New Space Hulk

[Grunker]

People calling their 16-minute blind Let's Play "FIRST IMPRESSIONS" should be shot on sight.

 

[Berekän]

Sooooo that trailer kind of has my interest piqued.

Could anyone kind of give me a quick edumacation seminar on Space Hulk?

I know it's a turn-based squad tactics game set in the WH 40K universe but perhaps I should know more before I plunk down some potato on this.

From what I understand somebody controls the genestealers and somebody controls the Space Marines. The mehreens have to do mission objectives in the space hulk and the genestealers have to steal their jeans kill them all.

Any single-player campaigns or is it strictly multiplayer?

There's this game, Alien Assault, plays with the same rules and in fact started as a Space Hulk clone 'till they got a cease and desist letter by GW. It's free so you should play it and see if you like the gameplay enough that you would put down money to get this new game.

 

[Branm]

Sooooo that trailer kind of has my interest piqued.

Could anyone kind of give me a quick edumacation seminar on Space Hulk?

I know it's a turn-based squad tactics game set in the WH 40K universe but perhaps I should know more before I plunk down some potato on this.

From what I understand somebody controls the genestealers and somebody controls the Space Marines. The mehreens have to do mission objectives in the space hulk and the genestealers have to steal their jeans kill them all.

Any single-player campaigns or is it strictly multiplayer?

3 tutorial missions and all 12 missions from the original Sin of Damnation campaign. (exact replica of the board game campaign as well)

Can play those single and multiplayer.


The editor should add good replay value since the multi so much fun!

 

[Dr Tomo]

I wonder if future expansions or dlc will feature other races of the GF universe or is the board game only allow the nid's.

 

[Branm]

Board game only has nid's. And from nid's there was only Genestealers. Even though this game also adds Broodlords. Cant remember if those were in the board game.

 

[Blaine]

28 euros good?

Eh... not sure yet. I've played through the tutorial and the first few missions.

It's challenging enough, I think, even on Normal but especially on Hard. The game looks and sounds fine, though I've gotten inexplicable graphics lag on a stage or two—and I'm pretty sure my GTX 580 is up to snuff for a tiny environment rendered with 2003 graphics technology. The UI is serviceable, but the informational text is rife with sloppy grammar. It's not difficult to understand, just annoying. The Terminators' walking animations are slow as fuck once a movement command is given, with no option for accelerated or instant movement provided, meaning you're wasting minutes per scenario needlessly on watching Space Marines walk.

Most damning for me, this game is heavily reliant on die rolls and luck, although that's probably also true of the wargame and the classic DOS game (haven't played them in ages, can't remember). Command Points are a pool of 1d6 additional AP for your squad to use as you please, and they're part of that randomness, although a Sergeant allows you to reroll them once while he lives, ameliorating the randomness and adding a more-or-less welcome layer of strategic depth (choice of rerolling or not, protecting the Sergeant). Most of the randomness stems from to-hit rolls, whereby you can theoretically use up 10 AP and miss with a 'bolter every single shot, firing at a queue of four Tyranids. Or, you might take them all out with 4 AP. (Overwatch seems much more effective than active fire on the whole, but can't always be relied upon or even used effectively.)

Such situations can and do mean the difference between winning a scenario handily and getting pincered and slaughtered, meaning you can take the same series of actions and either win or lose purely based on serendipity.

I have yet to determine how the AI chooses to deploy Tyranids. Hopefully it's not random.

 

[Grunker]

Most damning for me, this game is heavily reliant on die rolls and luck, although that's probably also true of the wargame and the classic DOS game (haven't played them in ages, can't remember). Command Points are a pool of 1d6 additional AP for your squad to use as you please, and they're part of that randomness, although a Sergeant allows you to reroll them once while he lives, ameliorating the randomness and adding a more-or-less welcome layer of strategic depth (choice of rerolling or not, protecting the Sergeant). Most of the randomness stems from to-hit rolls, whereby you can theoretically use up 10 AP and miss with a 'bolter every single shot, firing at a queue of four Tyranids. Or, you might take them all out with 4 AP. (Overwatch seems much more effective than active fire on the whole, but can't always be relied upon or even used effectively.)

