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New Total War game: Warhammer

Steve

Augur
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
359
Enjoying my vampire counts campaign a lot. I declared war against bloated Empire, then chaos came and started wrecking their shit, then out of the blue Greenskins asked me if they could join the war as well. Karl Franz is having a really bad time.

I wish the raise dead skill would be more useful in mid to end game, skeleto warriors and zombies don't really hold up after you've conquered the entire sylvania region.
 

Disgruntled

Savant
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
400
Played for a bit now, its about what I expected from what I saw in streams and reviews.
The game is certainly solid as far as fun is concerned and hasnt shown me any deal breakers from my early campaign foray.

That said, it does come across as a stripped down installment which will really need those patches, dlc and expansions to make something amazing. The streamlining of campaign management features has not been compensated enough with faction flavor and character progression imo.
Theres also a lack of depth with building trees and im not a fan of those basic icons, i like looking at a little picture of a building dammit not symbolic representations. Unfortunately the simplification also went into battles, we have hero magic and abilities but that doesnt mean formations should be cut down to 2 options with units not caring about spear or shield walls.

There are a lot of other small details that feel lacking, where they've either cut corners or missed an opportunity to emphasize a particular faction's way of doing things. Oh and how can I forget sieges, I suspect they took a shit on them more to save on modelling all the exotic locations than giving a simpler time to AI, a shame either way when something as simple as a hill top would do better in representing wall-less settlements or a copy-paste inland city map instead of 1-2 walls.

Im playing Orcs on VH/VH which is providing a challenge, although aggravatingly a lot is still down to AI buffs and arbitrary player penalties. They havent quite balanced everything, one small thing i noticed is that some experience is a bit too generous. Chasing down and autoresolving an easy routed army seems just as rewarding in exp as taking on a challenging large scale battle. Thankfully things like that, agent spam, unit power imbalances, certain underwhelming magic spells etc is all fixable in patches.

Its interesting to contrast this to Attila. What I really liked about Attila is that it ticked all the boxes, there wasnt any huge gaps, the map was big, plenty of things to do and conquer as time went on, the various campaign variables and inner faction heirarchies were there, there was plenty of choices and units, factions, sea battles, sieges, agents. The battles were fairly fun with workable AI and balance. I couldnt pick out a fault that really let me down. But, at the same time it lacked some oomph, I think as a TW vet ive been there and done that too many times for Attila to keep me coming back and trying to conquer olden times Europe.

But here comes Warhammer and its switched. This game has that X factor. Brand new setting, cool heroes and leveling, magic and nice loot to collect and use. Im excited to get my lords growing from strength to strength like an RPG game, I love the faction variety and wild monsters, flyers and wizards.
Its just frustrating that they have brought all this into the TW genre but (unnecessarily imo) taken out a bunch of existing mechanics. As it is right now I would only recommend buying this game if you're really itching to play and dont have anything to occupy yourself with till the next standalone. As most TW games, this one will only get better over time with the patches and added content but whats really critical for me is that they flesh out the base of the game. Im hoping they look over all the factions, not just new ones, adding extra depth and detail as they go. This could be the best TW ever but if CA/Sega rest on their laurels it will have those niggling oversights that ruin its potential.
 

Blaine

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So uh, yeah. I vaguely recall that something like this (unit size sometimes dramatically impacting mechanics) has manifested in previous Total Wars, but in Total Warhammer it's going to be exceptionally problematic.

0852acb8ed.png

3c64a485a6.png
 

Blaine

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Holy shit, I feel like I just got a visit from a magic fairy.

I updated my GPU drivers (I'd already updated them last week, and was reluctant to do so again right away in case of rollbacks and so on), and then I used Nvidia's "Optimize Settings" option for Total Warhammer just to see what would happen.

What happened is that the game now runs far above 60 FPS for me, everywhere, on ultra settings. I made sure to turn unit sizes down to "large" again, though. The biggest difference I can see is that the Optimize feature checked "Use Unlimited Video Memory," which most forum posters said to avoid, but maybe if you have a Super Saiyan GPU you should try it. Of course, there are a lot of hidden settings that you can only access with third-party tools.

Game runs like a fucking 2008 game for me, it's retardedly smooth. Thanks, G-Sync!
 

Raghar

Arcane
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Joined
Jul 16, 2009
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That's one hell of a mistake.
That's not mistake, that's correct design. If you increased unit sizes, and it didn't increased number of giants to two to compensate for larger unit sizes, it behaves as designed. Unit sizes were mainly for lowering strain on low end PCs. Technically large unit sizes should require larger costs to train, and larger upkeep to compensate. And units should move slower, to simulate slow downs on some types of large armies.
 

