New Total War game: Warhammer

[Blaine]

This will be the first TW I don't buy shortly after release. I've finally learned my lesson.

I don't expect TW games to be perfect, but I expect a strategy layer that is more than an afterthought with one or two gimmicks that serve only to set the scene for tactical battles. If the strategy layer is a hamster wheel, there's little reason to care about the results of tactical battles.

Yeah, well, now you're just talking crazy talk!

I too wish for a marriage of the compleat 4X game with the compleat intricate tactical battlefield game. Just about every 4x game I've ever played abstracts/simplifies the tactical combat to some degree, whereas intricate squad or army tactics games typically have cursory or even nonexistent extra-tactical management and strategizing. I definitely agree that when commanding entire armies, a proper simulation of the overall strategy of the campaign is pretty important if you want to LARP Alexander.

Maybe mods will fix it if it's lacking. Still, it's enough for me if the strategic choices available are 1.) varied, 2.) present you with difficult and inobvious decisions, and 3.) the weight of those decisions have real impact.

 

[Makabb]

It's warscape. All you niggas are dreaming, especially you, Makabb. It's a piece of shit.

I haven't bought rome 2 nor attila and shogun 2 4 years after release on -90% and this looks playable so i have no regrets.

 

[Zewp]

Preload is only 10GB. Isn't that a bit small even if compressed? I'm pretty sure both Shogun 2 and Rome 2 were much bigger.

 

[Mazisky]

Never played Total war, should i start with this? Reviews says it's more focused on tactical then strategic, so maybe can be more suitable for a beginner like me

 

[Blaine]

Never played Total war, should i start with this? Reviews says it's more focused on tactical then strategic, so maybe can be more suitable for a beginner like me

Medieval II might be the best starting point. It's considered by many to be the overall best game in the series and has the nicest graphics of pre-Warscape TW games, which is helpful if you enjoy watching close-ups of soldiers slaughtering each other.

Warscape is a graphics engine that causes controversy because... well, just Google it, if you're interested. Suffice it to say that, graphically, people want to see realistic cavalry charges (rather than coming to a too-sudden halt), infantry smashing into each other and mixing it up fluidly, etc. There's been a certain element of "come to a stop and attack one other guy at the front rank of the army you're fighting," clipping issues, improper/nonexistent collision, and other complaints about Warscape in recent years.

Yeah, somehow, they've managed to fuck up smashing a bunch of soldiers into each other. This video showcases very good examples of Warscape engine woes:



From what I've read, Total Warhammer has been developed by a veteran team at CA and not the bunch of clowns who developed Rome 2 and Attila (which I didn't play).

Note, the AI has been pretty stupid and exploitable in certain ways in most of the TW games, including the ones I haven't played, again according to what I've read. It's supposed to be much improved in Total Warhammer.

 

[Steve]

Never played Total war, should i start with this? Reviews says it's more focused on tactical then strategic, so maybe can be more suitable for a beginner like me

Just pick the era that interests you the most and go with that. Rome1 and Medieval 2 are considered the best ones because of the sheer amount of quality mods they both have. Medieval 2 has an excellent Warhammer mod.
The series have been in steady decline after Medieval 2 with the exception of Shogun 2 and it's excellent Fall of the samurai standalone expansion.

I'd recommend not preordering any TW game as their launches can be disastrous, Rome 2 was unplayable for a year and even today it's still very subpar. The chaos DLC bonus stays for a week after release so it'd be stupid to not wait for user reviews at least.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

This will be the first TW I don't buy shortly after release. I've finally learned my lesson.

I don't expect TW games to be perfect, but I expect a strategy layer that is more than an afterthought with one or two gimmicks that serve only to set the scene for tactical battles. If the strategy layer is a hamster wheel, there's little reason to care about the results of tactical battles.

So what exactly is so bad about strategic layer compared to previous games? From what I've seen at least the UI seems to be developed by humans for humans, which instantly makes the whole experience much better than R2.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Technical issues are minor negative for not buying TW game,the design after Empire is where even if the game runs 4k flawlessly on toasters day one ,it would still be shit game.After watching some retards on Twitch with press copies it looked like modded Rome2.

 

[Trash]

From what I've read, Total Warhammer has been developed by a veteran team at CA and not the bunch of clowns who developed Rome 2 and Attila (which I didn't play).

Attila is actually pretty good. The world is in decline, people are on the move, the superpowers grow weaker instead of stronger and it feels more like a struggle for survival than one for dominance. I enjoyed it quite a bit. It has the same engine as Rome 2 but is a far cry from the mess that game was.

All the positive reviews and forum posts about Warhammer have rekindled my interest somewhat. Perhaps just curiosity on my part. Going to wait for release and see what the general consensus is. Amazed that this might even turn out well. Everything seemed to point towards another subpar game with more railroading and messy mechanics. Perhaps it still is. Will see.

 

[Makabb]

Anti aliasing is the FPS killer.

 

[Mazisky]

Antialiasing is the FPS killer in any game.

Antialiasing first, shadow quality\number second and V-sync are the most fps killer ever, always, any game.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Attila is actually pretty good. The world is in decline, people are on the move, the superpowers grow weaker instead of stronger and it feels more like a struggle for survival than one for dominance. I enjoyed it quite a bit. It has the same engine as Rome 2 but is a far cry from the mess that game was.