With the current games environment all I could think when I read this was "well, at least you're rolling 1d6 and spending AP"

 

[Baalorlord]

Longtime lurker here, forced out of hiding in the dark recesses of this place to post in this thread, for I find it most intriguing.

I'm a big fan of the board game, so I have been watching this release closely in the hopes that it does not suck. I haven't bought this yet as I am still unsure of the quality. I intend to get my hands on a pirate copy asap so that I can determine if it is worth money for my friends and I. When I do so, I will post a thorough review here from the perspective of one who has played a great deal of the board game.

The fucktard in that "first impressions" video has no fucking clue what he is doing or what he is playing. I'm not sure he even realizes he's playing a video game adaptation of a board game. Regardless, the video does provide some hope since everything I saw was faithful to the game and it appeared at first glance that the genestealer AI player was at least minimally competent.

@JudasIscariot , you wanted an explanation as to what exactly Space Hulk is; I shall give you (and any curious others) a full explanation.

Space Hulk is a tactical squad-based game for two players. One player controls a force of space marines aboard the space hulk Sin of Damnation, in their various efforts to cleanse the ship. The other player controls a neverending horde of ravenous genestealers whose goal is to kill the space marines. You don't need to be familiar with Warhammer 40k lore to enjoy the game (indeed, Space Hulk was what got me interested in 40k in the first place).

The game uses a misson-based setup, generally translating to a boardgame session of 2-3 hours for a single mission. The PC game would take less time, I imagine, since so much is handles for the players (mainly mission setup and dice rolling). Each mission has a unique objective for the Space Marine team to complete, and it is the genestealer player's goal to prevent that from occuring. The objective-based play adds a lot to the game - the space marine player cannot win simply by killing genestealers, which in most missions are actually infinite in number, with a fixed amount being added to the board every round. Likewise, the specific goal of the mission will alter how the genestealer player moves as well - sometimes all he needs to do is eliminate a specific marine in the squad to win. To simulate the desperate atmosphere of space marines fighting lightning-fast genestealers in the cramped corridors of a space hulk, there is an optional rule that adds a time limit to the space marine turns - but not to the genestealer player, who can plan as methodically as he wants.

The rules of the game are simple, but I find the strategy quite enjoyable and somewhat deep. The space marine player has a great deal of options available to him, with the marine's ability to shoot and move, enter overwatch or guard, various weapon loadouts and squad compositions, and the ability to use Command Points in a variety of ways. Contrary to this, every genestealer is the same, with basically only the ability to move quickly and kill things in melee. Because of this, there is no general "strategy" a genestealer player might follow. Instead they must adapt and figure out the weak points in the marine player's formation - a tile uncovered by overwatch, a door they can manipulate to draw overwatch fire and possibly jam their foe's gun - stuff like that. Because of how many options are available to the space marine player, even a skilled player will make mistakes - especially if you are playing with a turn timer. I can't imagine the AI opponent will be able to competently seek out weakness like a skilled genestealer player, but I'll give the game devs the benefit of the doubt until I see for myself.

Like any warhammer game, this game is heavily dependent upon dice rolls and luck. You can do everything right and still lose if the dice take a foul turn. I personally enjoy the random element, but it can be a deal-breaker for some.

 

[Diablo169]

Game appears to be rather unpolished in the animations and there isn't any music at all. Could have really done with some to add to the creepy atmosphere. Are Terminators supposed to be that slow?

 

[JudasIscariot]

Longtime lurker here, forced out of hiding in the dark recesses of this place to post in this thread, for I find it most intriguing.

I'm a big fan of the board game, so I have been watching this release closely in the hopes that it does not suck. I haven't bought this yet as I am still unsure of the quality. I intend to get my hands on a pirate copy asap so that I can determine if it is worth money for my friends and I. When I do so, I will post a thorough review here from the perspective of one who has played a great deal of the board game.

The fucktard in that "first impressions" video has no fucking clue what he is doing or what he is playing. I'm not sure he even realizes he's playing a video game adaptation of a board game. Regardless, the video does provide some hope since everything I saw was faithful to the game and it appeared at first glance that the genestealer AI player was at least minimally competent.

@JudasIscariot , you wanted an explanation as to what exactly Space Hulk is; I shall give you (and any curious others) a full explanation.