Blaine

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What I'd like to know is how is how the one remaining settlement of the "default" Greenskin faction that was so out-of-the-way it escaped my notice has two full doomstacks and recenty got a WAAAAUGH! without laying waste to anything. It's in the corner of the map, sandwiched between the settlements I retook from the "white" Greenskin faction and the last two white Greenskin settlements. It's conceivable they scrounged every last cent they could get to slowly rebuild their legendary lords' armies, but....

Perhaps there's some advanced ability and/or technology that gives a free WAAAAUGH!!! under certain circumstances.

It's getting a bit bogged down at this point (~ turn 90), with grumbling tall weak humans to the west, Chaos prodding around to the north, and the miraculously resurgent Greenskins producing magic doomstacks in their crumbling post-earthquake Haitian villages. Despite the swath of pillaging I cut through vamp territory, they fight on, against the one Dwarfen ally I haven't confederated because I'd prefer he serve as a shitty meatshield... the vamps are finally getting the best of him, though.

Come on, humans. Finish off the vamps, you tall, smooth-assed pieces of shit.

So, to sum up Dwarfs:

+ outstanding defenders, incl. Underway campaign map movement which provides defensive bonuses
+ very good at laying siege
+ excellent and powerful ranged options
+ relatively easy to ally with other Dwarf clans compared to other factions
+ hardy and with high morale

= Book of Grudges is interesting, and later on you can easily live with max severity if you don't care to follow it

- unbelievably slow, it truly has to be experienced to be believed
- even basic units are relatively expensive and non-expendable
- agents somewhat less effective due to reduced range (see "unbelievably slow")
- no cavalry (see "unbelievably slow", and yes, "slow" merits three entries)
- no magic; limited abilities/runes, effective enough but nothing compared to Von Nukestein

The larger your empire and the later the game, the harder Dwarfs' slowness will be to deal with unless you can afford to build 12 doomstacks. I have seven, and I feel extremely stretched out despite all my territory being totally consolidated.
 
Last edited:
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Holy shit, I feel like I just got a visit from a magic fairy.

I updated my GPU drivers (I'd already updated them last week, and was reluctant to do so again right away in case of rollbacks and so on), and then I used Nvidia's "Optimize Settings" option for Total Warhammer just to see what would happen.

What happened is that the game now runs far above 60 FPS for me, everywhere, on ultra settings. I made sure to turn unit sizes down to "large" again, though. The biggest difference I can see is that the Optimize feature checked "Use Unlimited Video Memory," which most forum posters said to avoid, but maybe if you have a Super Saiyan GPU you should try it. Of course, there are a lot of hidden settings that you can only access with third-party tools.

Game runs like a fucking 2008 game for me, it's retardedly smooth. Thanks, G-Sync!

What's your GPU?
 
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Also, people reported that it's nvidia drivers breaking performance for them or inferior processors. Some people with the 980 and 970 could barely get 30-40 fps while others got steady 60-70 with the same features enabled. (ultra) Some of those reported running older drivers, like the one from december 2015, so try that.
 

rvm1975

Educated
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Sep 14, 2013
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95
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Ukraine
Also, people reported that it's nvidia drivers breaking performance for them or inferior processors. Some people with the 980 and 970 could barely get 30-40 fps while others got steady 60-70 with the same features enabled. (ultra) Some of those reported running older drivers, like the one from december 2015, so try that.

Issues Being Resolved with Total War: Warhammer
NVIDIA is working closely with Creative Assembly to resolve issues discovered in
Total War: Warhammer during testing. To ensure the best possible experience, update
to new drivers as they're released and download the latest game update

you should rollback to WHQL 364.72 if your drivers 368.22 WHQL
 

mutonizer

Arcane
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Sep 4, 2014
Messages
1,041
Well damn, I just cannot into Chaos or something. Conquered/Confedereated pretty much all Empire lands with Karl and got Vampire counts as vassals but them fucking Chaos just keep fucking things up. I think it's because I just have too much land and it's a fucking nightmare to defend. There's also a real strategy to buildings and proper region management in order to get all the proper units buildings in the proper areas and I fucked that up a bit as well. Add onto that Dwarves getting destroyed by Waaghs and Bretonnians being self-hate assholes, I'm pretty much alone up there now...

...Lotta fun :)




As a side note; got a Nvidia 960 2GB myself and I'm glad latest drivers don't give me any issue (368.22). Everything on high pretty much.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,182
A guy wrote the following in a Steam review:

There is some sort of opaque weight of numbers stuff in the coding that prevents a smaller force from winning, ever. period. A smaller army incurs debuffs that stack in accordance to the size difference, preventing you from winning any battles that involve you having more than a couple units less than the enemy.

