Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

New Space Hulk

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Berekän, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. groke Arcane Patron

    groke
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    SAVE THIS CHARACTER? NO.
    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera BattleTech
    Are there fat purple throned psyker-aliens or no? I couldn't care less about shitty animations, this is all that matters to me.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Misconnected Savant

    Misconnected
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    587
    No. It's a port of SH3e, so there's a Brood Lord which is sort of the same thing [EDIT: same thing as a Patriarch, I meant]. But there's no Patriarchs, Magi or Hybrids.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    26,933
    Location:
    Tampon Bay
    TotalBiscuit: "this is low budget"
     
    ^ Top  
  4. spectre Arcane

    spectre
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,532
    Downloaded. Wow, this is low budget indeed. Doesn't even have an intro vid and I'm pretty positive it wasn't ripped... it's not the 1990s anymore.
    Edit: Scratch that, it has an intro movie, I must have clicked past it by accident. Nothing to write home bout, though. It mostly uses in game assets with a filter.
    Starting screen has the tell tale Unity quirk, the camera tilts as you move the mouse. Seriously, doesn't anyone in the business know how to turn it off?
    I've never played any tabletop, only played alien assault (didn't love it).

    I have to confirm, the terminators move at a borderline annoying speed, would it kill anyone to add a goddamn speed slider in the goddamn menu?
    At least you can order several around at once to save time, but it makes me cringe every time a termie takes 5 full seconds to turn 180 degrees.
    The controls aren't the best, but they can be gotten used to. Misclicks sometimes happen, but there's always the undo button to save your ass.
    There's no free camera look, it only rotates at a set angle. There's a small PiP shoulder mounted camera view which is a nice (if useless gimmick).
    We also get an ackshun camera whenever a unit scores a kill. Pretty satisfying to watch genestealers get ripped apart by the autocannon this way.

    When it comes to audio, video and the general atmosphere, I have to say, I was pretty surprised. Terminators sound the way you would expect them to, they spew out occassional one-liners about the emprah, machine spirits, purging xenos and the like.
    Schorched genestealers scream satisfyingly. Only the guy narrating the mission briefings feels wooden at times.
    Surprisingly, there is no music on a mission (only during briefing and in the menus) You're left with a very delicate ambient sound of humming machinery and echoing terminator footsteps, until shit hits the fan and the ir is filled with bolters singing and shrieking tyranids.
    Atmosphere wise, they did a pretty decent job in my opinion.
    Graphics are solid, for what it's worth. The hulk corridors look pretty same-ish (but there are some nice details here and there)... though that was expected. Go watch some screenshots, it looks exactly like in the pictures.

    So, how does it play? Like I said, my most recent point of reference is alien assault. Don't know too much about the tabletop. In my opinion it plays better, but at the same time seems much easier. I managed to finish the two missions I attepted today with no casualties on my first try. I'm calling it a day for now, but I do hope it picks up soon. Main campaign is only 12 missions long, so I would feel cheated if a 27 quid game would only last me for two days worth of gaming. You'll probably tell me to man up and play on hard... unfortunately, I dislike timed turns with a passion (which are mandatory for hard difficulty). No one's gonna hurrt me around in my freaking turn based game, though I dunno, maybe that's how it was meant to be played originally.
    So far, the mission objectives feel pretty varied and interesting. Not bad for an all-corridor setting.
    Anyways, my main gripe with AA was how random it felt. Somehow SH makes me feel better, as it lists all the die rolls, bonuses and requirements to succeed.
    I've yet to encounter any show-stopping bugs at this point.

    My verdict at the moment is that it doesn't feel worth the asking price. It has its flaws, but is not a bad game.
    Multiplayer and scenario editor may be its saving grace, though I'm thinking there's only so much you can squeeze out of the uniform hulk corridors.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  5. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    It took a while but I knew someone would eventually post a review that didn't jerk off to the board game every other sentence. So at most 75% off sale after a price adjustment?
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Bluebottle Erudite Patron

    Bluebottle
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,182
    Dead State Wasteland 2
    So, sounds pretty much like Blood Bowl, then? Bad coding and rushed low budget job doesn't totally take away from something based on a solid, fun rule set.

