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Nioh 2

Silverfish

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There're quite a few things you can do with stamina management. First, stock up on sacred water. It speeds up ki regeneration and is easily the best consumable item for a first game. Stats can also make a huge difference. Skill boosts the amount of ki you get back on a pulse, and courage boosts ki regen at all times. If you don't want those stats (you're going for constitution and magic or whatever the case may be) use a yokai ability whenever you run out of stamina. Yokai skills don't cost stamina to use and your ki refills during the skill animation.
 

SumDrunkGuy

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There're quite a few things you can do with stamina management. First, stock up on sacred water. It speeds up ki regeneration and is easily the best consumable item for a first game. Stats can also make a huge difference. Skill boosts the amount of ki you get back on a pulse, and courage boosts ki regen at all times. If you don't want those stats (you're going for constitution and magic or whatever the case may be) use a yokai ability whenever you run out of stamina. Yokai skills don't cost stamina to use and your ki refills during the skill animation.

I've pumped most of my points into courage to hasten the stamina regen. Now does that shorten the time it takes for your stamina to begin regenerating, the regeneration speed, or both?

It's pretty jarring going from Elden Ring to this. In Elden Ring I never felt like I had to pay much attention to the stamina meter. Here you gotta watch it like a fucking hawk and it's the difference between life and death.
 

Silverfish

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I've pumped most of my points into courage to hasten the stamina regen. Now does that shorten the time it takes for your stamina to begin regenerating, the regeneration speed, or both?

So far as I'm aware, it only affects regen speed, not the window to start regen. One thing I forgot to mention earlier was that your choice of weapon can make a huge difference as well. Some weapons are ace at reducing opponents' ki, which can give you a lot of breathing room. Tonfas specialize in this, but I've always found them to be underwhelming overall. Axes are really good for this, especially in high stance, with good HP damage on top. Swords and hatchets are kind of weird suggestions, but both have easily unlocked skills (that don't require dojo missions) that damage enemy ki. Hatchets in particular are nasty early on in the game, since they can deplete ki easily, they can be thrown for a surprising amount of damage and their heavy attack in high stance has this weird tracking effect after a dodge roll.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Why does this thread only have 43 pages and is dead, while Dragon's Dogma's, Dark Souls 3 and Eldern Ring's are in the hunderds and still keep going?

Maybe because Nioh 2 feels kinda... derivative after Nioh?
I mean, there are new mechanics... maybe too much of them in fact - for my taste.

But other then teleporting to use some interrupt monster moves, it kinda feels like... more of the same?
 

Lambach

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Maybe because Nioh 2 feels kinda... derivative after Nioh?

Derivative? My entire playstyle revolves around using Yokai abilities and filling up the Anima bar as quickly as possible, both of which were not present in the original.

I mean, there are new mechanics... maybe too much of them in fact - for my taste.

But other then teleporting to use some interrupt monster moves, it kinda feels like... more of the same?

You can say the exact same thing about Elden Ring as it relates to Dark Souls, as I already have in that game's thread.

The reason why one gets all the attention and the other isn't is marketing, that's all.
 

Sjukob

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i think it's because Nioh is a more mechanical game and less creative as atmosphere and lore, so there is less to discuss as well
I think if that was the reason then Pathfinder's, Underrail's and KotC threads wouldn't have amassed hundreds of pages full of build and combat wankery.

Maybe because Nioh 2 feels kinda... derivative after Nioh?
I mean, there are new mechanics... maybe too much of them in fact - for my taste.
But other then teleporting to use some interrupt monster moves, it kinda feels like... more of the same?
I don't know, I've just started playing it, never tried it's prequel. I like that the combat is quite nuanced and varied, the shallow combat is one of the main reason's why I dislike Souls series. I don't have much experience with these types of games though, I've completed Severance several times, played through Dark Souls once and that's pretty much it. I've just beaten Enenra, we'll see if it can keep me interested.
 

Wunderbar

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i think it's because Nioh is a more mechanical game and less creative as atmosphere and lore, so there is less to discuss as well
I think if that was the reason then Pathfinder's, Underrail's and KotC threads wouldn't have amassed hundreds of pages full of build and combat wankery.
Nioh's build wankery is cheesy, unbalanced, randomized, and locked behind multiple playthroughs to boot.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Maybe because Nioh 2 feels kinda... derivative after Nioh?