Is this actually true?
A smaller force will never win in auto resolve only, if you take the fight to battlefiedl and play clever its doable. Just keep high ground and be sure to target their generals.Also a good use of spells can change the outcome drastically.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
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Jun 15, 2009
Messages
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Also, people reported that it's nvidia drivers breaking performance for them or inferior processors. Some people with the 980 and 970 could barely get 30-40 fps while others got steady 60-70 with the same features enabled. (ultra) Some of those reported running older drivers, like the one from december 2015, so try that.
Works flawlessly on my AMD radeon 380 , 60+ on ultra , drivers number i am using are old 15.3 drivers(11/29/2015) as they are the most stable i could find.If that can help someone with performance trouble, i ran CC cleaner and guru3D uninstaller to be sure before.
 
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Also, people reported that it's nvidia drivers breaking performance for them or inferior processors. Some people with the 980 and 970 could barely get 30-40 fps while others got steady 60-70 with the same features enabled. (ultra) Some of those reported running older drivers, like the one from december 2015, so try that.
Works flawlessly on my AMD radeon 380 , 60+ on ultra , drivers number i am using are old 15.3 drivers(11/29/2015) as they are the most stable i could find.If that can help someone with performance trouble, i ran CC cleaner and guru3D uninstaller to be sure before.

Radeon is far better optimized than nvidia for total war games, always has been. Meanwhile you find people with 980Ti complaining about 20 fps in battle in Attila and Warhammer.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,182
Also, people reported that it's nvidia drivers breaking performance for them or inferior processors. Some people with the 980 and 970 could barely get 30-40 fps while others got steady 60-70 with the same features enabled. (ultra) Some of those reported running older drivers, like the one from december 2015, so try that.
Works flawlessly on my AMD radeon 380 , 60+ on ultra , drivers number i am using are old 15.3 drivers(11/29/2015) as they are the most stable i could find.If that can help someone with performance trouble, i ran CC cleaner and guru3D uninstaller to be sure before.

Radeon is far better optimized than nvidia for total war games, always has been. Meanwhile you find people with 980Ti complaining about 20 fps in battle in Attila and Warhammer.

Thats odd, i had a 560 ti installed before , that was my previous card bought 4 years ago, i dont remember any slow down nor problem in previous total wars, except rome 2 at release, but everyone had problem.
 

Lone Wolf

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
3,703
GTX770, here, and on High everything is extremely smooth (Ultra unit sizes).

Also, the Vampires are a lot of fun. The shambling horde of doom, with a few real heavy hitters for good measure.

Using them in combat seems to be about tying up their centre with your fodder, and carefully allocating the Varghulfs/Vargheists/Crypt Horrors to where you want to disrupt their line, while simultaneously running Black Knights into their rear. The Vargheists must be a handful to deal with, from the other side. Fast, powerful and... flying.

United Eastern and Western Sylvania by Turn 40, so now I've got to think about my next move. Their economy is a bit of a mixed bag, with few easy ways to money. Though with Sylvania united you can afford two doomstacks comfortably (i.e. while retaining a small surplus).

One issue, though, is that your main legendary lord has, like, five separate upgrade branches. You've really got to prioritize. I've opted for leadership/combat.

Tried Chaos as well, with Suneater as my LL. He's a real handful in combat. But... not feeling that campaign. One loss, early on, and you're pretty much done. And the other factions upgrade their forces much faster than you (every building requires a population surplus of 1-4, with many of the important ones requiring 4), meaning I'm going up against Longbeards with Chaos Marauders. Once you've crawled out of that hole (probably by Turn 60-70), I'm sure the campaign gets a lot smoother.
 

Blaine

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Is this actually true?

No, it's blatantly untrue. There are screenshots on the official/unofficial forums, /r/totalwar, and elsewhere showing armies winning heroic victories when outnumbered nearly 2:1. I've won heroic victories when outnumbered and outmanned by 1.5 to 1 (when taking the out-manning into account).

There's some weird-ass behavior with auto-resolve, though. In a couple of tough battles that I retried several times in an effort to improve my tactics, I've been surprised to see that winning close victories, or even decisive ones, is possible with auto-resolve when I really, very sincerely doubt it would be possible manually.

For example, one time I fought some greenskins 35 to 40 in their favor; they not only had more units, but more advanced units overall, and plenty of cavalry to flank with. There wasn't enough infantry to protect the front, sides, and rear of my large quantity of ranged units, nor enough time for said ranged units to weaken the enemy enough (plenty, but not enough), and most of my infantry was basic including some Miners units compared to advanced Greenskin heavy infantry. Falling into disarray was pretty much inevitable.

