New Total War game: Warhammer

[Galdred]

I need this. I need this not to suck. Please.

Me too, but the Total War series has lost its way for a looong time.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Me too, but the Total War series has lost its way for a looong time.

I dunno, Shogun 2 was pretty good. Arguably had the best gameplay in a Total War in a long ass time although they sacrificed a lot of the fluff and flavor. Being able to level generals up yourself ended up good for gameplay but broke my heart because I no longer ended up with fat bloodthirsty pedophiles leading my armies. Kinda seems it was an aberration though, given Rome 2.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

I dunno, Shogun 2 was pretty good. Arguably had the best gameplay in a Total War in a long ass time although they sacrificed a lot of the fluff and flavor. Being able to level generals up yourself ended up good for gameplay but broke my heart because I no longer ended up with fat bloodthirsty pedophiles leading my armies. Kinda seems it was an aberration though, given Rome 2.

Gameplay-wise I wouldn't even dare to say that, but if you mean battlefield-atmospheric-gobblegobble wise then yes. A lot of the tactics hinged on single unit fighting quality rather than breaking into the enemy formation such as in Rome 1 or morale shocks routing the enemy army as per Medieval 2 but if you were not into that kind of gameplay/tactics, then I have nothing against it. I believe the engine made it quite worse than it could be though and that's as non-subjective as I can get.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Nope, I was just talking mechanically. I thought Shogun 2's more pronounced rock paper scissors unit balance (With most factions fielding largely the same units) worked well for it since like you mentioned single unit fighting quality matters more. Getting upgrade weapons and armor for your guys is more important when it's apples to apples unit types instead of, say, Greek infantry fighting German infantry in Rome where they're not exactly the same basic unit. On top of that I thought the strategic map in Shogun 2 was a strong point since it had less open space to stomp around and had a lot of choke points and a few alternate routes and things. Was a slight step closer to the province-style movement while keeping the 3D strategic map they like now. I also recall the AI being surprisingly decent compared to most Total Wars, possibly because of the simplified rules and map in Shogun 2.

It is just a matter of taste of course but despite not being fond of Shogun 2's setting I thought it was one of the better games they've done in recent memory. Still didn't go wild on playing it though.

 

[A horse of course]

Nope, I was just talking mechanically. I thought Shogun 2's more pronounced rock paper scissors unit balance (With most factions fielding largely the same units) worked well for it since like you mentioned single unit fighting quality matters more. Getting upgrade weapons and armor for your guys is more important when it's apples to apples unit types instead of, say, Greek infantry fighting German infantry in Rome where they're not exactly the same basic unit. On top of that I thought the strategic map in Shogun 2 was a strong point since it had less open space to stomp around and had a lot of choke points and a few alternate routes and things. Was a slight step closer to the province-style movement while keeping the 3D strategic map they like now. I also recall the AI being surprisingly decent compared to most Total Wars, possibly because of the simplified rules and map in Shogun 2.

It is just a matter of taste of course but despite not being fond of Shogun 2's setting I thought it was one of the better games they've done in recent memory. Still didn't go wild on playing it though.

Whilst it certainly had a lot of positive points going for it, there were a number of drawbacks to S2 that honestly made it the least interesting (and my least played) game in the series. As you note, the setting is a major drawback because every unit, agent and culture is largely identical and there's very little draw to attempting the game with different factions - they're devoid of personality for anyone who doesn't have a certain amount of rudimentary knowledge of the Sengoku period. The map was also very limiting since every single playthrough involves fighting through identical areas each time. The Ikko-Ikki DLC or w/e and the krischan infuences added a smidgen of flavour, I suppose.

The mechanics of the campaign itself were also horribly "gamified" in the sense they were heavily scripted and bluntly designed to simply challenge the player rather than model interesting or coherent AI behaviour. The "Rumours of War" mechanics that hardcoded long-time allies to attack you for the lulz was irritating enough, but the "Realm Divide" system was the worst offense. Part of the problem is that despite being called "Total War", the series has never really gotten around the fact that fighting several battles per turn gets really goddamn boring and needs to be balanced with periods of stability and diplomatic/agent conflict to prevent the player from feeling burnt out. The RD feature really shat all over this by ensuring that not ony half the country and also your own allies would turn on you eventually, which is a comical representation of what actually happened and robbed the 2nd half of the campaign of the potential for entertaining diplomatic warfare. After one campaign, I simply stopped playing whenever I got anywhere near RD because the thought of playing multiple stacks-of-doom battles each turn made me cringe.

Conversely, the empire-management/campaign gameplay is pretty draining itself, which is something that only really became a problem from the original Rome and shift to the 3d campaign map. In S1/M1, the Risk-esque map makes moving around armies, agents and fleets a perfectly straight-forward activity with minimal screwing about. The 3d map adds a huge new dimension of strategic depth, but works best with short campaigns and small nations. This worked fairly well in S2, actually (until you reach latter stages) but is a huge chore in Rome 1/2 or indeed any TW campaign involving empire-management.

One of the things I thought S2 really did well was the food shortage system, though I know people criticized it for not working properly with the AI and requiring hidden bonuses to prevent them from starving their entire provinces to rebellion every five turns. I'm glad it stayed in R2.

 

[oscar]

If they'd done a Jap invasion of Korea expansion pack it would have been heaven. The solid AI of Shogun plus unit diversity and a really cool campaign.