Derivative? My entire playstyle revolves around using Yokai abilities and filling up the Anima bar as quickly as possible, both of which were not present in the original.

Trouble with that is that this new addition made the combat TOO gimmicky / anime for my personal taste.

I mean, there are new mechanics... maybe too much of them in fact - for my taste.

But other then teleporting to use some interrupt monster moves, it kinda feels like... more of the same?

You can say the exact same thing about Elden Ring as it relates to Dark Souls, as I already have in that game's thread.

The reason why one gets all the attention and the other isn't is marketing, that's all.

Sure, Elden Rings is derivative after Dark Souls. In fact I still love the slower, methodical speed and the interconnected world of DS1 the most - by far.

But its also new - the game is HUGE, open world - for better or worse (mostly worse in my opinion), the graphics are improved, there is a ton of new weapons, weapon arts (too many, too strong, too easy to spam to win!), spells, ash summons, even a mount.
Even the name and setting are new - even if that's just a disguise.

Sure, marketing played a major role in its popularity - no doubt about this.
But the differences between ER and DS are also much bigger (literarily!) then between Nioh 1 and 2.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
i think it's because Nioh is a more mechanical game and less creative as atmosphere and lore, so there is less to discuss as well
I think if that was the reason then Pathfinder's, Underrail's and KotC threads wouldn't have amassed hundreds of pages full of build and combat wankery.
Nioh's build wankery is cheesy, unbalanced, randomized, and locked behind multiple playthroughs to boot.

Eh, I loved the combat in Nioh 1, its flow, rhytm, Ki pulsing...
You can indeed discover new layers upon layers of mechanics / items in subsequent playtroughs... but going from one New Game to the next goes exceptionally smootly and fast here - the first game where I have actually completed NG+.
The mechanics are introduced gradually from the start and are sufficiently complex and satisfying already on the Way of the Samurai.

On the other hand, I've found Nioh 2 too... gimmicky with those weird-ass Yokai counters, where you instantly morph into a demon and smash the enemy head with a giant hammer or something.
 
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Silverfish

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Why does this thread only have 43 pages and is dead, while Dragon's Dogma's, Dark Souls 3 and Eldern Ring's are in the hunderds and still keep going?

Because Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma have broader appeal while Nioh is overwhelmingly Japanese.
 

Ravielsk

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On the other hand, I've found Nioh 2 too... gimmicky with those weird-ass Yokai counters, where you instantly morph into a demon and smash the enemy head with a giant hammer or something.
They are obviously rather inconsistent because each demon form has a slightly different timing for each attack and since you cannot swap forms between guardian spirits(which you most likely will be switching around a lot ) it gets rather hard to become consistently good at them.
On top of that the Yokai form is generally much less usefull than the living weapons were in Nioh 2 because unless you spec specifically into them they last only a couple of seconds, use a moveset different from you weapon and on top of that are not even remotely powerful enough to justify their usage(again unless you explicitly spec into them, which without DLC content was barely doable anyway).

Because Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma have broader appeal while Nioh is overwhelmingly Japanese.
Nah, Nioh is just not really open to creating unique player experiences. The levels are linear and often recycled, the weapons do not have unique movesets and loot in general is randomized and far too abundant to have any impact and the story... well its a story where the player character is a side character and its not even half as good as the one in Nioh 1 was.
 

Dhaze

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Maybe because Nioh 2 feels kinda... derivative after Nioh?

Meanwhile, Elden Ring could drop the act, peel the label off and reveal that it's real name is Demon's Souls 5: Bigger And Wider Edition.

I like what Team Ninja did with Nioh 2. Actually I think it's fantastic. They kept all the things that worked, and fixed what didn't. Elden Ring I would call derivative, with changes but no overall betterment, and every trapping of every open-world game ever; Nioh 2 I would simply call an improvement across the board, for every facet of the gameplay.

Why does this thread only have 43 pages and is dead, while Dragon's Dogma's, Dark Souls 3 and Eldern Ring's are in the hunderds and still keep going?

Honestly? I think it's just an extremely niche game.