Space Hulk is a tactical squad-based game for two players. One player controls a force of space marines aboard the space hulk Sin of Damnation, in their various efforts to cleanse the ship. The other player controls a neverending horde of ravenous genestealers whose goal is to kill the space marines. You don't need to be familiar with Warhammer 40k lore to enjoy the game (indeed, Space Hulk was what got me interested in 40k in the first place).

The game uses a misson-based setup, generally translating to a boardgame session of 2-3 hours for a single mission. The PC game would take less time, I imagine, since so much is handles for the players (mainly mission setup and dice rolling). Each mission has a unique objective for the Space Marine team to complete, and it is the genestealer player's goal to prevent that from occuring. The objective-based play adds a lot to the game - the space marine player cannot win simply by killing genestealers, which in most missions are actually infinite in number, with a fixed amount being added to the board every round. Likewise, the specific goal of the mission will alter how the genestealer player moves as well - sometimes all he needs to do is eliminate a specific marine in the squad to win. To simulate the desperate atmosphere of space marines fighting lightning-fast genestealers in the cramped corridors of a space hulk, there is an optional rule that adds a time limit to the space marine turns - but not to the genestealer player, who can plan as methodically as he wants.

The rules of the game are simple, but I find the strategy quite enjoyable and somewhat deep. The space marine player has a great deal of options available to him, with the marine's ability to shoot and move, enter overwatch or guard, various weapon loadouts and squad compositions, and the ability to use Command Points in a variety of ways. Contrary to this, every genestealer is the same, with basically only the ability to move quickly and kill things in melee. Because of this, there is no general "strategy" a genestealer player might follow. Instead they must adapt and figure out the weak points in the marine player's formation - a tile uncovered by overwatch, a door they can manipulate to draw overwatch fire and possibly jam their foe's gun - stuff like that. Because of how many options are available to the space marine player, even a skilled player will make mistakes - especially if you are playing with a turn timer. I can't imagine the AI opponent will be able to competently seek out weakness like a skilled genestealer player, but I'll give the game devs the benefit of the doubt until I see for myself.

Like any warhammer game, this game is heavily dependent upon dice rolls and luck. You can do everything right and still lose if the dice take a foul turn. I personally enjoy the random element, but it can be a deal-breaker for some.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I kind of already knew what Space Hulk was but the details you mentioned (infinite amounts of Genestealers, the time limit) are very helpful to me regarding this new Space Hulk game.

Also, dice are dicks in every game so I think anyone who plays dice-dependent games already knows what he or she is getting into :D

 

[Branm]

Game appears to be rather unpolished in the animations and there isn't any music at all. Could have really done with some to add to the creepy atmosphere. Are Terminators supposed to be that slow?

Well they move slow as shit in the board game....I suppose it makes sense. The movment doesnt really annoy me that much since you can issue a move command and then issue another right after so you can have all Terminators moving at the same time.


BTW the time limit for the Space Marine turn is in. Its auto on while on hard and you can enable it manually for other difficulties.

Jamming is also in, your gun can only jam while in overwatch and if you roll duel 1's. If you roll duel 6's I believe you kil lthe stealer but jam after that.

 

[Baalorlord]

Jamming is also in, your gun can only jam while in overwatch and if you roll duel 1's. If you roll duel 6's I believe you kil lthe stealer but jam after that.

If it follows the rules of the boardgame, you should jam any time you get doubles on your attack dice - a 1/6 chance every time you fire. Jams should be pretty frequent. And yes, if you roll double 6s (or double 5s with a sustained fire bonus) you should both score a kill and jam.

Terminator armor is designed to turn its wearer into an invincible juggernaut - it's tougher than tank armor. Mobility was not a prime concern. If the terminators need to get somewhere in a hurry, they have built-in teleporter packs on their suit that let them warp around willy-nilly. I forget what the explanation is for the lack of this feature in the board game. In that sense, the animations are somewhat reasonable. It is troubling that when you do sometime like move and turn the game plays the move animation and then the turn animation in a jilting fashion, rather than have a relatively smooth combined animation that looks somewhat realistic. Quirky/crappy animations with good gameplay is much more forgivable than the inverse, at least.

 

[Blaine]

Are Terminators supposed to be that slow?