    Or is it worse?
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    23,300
    Location:
    Copenhagen
  8. InspectorRumpole Prophet

    InspectorRumpole
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,192
    Isn't Blood Bowl 10 times deeper strategically than Space Hulk though? (asking really, because i've never played Space Hulk)
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    23,300
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    No clue. Was just speaking from a principle perspective. Blood Bowl is still - after 20 patches and two expansions - a relatively broken game.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. spectre Arcane

    spectre
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,532
    It has a distinct boardgamey feel, with the added bonus of the action camera, sounds and music. That was their goal apparently, and I have to say it works.
    Like I said before, I don't want to draw any far-reaching conclusions, being three missions into the campaign at the moment, but thus far it seems that the pinnacle of strategic depth in space hulk is positioning the terminators on overwatch so as to maximize the number of shots fired at the approaching genestealers, and walling off corridors with the flamer. Not that it's hard to do, as the AI has yet to surprise me with any sort of tactical feat. As a matter of fact, I noticed that it has trouble working the system and spotting obvious weaknesses in my defense... which I believe is what playing genestealers is all about. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the game showed its true potential in multiplayer, as all board games do.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Misconnected Savant

    Misconnected
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    587
    Broken is far too strong a word. It lacks polish and has a crap AI, but other than that, it's 99.5% there.

    SH also has crap AI and lacks (even more) polish, but in my experience it is 100% there.

    As for which is the deeper strategy game, the answer is quite definitely BB. But they're very different games. BB wont scratch your SH itch, and vice versa.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  12. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    23,300
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    If we disregard rules functionality and flashy graphics, FUMBBL is still a better game. That is pretty fucking embarrasing.

    We still haven't had one Codex league where less than 5-7 games haven't ended because of the shitty client, and those are just the gamestoppers.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. InspectorRumpole Prophet

    InspectorRumpole
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,192
    Thanks, thought as much.
    I've never tried SH, and looking in from the outside, i have to say it doesn't look very interesting strategically to me. Guess i don't have the itch.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    But isn't well over 90% of games on the market has crap a.I? I haven't played that many recent strategy games that had strong a.i and wonder why people keeps bringing it up like it is going to change and studios will actually put resources into polishing the a.i.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. spectre Arcane

    spectre
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,532
    Well, in this case I'm not really asking for a strong AI, I'm merely asking for the AI to have any sort of plan. I don't know if it's because the ruleset favors the Termies too much, or I am that good (unlikely), but thus far the AI does a great job rushing a 3x3 section with two guys on overwatch guarding it. So far whenever I lose a guy it's because of fudged die roll, and I've yet to retry the mission due to reasons other than a crash. Maybe I should have enabled the timer (iirc the original game has an hourglass to rush the player), but this wouldn't change the fact that the ai seems unable to work the system in any meaningful way. To add insult to injury, the game supposedly uses the orignal maps that came with the boardgame box which, I suspect, are pretty well known, so it wouldn't kill anybody to teach the AI some common tactics.

    Also, 90% of everything may be shit, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with it and stay silent. Civilization, Total War and Expeditions Conquistador can put up an AI that doesn't embarass itself most of the time... I expect the same out of guys who claim that they want to make a Jagged Alliance game.
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Misconnected Savant

    Misconnected
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    587
    I believe there's general agreement the Sin of Damnation mission design mostly favours the 'Stealer player.

    The AI doesn't seem to understand how to use the Marine player's AP/CP.