BUT, when I auto-resolved, I got a victory, and nearly all of my infantry were missing nearly exactly half of their health. Clearly, auto-resolve isn't actually simulated normally,
 
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What's your GPU?

980 Ti 6GB; once the best, but as of this month, no longer.

Can't complain, hardware creep has slowed way, way down in the last 2-3 years.

Like I wrote above, even those with 980Ti run the game like shit while older gen, inferior AMD gpus max it out at ultra with no fps issues, same with attila. When a 970 user gets 50 fps in battle zoomed in with everything set to ultra and a 980Ti user barely 30 it means that someone didn't do their work.
 

Blaine

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Like I wrote above, even those with 980Ti run the game like shit while older gen, inferior AMD gpus max it out at ultra with no fps issues, same with attila. When a 970 user gets 50 fps in battle zoomed in with everything set to ultra and a 980Ti user barely 30 it means that someone didn't do their work.

Yeah, but for some reason, the game now runs extremely smoothly for me. G-Sync might have something to do with it.

People have reported their FPS jumping wildly, up to 200 FPS, so perhaps where high-end cards are concerned that's a factor, one that G-Sync may eliminate.
 

Taskityo

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Was kind of looking forward to this, since I stopped following this series with the disappoint that was Rome 2, hoping CA would add more immersive depth, but for whatever reason they skimped on some areas or just simply removed features in TW:W. From watching some vids, the sieges for example are oddly dumbed down - TW for me hit the high point of where they were going with combat in Rome: Total War and Medieval: Total War 2 (4 sides to defend + multi-tier defense, where the A.I. was smart enough to overwhelm/attack multiple sides). Sieges were steadily some of my favorite combat moments in the oldest titles. After that, it's been one strange design choice after another, AKA decline and doesn't make me too enthused for future total wars :\.

Some steam reviews pointing out issues here and there.

Also I'm surprised how 'clean' breaks in a wall looks in Total War: Warhammer, compared to decades favorites like the first Medieval TW and Rome TW:

Warhammer
UaVvVVN.png



Rome 1
34_rometotalwar35.jpg



Med 1
Medieval-_Total_War_Sieges.jpg


Med 1
44766_full.jpg

All in all, from what I'm reading/seeing, I think I'll be skipping this one until there is a very steep discount. I know for sure I wouldn't spend much time with it as past games and probably be bored of the Sieges pretty quick to spend a full $60... man.
 

Blaine

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Yeah, I've been reading through various Total War forums, and there are mixed reactions to the siege changes and simplifications made to the campaign mechanics. Some think that the "streamlined" features are more appropriate for a fantasy universe in which food stores and sanitation are nonentities for example, and that the added features (monstrous and flying units, very unique factions, magic, elaborate and diverse lord and hero skill trees, equipment, and abilities, etc.) make up for it.

The consensus seems to be that this is a "branch" of TW more appropriate for Warhammer, rather than a historical game, and that it's not the final, be-all direction of the entire series... although, I'm personally disinclined to touch Rome 2 or Attila with a ten-foot pole and will be sticking to Medieval II and Shogun 2 for the foreseeable future, unless CA manages to make another good historical TW someday.

Whether or not you should skip Total Warhammer depends primarily upon your preferences. For me, the most exciting and interesting thing about Total War is when two armies meet on the open field, and formations and maneuvering thereof. Smaller-sized armies are a plus, although those soon become unviable. Small skirmishes where you can win or lose decisively based on just a few decisions, that's good stuff. Yeah, the siege changes are puzzling and annoying. Also, combats should not end in 2 minutes. Everything dies too quickly.

If you love Warhammer or just fantasy in general and don't mind the removal/streamlining of certain features in exchange for others, it's worth getting, I think. Maybe not for full price if that's an issue, though.
 

BlackAdderBG

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Some steam reviews pointing out issues here and there.


This comment is pure gold.

"I've got more hours than you in TW overall, actually.I think this is a fine Total War game. Sure, it's dumbed down but that's so the Warhammer fans can get used to the series. I'm sure CA will implement more features in the next two expansions (considering they will form into one massive game).They had to get rid of some things in order to make all these non-copy pasta units for each faction. It would have probably strained their budget too much if they were to add everything from before and then all these unique things on top of that.If you don't like it, then that's fine. There's many more Total War titles out there and at least we'll still be getting historical ones if a fantasy setting isn't your cup of tea.Personally, I'm loving this. I haven't had this much fun in a Total War game since Shogun 2. Mods will only make it better."
 

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