- Early-mid campaign Japanese land advantage in muskets, morale and discipline tempered by a gradually improving Korean army in addition to Korean partisans (Righteous Army)
- Korean massive naval advantage with turtle ships making the delivery of reinforcements and supplies from Japan more difficult. Japanese naval forces forced to rely (as they historically managed) upon surprise and rapid boarding to win at sea.
- In lieu of Realm Divide a massive Ming intervention force arrives when you've captured enough of Korea and launches a grand counter-attack

 

[Icewater]

The solid AI of Shogun

No

cool idea, though

 

[Luka-boy]

So there are other ways of playing Shogun 2 other than starting Fall of the Samurai and never looking back?

Damn I love that expansion

 

[tuluse]

The mulitplayer aspect to Shogun 2 was also pretty good, but the ranking system basically sorted everyone into noobs and veterans, with very little middle ground. So you end up getting a huge jump in quality of opponent. Also, if you do reach the level to consistently play with other level 10 generals then take a break for a while and come back, you just end up getting wrecked.

But still good ideas in the multiplayer stuff.

 

[praetor]

If they'd done a Jap invasion of Korea expansion pack it would have been heaven. The solid AI of Shogun plus unit diversity and a really cool campaign.

- Early-mid campaign Japanese land advantage in muskets, morale and discipline tempered by a gradually improving Korean army in addition to Korean partisans (Righteous Army)
- Korean massive naval advantage with turtle ships making the delivery of reinforcements and supplies from Japan more difficult. Japanese naval forces forced to rely (as they historically managed) upon surprise and rapid boarding to win at sea.
- In lieu of Realm Divide a massive Ming intervention force arrives when you've captured enough of Korea and launches a grand counter-attack

there's a mod doing the Korean scenario... they managed to get pretty far, although last i read (a couple of months ago), new ships right now aren't possible

 

[Shannow]

I'll never get past people praising S2's battle gameplay. It was incredibly floaty and arcady. I also never noticed any good AI. For the most part is was "Throw all troops against me. Flank with cavalry."
And Rock/Paper/Scissors? Even if I considered it a good mechanic (which, in case of TW games, I do not), there was quite little of it going on. I'd simply make the bulk of my army up of those naginata guys(?) that are good against foot and horse. Problem solved.

But if you guys enjoyed that, you enjoyed it...

 

[oscar]

there's a mod doing the Korean scenario... they managed to get pretty far, although last i read (a couple of months ago), new ships right now aren't possible

No Ming sadly. These guys seem to have done a more comprehensive mod but no translation unfortunately

 

[praetor]

No Ming sadly. These guys seem to have done a more comprehensive mod but no translation unfortunately

considering the engine and the modding tools/resources available, what those STW2 guys already accomplished is almost a miracle (but yeah, it'll never be as good as it deserves/they want it to be because of the modding limitations of the engine )

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthre...9d5fba69a0d8197c65116a8&p=1369840#post1369840

Hi all,

Total War: WARHAMMER is official! Taking the series to a realm of brutal, high fantasy for the first time in its history, our rules have changed and with change comes war on a scale as yet unimagined.

The limitlessly deep and rich universe of Warhammer heralds a new era for Total War. Gigantic monsters, flying creatures, legendary heroes and storms of magical power take their place on the battlefield, alongside thousands of warriors clashing in real-time tactical battles.

In the turn-based campaign game, players will find the Old World an unforgiving and treacherous place, filled with endless war and cunning alliances alike. Whichever race you choose to play as and however you seek conquest, you will be faced with a conflict that threatens to tear the very fabric of reality asunder.

The first in an epic trilogy of titles, Total War: WARHAMMER will deliver hundreds of hours of absorbing gameplay. It will combine with two further standalone instalments and additional content packs to create the single largest Total War experience ever.

“We’ve always loved the Warhammer universe, and couldn’t wait to approach it with the same colossal scale and authenticity that has characterised our titles for the last 15 years,” said Total War: WARHAMMER Project Lead, Ian Roxburgh. “We’re bringing it to life in a way that nobody’s attempted before.”

Watch the announcement trailer, voiced by celebrated actor Steven Berkoff, http://youtu.be/7i4d3ignBNQ for just a taste of this forthcoming match made in gaming heaven.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Hm, looks like a TW game since Medieval II I'll actually play for real.

 

[Kem0sabe]

It will end up disappointing everyone as Total War games always do.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

CA can't make an engine that works for 2-dimensional battle between men and horse without bugging it to high heaven, and with questionable UI, in spite of 15 years of experience and them not really doing anything else.

Are you expecting them to be able to make an engine that can handle trolls, dragons, giants, flyers, magic etc. in a good or even mediocre way? No fucking chance. Maybe TW: Warhammer 2, third expansion, bugfixers mod ver. 5.47, will work serviceably. But before that? Try it before you buy it is a must here.

 

[Rahdulan]

I can't wait until everyone starts collectively looking back fondly on Mark of Chaos after this comes out.

Nice cinematic, for all that's worth these days.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

This game is going to be an utter fucking disaster on every conceivable level, and on levels currently beyond human comprehension.



I will be pre-ordering.

 

[tuluse]

I do wonder how they plan to handle the vastly different unit sizes and scale of battle compared to what they usually do. Their engine maxing out at about 2000 men per side while inadequate for what they usually simulate, will actually be overkill for warhammer I'd think (with apologies to LeStryfe79 ).

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

This better not using the ramshackle Warscape engine.

I expect 64-bit exclusivity and DX12 support from Day 1.

 

[Rahdulan]

That was fast.

 

[Tytus]

 

[Cyberarmy]

This game is going to be an utter fucking disaster on every conceivable level, and on levels currently beyond human comprehension.



I will be pre-ordering.

Edit: meh, only four races means 152 DLCs...

 

[Branm]

Only 4 races.....rofl....warhammer so deep and all they manage to put in are 4 races so they can charge you for the other 25 with $5-$10 DLC's