Needs be said that when Nioh 1 came out a whole lot of people were under the impression it would be another Dark Souls; then they played it and realized it wasn't Dark Souls at all, but rather a very different and specific experience they didn't like—which of course is absolutely fine.
Others, instead of adapting their playstyle and gitting gud, derided Nioh as some cheap bullshit with Diablo loot and no i-frames. Seriously, the number of people slapping the cringe-inducing 'Souls vet' badge on themselves and flooding the Nioh subreddit with salt was insane; you could feel the wounded prides.
So when Nioh 2 came out, all these people gave not a shit about it, and with what little marketing was used to promote that title, most of the ones who bought it were fans from the first hour.

Dragon's Dogma, on top of its broad, general appeal, has some extreme weirdness and idiosyncrasies that makes people talk.
Dark Souls 3 rode hard on the "Bro you gotta play this, it's only for the trve hardc0res lol" memeness accrued over the years by its predecessors.
Elden Ring is open world, and that possesses the broadest appeal of all.
Devil May Cry (not the same kind of game, admittedly, but also action-heavy) has palpable amounts of cool factor, on top of pleasing the graphics crowd.

In the end Nioh doesn't have an interesting story or characters, so people who like that are out. Graphics-wise, it's okay at best (though occasionnaly some scenery can be gorgeous), and I think it's safe to say that nobody ever went "Holy shit look at the textures and lighting in that game!" when talking about Nioh. Its aesthetic is quintessentialy japanese, which doesn't help in broadening its appeal.

No, really, its—beyond excellent—gameplay is where its at, and it is so intensely specific as to be, by definition, incapable of wide appeal. If you're familiar with that, I equate Nioh a bit to a series like Guilty Gear, specifically around the Accent Core era, in that fans build tiny communities here and there and talk about the fine technical points, but not much beyond that.
 

Sjukob

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So I killed the Pinokio snake first try, got hit only 2 or 3 times in that fight, seems like it had more frightening appearance rather than the actual combat prowess. I frankly had no idea what I was doing during the entire fight, I thought that it's attacks were mostly non obvious and hard to read, funny that prior to that I died like 5 times to Enenra, who has very distinct and easy to understand moves.

Dhaze
May be you're right, I just view it as an action game and everybody likes action games, they have broad appeal, right? So far it delivers better action than other jrpgs that are seemingly way more popular today.
 
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Dhaze

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Maybe I'm right, but evidently there's a big something I'm missing.

I mean, like you say, action games are popular, right? It rakes players in by the throngs. And Nioh 2 has an excellent character creation; tons of cool-looking armor sets; great movesets that pack a punch; some of the best bosses ever designed (Lightning Gods Of Yomi is a dream to fight, as far as I'm concerned); and magic and ninjutsu and transformations and monsters and tons of loot. Also, for new players, a power progression that is neither too slow as to feel hindered, nor so quick as to overwhelm with the numerous mechanics. Not to mention the staggering replayability with so many possible builds (I myself have played an almost shameful 800 hours of Nioh 2 with a dozen different characters). It even has a big-tiddies neko-chariot girl who laughs like a maniac!

So I don't exactly understand why the hell it's not massively more popular. I keep seeing people talking about Dark Souls, Code Vein, Monster Hunter, God Of War, Nier and many others, but for some reason Nioh is left alone in a corner of the playground like it shat its pants or something.

At this point, I'm kinda thinking that it's not very popular because... it's not very popular. As dumb as that may seem. People don't really talk about it, so people don't really talk about it.

I personally know guys who are not at all into those kinds of games, but nonetheless they've tried Nier because they heard people talking about how quirky it is, and they've tried Monster Hunter because huge swords and cathedral-sized monsters, and when it came out they hopped onto the Elden Ring bandwagon—first day!—because it seemed the whole video game world awaited the messiah's hallowed return.

But Nioh? Nope. I've talked about it, and praised it, yet it doesn't stick. Despite the fact that usually, when I talk to them about a game I hold in high regard, they're very keen to try it.

I don't know man. Makes my heart ache a bit; Team Ninja deserves so much credit for what they've accomplished, and they're not getting it.
 