    Killing the Termies is all about draining those points, which typically means forcing one to turn 180 or walk backwards, and coming at it from at least 2 directions. Which typically means you spend your 1 Stealer Blips as you get them, to harass and slow the Termies and buy time to figure out which 3'ish entry points to flood with 3 Stealer Blips, and to buy time to get all the blips you need. And you typically do this multiple times, once for each Termie you need to face-fuck to death (just like Alien, except 'Stealers get you preggers).

    Hear, hear!
     
    ^ Top  
  17. spectre Arcane

    spectre
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,532
    So, I beat the notorious mission no.6. When I moved the librarian to the exit point, the game interpreted it as though I lost him and resulted in a failure. Which felt as a flap in the face as I spent a good hour to solve it for no casualties. Yay.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Bluebottle Erudite Patron

    Bluebottle
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,182
    Dead State Wasteland 2
    There's still a fair amount of game breakers, especially if you're playing in online leagues. What makes it worse is that the core coding team apparently left Cyanide, and those left working on it are so unfamiliar with the code base that patching it is pretty much infeasible for them. This is one of the reasons they're putting out BB2 (beyond the obvious that it's the only game they've got that sells, and they might as well milk that baby for all its worth).
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    Fixed for u and only reason why I won't cross out the last one is because I have yet to play the game. Actually no one really puts up with anything, more like people just choose to be ignorant of the flaws of the game and people wonder why the industry is in this state of low quality titles being pumped out like clockwork.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Messages:
    21,908
    Codex 2012
    Link plz?
     
    ^ Top  
  21. spectre Arcane

    spectre
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,532
    Tomo pls.... I'm not arguing that Civ or Total War has good AI, I'm merely stating that at least these two games know how to work the system, as in they'll play to win, if able, and have an occassional moment of clarity every now and then, that's something I've yet to experience in Space Hulk, as it seems to run on very simplistic routines - pick a target, flood the closest corridor with genestealers. 6 missions in and I've yet to see it try anything close to a coordinated attack from multiple sides. Yes, Space Hulk makes Total War and Civ AI look really good by comparison imo.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    22,095
    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Right now I just wish the AI did not reveal blips on the very next turn after they spawn.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Dr Tomo Learned

    Dr Tomo
    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    In a library near you
    Never intended this to be an argument over a.i, just pointing out the unreliability of your review when it comes to a.i when you cited those games. You aren't and won't be the only one that I point this out too when people makes reviews on a.i in any strategy game which they use bad examples like many of the reviewers from the more main stream gaming press. Either way I am dropping the subject.

    I appreciate that you are explaining some of the simple routines though in this post as it gives info for me to use my personal experience to make a judgement on a.i. With the some of the info you have given me it seems a bit disappointing and at minimum a price drop / 75% sale looks to be right in my opinion, unless there is something that you believe is a major positive.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. spectre Arcane

    spectre
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,532
    Yeah, I should have elaborated on the AI comparison a bit more, you're right, though I felt the message I tried to get across was clear: the AI is not the challenge, single, bad die rolls and how you deal with them is.
    But, it wasn't that much of a review, let's be honest, it was first impressions at best. For a full review, I'd first have to complete the full game (which is unlikely until they patch mission 6) - that's basic integrity :)

    If you're asking for a major positive, I'd say it captures the space hulk feel quite well. The corridors are foreboding, the models look like they should, the audio is consistent in style with what you know from, say, Dawn of War.
    Fried tyranids scream like they should, blood splatters and dead bodies litter the corridor. It all looks low budget but is decent craftsmanship.
    Like I said, I'm not too familiar with the boardgame, but it seems that it is quite faithful to it, and it does have a nice, boardgamey feel, so that may be added value for fans.
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Misconnected Savant

    Misconnected
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    Messages:
    587
    Can't remember, but go ask nicely at Teardown's forums and I'm sure someone will help you out.

    EDIT: As Spectre said the new SH is very, very consistent with the boardgame. Marines don't lose their AP if you don't spend them all in one go, and 'Stealer entry points can't be locked down by Marines, but that's the notable differences.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.