 6" is advanced math for the blog dude, maybe he should go back to playing checkers. Heck, a paticularily lazy guy in my SR group bought black dice with white pips and used a marker to color the 2's, '3's and 4's black, the 1's red and the 6's green. Tallying up a result only takes a second or two with those dice.

Half the dice red? Glitch. Count green+white for # of hits. If using edge, reroll green.



Lots of d6'es leaves less to chance than rolling 1d20 or whatever Major_Blackhart. Because you're rolling a lot of dince, the odds of getting an "average" amount of hits (5+ in SR4, so 1/3rd of all dice rolled) are much larger. A "crit" of all your dice coming up as hits is still possible, but much, much rarer than the 1/20 chance you get in d&d.
 

Hobo Elf

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The game looks good, but I'd advise the Codex to expect disappointment if only because of how low budget it is. It's gonna be small.

I don't really mind if it's small as long as the community gets active and makes tons of good content. That's pretty much the main thing about it anyway, right? Kinda like NWN, minus the long ass and boring as fuck campaign. Short and sweet is good enough for me.
 

Wizfall

Cipher
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Oct 3, 2012
Messages
816
Developers have said it won't be a short game but that it won't be a huge sandbox game.
I expect it to be the length of fallout 1.
Ok for me, i learned to dislike boring filler sandbox games where everything loose interest way before the end of the game.
Better to have it a bit short but interesting still the end than draining.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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If the game and level editor is halfway decent, I have about 3 dozen runs* from old pen&paper campaigns I could port over. I did enjoy toying with the editor for neverwinter nights and making content for multiplayer servers back in the day.



*As in: runs that could be used at a gaming convention with no additions, fully fleshed out NPCs, background stories and plans for alternate solutions for the PCs. If I added in the stuff wher eI just have a couple of building schematics and a rough outline of what johnson and the opposition intends and expecting the GM to fill in the blanks, the number is closer to a hundred.
 
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If the game and level editor is halfway decent, I have about 3 dozen runs* from old pen&paper campaigns I could port over. I did enjoy toying with the editor for neverwinter nights and making content for multiplayer servers back in the day.



*As in: runs that could be used at a gaming convention with no additions, fully fleshed out NPCs, background stories and plans for alternate solutions for the PCs. If I added in the stuff wher eI just have a couple of building schematics and a rough outline of what johnson and the opposition intends and expecting the GM to fill in the blanks, the number is closer to a hundred.

:bro:

This time, Codex will take matters in its own hands and bring the incline single-handedly!

:yeah:
 

Arkadin

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big muddy
It seems like Josh Sawyer would appreciate the bellcurve probabilities that result from using lots of of d6. It adds consistency. Kind of like what he says he wants to do with PE. Oh well...

Game does look beautiful, like we're back in Black Isle days.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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It seems like Josh Sawyer would appreciate the bellcurve probabilities that result from using lots of of d6.

Then maybe he should rip off the inclinous SR4 system - (skill+ability+modifiers) d6'es, everything over value x rolled counts as a success, amount of successes needed either flat target number or exceeding an opposing (skill + attribute + modifiers) roll.

Ripping off d&d3.0 with a dash of DND4 and names changed around slightly is dumb. But entirely in line with Obsidians track record of making games with excellent writing and retardedly stupid mechanics+gameplay.


Heck, the SR4 way of resolving a pistol shooting a dude is beautiful in its complexity yet simple to comprehend.

Attacker rolls his weapon skill + his agility +/- modifiers. (Poor visibility, smartlink cyberware, attacker is runing, shooting at long range, target in cover etc).
Defender rolls reaction. (+ Dodge if he spent an action to do so. Effectively being in defensive stance).
Attacker hits vs (defender hits +Target Number) determines of the attacker hits the target. Net successes over the base TN increase the damage value of the weapon on a 1:1 basis. (So if you roll tons of successes, you "critically hit" for more damage).

If hit, damage is resolved.
Attacks have a "damage code" that tells how much damage they do. For instance, a heavy pistol may be 5P-1. That is "5 Physical damage, -1 modifier to enemy armor".
Assuming the attack above hit with +2 net successes after all modifiers, the attack would potentially do 7 damage. the defender now attempts to absorb the damage with his armor and toughness.
Armor penetration is applied to the defenders armor (if any). Assume he has a trenchcoat lined with kevlar that gives him 6 ballistic armor. If the attacker hit with 0 net successes (met the target number, no more) the armor would convert the physical damage to stun damage (easier to heal) because the attack strength does not exceed the defensive value of the armor. But since this isn't the case, he'll be taking physical damage. He rolls his (body+armor) number of dice, every hit reduces the final damage by 1. If damage is reduced to 0 or less, the attack is absorbed by the defenses. Otherwise, the remainder of the damage is noted on the damage track.


It basically allows for a good amount of depth, bell curve in success ratings, the option to go for high-damage/low penetration, low-damage/high penetration, some mix thereof or even sacrificing/gaining accuracy at th eexpense of damage/pen with relatively simple tweaks that maintain the consistency of the system and are easy for players to understand and compare. But in essence, the checks made are:

1: skill+ability+modifiers vs reaction+modifier -> transfer net successes
2: armor+body vs damage value+net successes

3 dice rolls. A to-hit roll that establishes base damage; a defense roll which modifies/negates base damage and an absorb roll that determines how much health is lost.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Any clue if it will have adventure game elements like the original?
 

thesheeep

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It basically allows for a good amount of depth, bell curve in success ratings, the option to go for high-damage/low penetration, low-damage/high penetration, some mix thereof or even sacrificing/gaining accuracy at th eexpense of damage/pen with relatively simple tweaks that maintain the consistency of the system and are easy for players to understand and compare. But in essence, the checks made are:

1: skill+ability+modifiers vs reaction+modifier -> transfer net successes
2: armor+body vs damage value+net successes

3 dice rolls. A to-hit roll that establishes base damage; a defense roll which modifies/negates base damage and an absorb roll that determines how much health is lost.
Exactly. People claiming that this is too complicated should probably play this.

But it is also true that SR has a lot more rules than just this. Magic rules, matrix rules (we never allowed hackers in our group because it would have been yet another ruleset-within-ruleset to cover), and more. Just take the different ways to calculate drain, depending on your tradition of magic, etc. Or how some spells that cause physical damage have to be resisted with willpower, it seems arbitrary. You basically have to know each spell by heart to know what you have to roll, and when. A bit more streamlining would really improve playability, and I hope that they will do it with 5th Ed. Like making all rules work like the one you described, without matrix, magic, etc. having their own little extras.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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But it is also true that SR has a lot more rules than just this. Magic rules, matrix rules (we never allowed hackers in our group because it would have been yet another ruleset-within-ruleset to cover), and more

SR4 was basically 3 kinds of test you rolled.
Skill+ability+modifiers vs flat target number
skill+ability+modifiers vs opponents skill+ability+modifiers
Skill+ability+modifiers every [time interval] until x hits are accumulated. (For extended stuff like figuring out how long it takes you to fix a car or pick a lock).


Skill checks, magic, hacking, rigging. Everything's one of those 3 kinds of test. GM just needs to tell you what skill/ability to use and what modifier(s) if any.
 

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