Machocruz

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The masses are not gameplay purists in the slightest. It's the fact that many action games look cool that draws them in, and cool is equated with fun. Being easier rather than harder helps. God of War came out and ran the yard for a while, even though it was, imo, mechanically inferior to and less challenging than DMC, NG, Bayonetta, God Hand, etc. The FromSoft Miyazaki Collection is an anomaly in terms of difficult and popular action games, yet there were plenty of complainers asking for easy modes, in the crowd. As an anecdote, when I first heard of Nioh, I was interested because it was Team Ninja doing a new action game, and the comparisons to Onimusha and Dark Souls didn't hurt. When i finally saw Nioh, I was interested because...it was TN doing a new action game like Onimusha and Souls. The game did not impress my eyes with anything, very little looked cool, impressive, or beautiful, and Diet Geralt was a turn-off. Me being a Ninja Gaiden head is what got my attention, but how many of those are there really?

Good gameplay doesn't hurt, but Metal Slug would have vanished in a month, written off as another tired Contra wannabe, if it didn't look, sound and move like Metal Slug.
 

Silverfish

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I keep seeing people talking about Dark Souls, Code Vein, Monster Hunter, God Of War, Nier and many others, but for some reason Nioh is left alone in a corner of the playground like it shat its pants or something.

Nioh is great, but it doesn't have that extra "something" like the other games you mentioned. Dark Souls is largely credited (not entirely accurately) for making "hardcore" games appealing to the CoD / Skyrim / Bioshock set. Monster Hunter was already hot shit in Japan and Souls fans looking for anything at all to do between DS3 and Elden Ring gave the series a huge shot in the arm stateside. God of War was the most viscerally appealing action game ever, if not as mechanically adept as its contemporaries and the newest one appealed to the retard Naughty Dog crowd. Code Vein is Weeb Souls (basically more Nioh than Nioh), and Nier was a meme game sold entirely by an anime girl with a huge ass wearing a French maid outfit.
 

Dhaze

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Me being a Ninja Gaiden head is what got my attention, but how many of those are there really?

There are dozens of us. Dozens!

Nioh is great, but it doesn't have that extra "something" like the other games you mentioned.

True enough. As Machocruz said, most people aren't gameplay purists, and gameplay is by far Nioh's main strength. Bah, too bad for those who don't like it; they'll never know the pleasure of putting Toshimitsu down without onmyo, ninjutsu or Yokai skills.

Oh by the way, I'm only now remembering that title Team Ninja was developping, Stranger Of Paradise. Yeesh. Apparently it's out since march and it's... not so good. Not so good at all.
 

Biscotti

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Oh by the way, I'm only now remembering that title Team Ninja was developping, Stranger Of Paradise. Yeesh. Apparently it's out since march and it's... not so good. Not so good at all.

Who told you that? The combat is ace and Jack is a (from what I gather mostly unintentionally) hilariously amazing protagonist. The level design is at times even more simplistic than Nioh, but the aforementioned gameplay purists should have a good time with it.
 

Puukko

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Yeah, I just watched a friend stream it and the gameplay seems solid as ever, it's just that the game has the appearance and feel of a PS2 action title that forgot it was supposed to release 15 years ago. In a good way for the most part. I'm waiting for the performance issues to be ironed out, and there's still DLC on the horizon which I wasn't expecting the game to receive.
 

Lambach

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Nioh's build wankery is cheesy, unbalanced, randomized, and locked behind multiple playthroughs to boot.

I'm still stuck wearing the same Chest Armor Piece that I got some ~200 levels and 80-ish hours ago, simply because I can't get the same crucial bonus I need for my playstyle on that piece of equipment, even with Tempering (Healing when absorbing Amrita). :negative:

The loot system is definitely garbage, I won't argue that. But overall, I have to disagree with Haplo , I think the new mechanics introduced by the sequel are a very worthwhile addition. Yes, it makes combat a bit too anime-y, but isn't that kinda the point?
 

Dhaze

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Oh by the way, I'm only now remembering that title Team Ninja was developping, Stranger Of Paradise. Yeesh. Apparently it's out since march and it's... not so good. Not so good at all.

Who told you that? The combat is ace and Jack is a (from what I gather mostly unintentionally) hilariously amazing protagonist. The level design is at times even more simplistic than Nioh, but the aforementioned gameplay purists should have a good time with it.

People I can no longer trust, apparently. All right, I'll check it out when and if it ever comes to Steam.
 

Rean

Ask me about Sen no Kiseki
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Strap Yourselves In
My friends, any tips for switchglaive? It just doesn't feel too strong. I've moved over to splitstaff and the difference in damage is massive.
 
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