Yeah, it is undoubtedly improved over R2 in most aspects (apart from even more broken and stupid naval combat) and yet it's still basically the same experience gameplay wise. So when I tried playing it after completing a full campaign of R2 I dropped it out of boredom after like 10h and have absolutely no desire to get back.

They should definitely try to make different factions feel at least a bit unique and ...gasp... streamline the campaign a bit, so that it doesn't take grinding 40h for pointless objectives like "own 50 regions and gazilion units that you don't need". WTW seems to be aiming at exactly that so if it succeeds then it is definitely an improvement in my book.

 

[Blaine]

The Warscape-induced infantry mechanics issues certainly are a potential disappointment. I'm having a devil of a time trying to find good third-party Total Warhammer Let's Plays with close-ups of infantry combat, but what I have seen sure as shit looks better than Rome 2.

Given that Shogun 2 was my last TW game, one that was developed competently and that cleverly disguised the weaknesses of the Warscape engine, I think I can be forgiven for not realizing how utterly shit it is. God fucking damn, Rome 2 looks bad.

If you don't care as much what the zoomed-in battles look like, though, it's probably not much of an issue.

In one of the videos, I noticed that only about seven or eight Dwarf slayers at a time can attack a giant. Lost opportunity there, if you ask me; giant-killer units should have been able to climb on top of giant units' backs, arms, and so on. Perhaps that's asking too much, though.

 

[Rahdulan]

Anti aliasing is the FPS killer.

For all the graphics whoring is there even a point? I mean sure, it looks nice if you stop to smell the roses but most of the time you're playing zoomed out as much as possible to actually see what's going on. Reminds of me pointless shit like general lip-sync in Rome 2 and whatnot. Who cares after the novelty of seeing it for the first few couple of times wears off?

 

[Blaine]

For all the graphics whoring is there even a point? I mean sure, it looks nice if you stop to smell the roses but most of the time you're playing zoomed out as much as possible to actually see what's going on. Reminds of me pointless shit like general lip-sync in Rome 2 and whatnot. Who cares after the novelty of seeing it for the first few couple of times wears off?

Well, you can watch your own replays and zoom in as much as you like, although in past TW games the "replays" are actually fresh recreations of the battle controlled by the computer but using your inputs, so they may not turn out quite the same as the actual battle you fought. I doubt Total Warhammer will be any different.

Yeah, it's dumb. I assume there's some technical reason for it, like replays taking up a bazillion GB or something if they were actually saved blow-by-blow.

 

[Zewp]

Shogun 2 was pretty fun to watch close-up. Especially after the gore pack, when things got really bloody.

I heard that Warhammer will supposedly not let individual units fight 1-on-1 and instead just swing their weapons around at random. I hope that's not the case.

 

[Endlösung]

Anti aliasing is the FPS killer.

'Unit size' at 2:11 as gfx option is kinda lel. Units that touch each other used to engage, now they dont? Pick small units, have easier game.

 

[varangos]

I heard that Warhammer will supposedly not let individual units fight 1-on-1 and instead just swing their weapons around at random. I hope that's not the case.

in total war games before rome 2 (or shogun2 dont remember) individual units didnt lock in combat with one enemy unit but it was random,one unit could trade blows with 3-4 enemy units or not it was random and a bit more realistic.
it seems they listened to the outroar and change it in this game.

go to 20.00

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, well, that's we've got today. I've noticed a very distinct pattern since around 2010 (maybe a tad earlier): developers choose their one engine that they perhaps tweak a bit each year, assemble their suite of developer tools that they become comfortable with, and then they pretty much just refuse to change or adapt to anything else for the next 5-10 years.

Write a new engine from scratch? We can't do that! We fired most of our senior programmers in order to save money. Now buy our dozen or so $5-10 DLCs, please.

In any event, the genesis of the Warscape engine is pretty obvious: They wanted HD CINEMATIC MOCAP BATTLE ANIMATIONS. It's the same sort of motivation that caused RPG publishers to demand that developers implement real-time systems into their games around the late 1990s, so there'd be more ACSHUN to draw in the shooter crowd.

 

[varangos]

thats why is a good thing i guess that they got warhammer,cause i cant even imagine the horrors of warscape in a 20th century gunpowder game,even in empire warscape was completely incapable to manage a gunpowder era game.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

What?The projectiles are the one of the few things in Warscape that works and looks good.Did you even watch the video you posted,problems are melee combat,stats,annoying(broken up until Fall of the Samurai) line of sight and retarded formation juggling/bugginess(somewhat fixed after Empire).The engine was build for ranged combat after all.

 

[varangos]

It was build but failed miserably

 

[Zewp]

Yeah, that unit clumping thing is a massive fuck-up. Totally broke Rome 2 at times. You had to micromanage unit movement and routes to make sure they're not getting stuck behind another unit. It was especially a nuisance in fights where you were up against stronger enemies and had to rely on sheer numbers to win.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

It was build but failed miserably

Are you mental or just posting random videos without even watching them.Melee is fucked ,but projectiles always worked pretty well and looked gorgeous in all Warscape TW's.The guy even says it in the videos.

 

[varangos]

Lol