My guess is that the ship is without gravity, so that the Space Marines need magnetic boots to cling to the hull... which may also explain the exaggerated banging noises their footsteps make, not to mention the fact that they turn more slowly than a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Space Marines definitely aren't that slow planetside in any other WH40K game I've played.

 

[Destroid]

But is it better than the old space hulk videogame?

 

[Dr Tomo]

I believe that the crap animations and Terminators moving slow as tar can be fixed later in patches like the weird bizarro world lag that occasionally hits the game. That video was weird where tutorial he keeps getting fps drops and then an actual mission he hits a high 160. The terminators moving that slow was a design fault in my opinion as Civ games has the same thing, but the dev's give you the option of changing the speed and make things move a bit faster.

 

[Infinitron]

RPS review by Rab Florence (Doritos scandal victim): http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/16/wot-i-think-space-hulk/

He hates it.

 

[Trash]

And he's right. Game is utter shit. Woe to those who pledged for the Jagged Alliance Kickstarter from the same team.

I mean, they could've just copied the old Space Hulk from EA or Alien Assault for a good game and instead they fuck it up massively. How they manage to do that with a simple yet awesome concept like this is beyond me. Fucking incompetents.

 

[Infinitron]

And he's right. Game is utter shit.

More details, please?

 

[Trash]

Just read the review. It's slow, cumbersome, unwieldy, unpolished, laggy and has more bugs than genestealers. Worst of all, it us utterly unimaginative. With which I mean it not only lacks a lot of things but you also get the distinct notion the dev never even thought of things to make it any better. It's a shittily designed game. Which is amazing concerning what its source material is.

You're honestly much better off getting the old Space Hulk to run or nab a copy of Alien Assault. They convey not only the feel of the boardgame much better but are also better games. More importantly, these games are fun.

This being shit is bad. It also means that there is only a snowflake's chance in hell that the new JA will be anything but shit.

 

[Infinitron]

slow, cumbersome, unwieldy, unpolished, laggy and has more bugs than genestealers

Clearly the game needed more playtesting, but those things don't sound like inherent design flaws that can't be fixed post-release

 

[Trash]

When I start listing everything I disliked you can make a bulletpoint out of everything and claim it might be fixed in a patch. That's not going to happen for the simple reason that this an utterly boring and unimaginative adaption from the start. It's been shoddily build from the base up. Go demo it and see.

 

[Grunker]

Just read the review. It's slow, cumbersome, unwieldy, unpolished, laggy and has more bugs than genestealers. Worst of all, it us utterly unimaginative. With which I mean it not only lacks a lot of things but you also get the distinct notion the dev never even thought of things to make it any better. It's a shittily designed game. Which is amazing concerning what its source material is.

You're honestly much better off getting the old Space Hulk to run or nab a copy of Alien Assault. They convey not only the feel of the boardgame much better but are also better games. More importantly, these games are fun.

This being shit is bad. It also means that there is only a snowflake's chance in hell that the new JA will be anything but shit.

Fuck man, I caved in and bought this yesterday though I haven't played it yet.

Though... I gotta say, it doesn't sound like what you highlight are problems with design as much as with technical stuff. Can't that be fixed? I mean, if it's a straight up copy of the board game, then... what's the dealio?

Meh, will try for myself.

EDIT: Hmm, read Florence's review. That looks bad.

 

[LeJosh]

That reviewer needs to calm down on the caps, it seems a little exaggerated the problems he's having.

Such as "I CAN MOVE PIECES INSTANTLY WITH THE BOARD GAME, WHY NOT THIS?"

Sounds like a butthurt fanboy most of the time...

 

[Trash]

Camera, animations, muddled ugly graphics, slow and dull gameplay, lack of any tension during overwatch and ofcourse the entire lack of polish and abundance of bugs are things you don't simply fix with a patch. Worst of all, it seems to me the devs simply don't know how to make a good game. Because the most glaring fault this thing has is its utter lack of anything resembling fun.

Which is simply astounding concerning its pedigree.

The game is a very poorly executed translation from the boardgame to a computer game. One done by people who simply seem to lack the skills necessary for creating a fun computer game. Even when they have older, succesfull examples all ready to show them how it was done before. That surprised me and that makes me just shake my head at the thought of this dev making a new JA.

 

[Grunker]