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No One Lives Forever

Antagonist

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
484
Location
Glorious Vaterland
OgreOgre said:
Indeed, the Berlin mission is much better, lots of sneaking. Hope it stays this way.

Put some points into combat related skills. Later stages of the game involve mandatory combat with endlessly respawning enemies. If you've invested everything into stealth related skills up to that point it can get quite difficult to get past these combat areas. Happened to me and to my immense shame I had to revert to god mode to get past one particular level (yes, I'm a crappy FPS player).
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,086
Antagonist said:
OgreOgre said:
Indeed, the Berlin mission is much better, lots of sneaking. Hope it stays this way.

Put some points into combat related skills. Later stages of the game involve mandatory combat with endlessly respawning enemies. If you've invested everything into stealth related skills up to that point it can get quite difficult to get past these combat areas. Happened to me and to my immense shame I had to revert to god mode to get past one particular level (yes, I'm a crappy FPS player).
He was talking about NOLF1.
But yeah, It's kind of obvious that in NOLF2 the most viable option is to FPS it. I got really annoyed with the respawning in the Siberian base, since each time I knocked down an enemy and dragged his body to hide it, another soldier spawned. So I just grabbed the AK47 and quickly dispatched the whole platoon. Cate Archer ? Moar like Rambo.
 

Slobbergoat

Novice
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
84
Personally I preferred NOLF1 - the only real complaint I could have for the game is the instant-fail forced stealth sections which thankfully aren't very common. At the time of its' release many people were calling it a PC-ified goldeneye which is a somewhat fair comparison, I guess - though NOLF approaches its' subject matter with a campier, self-aware style.

The weapon variety and equipment choices were a lot nicer than NOLF2, particularly in regard to ammo/silencer/scope choices and the way you could choose any weapons you'd previously found for any future level.

Also nice was the way weapons actually hit and killed what you pointed them at at distances past one inch, meaning you could go about the process of steathily and accurately dropping enemies with your carbine or luger without having to worry about missing two dozen times at two feet like a lot of games.

Also being able to get bonuses to your max health/armor/accuracy from completing missions with certain criteria was pretty cool; it gave a (minor) purpose behind being able to revisit previous levels with existing equipment and weapons.
 

karnot

Educated
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
64
I would say NOLF is actually worse as a GAME.
NOLF has a few things going for it, primarily :
-incredible setting diversity (although the settings themselves arent really that exotic)
-sheer length (and there's even a semi-secret bonus level in the volcano AFTER you win the game)
-no fucking enemy respawn

However it had many, many serious flaws, which can get so annoying over time...
- once stealth fails - everyone knows where you are. what kind of stealth is that ?
- you cant kill alarms. you just cant. if you got sighted - be prepared to listen to the same music clip played over, and over, and over, until the end of the level.
- all those timed segments...oh god those shitty timed segments...the skydiving one where you lose tens of lives due to crappily written instructions, the one with exploding human where you BARELY have enough time if you KNOW what you're doing, the ship one where the price of death is a two second delay, and the one with poison, and the one in space...there's so many of them.

Basically, the only REAL advantage NOLF has over its sequel is that you can actually kill everyone on the level. Humor is dependent on taste, length is debatable, story and settings and undoubtedly the sequel's strongest points.

Oh, and both games share the Amazingly-Out-Of-Place-Feeling animations. I mean...whats up with that ? They couldnt do some minor manual fixing of their motion capture data ? Really ?
 

Dark Matter

Prophet
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
1,227
Location
Toronto
I only played NOLF 2 and found it pretty boring. I got up to the part where you fight the Russian guys and gave up. I just couldn't bear the respawning enemies each time you triggered an alarm.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
5,933
Location
Scotland
I played a few hours of NOLF1, but I stopped after... the sinking ship or something, I think. The dialogue was witty and the setting/atmosphere were fun, but I found the gameplay pretty average and the level design boring. Keep meaning to get back to it, just can't quite be bothered.
 

Korgan

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
4,238
Location
Fahrfromjuden
I started playing NOLF 1 and found its humour much, much more to my liking than I could've thought. Not annoying at all, absolutely charming, and thank God they left the fourth wall mostly intact. I expected appalling over-the-top silliness. Also, a game that realizes the true purpose of enemies using cover - comic relief? Bravo! Oh, how they dodge and scramble and get shot in the heel!
Also, the music's just good. Good.
 

Double Ogre

Scholar
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
765
Finished NOLF1. Very nice game, definitely one of the better first-person shooters. I still prefer NOLF2, however, but maybe that's because I played it first.

Gotta replay NOLF2 now.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,086
OgreOgre said:
Finished NOLF1. Very nice game, definitely one of the better first-person shooters. I still prefer NOLF2, however, but maybe that's because I played it first.

Gotta replay NOLF2 now.

I'm curious of your present reaction to NOLF2 after playing NOLF1. I could not get into NOLF2 after playing the first.
 

Double Ogre

Scholar
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
765
Played Contract J.A.C.K. first (its story takes place between NOLF1 and NOLF2 and explains a few things). And what a load of shit it was! Thank god, it was short enough, and the Moon mission was worth it. But still, I can't recommend it.

Anyway, been playing NOLF2 for awhile now, have finished all Japanese and Siberian missions. And, yeah, I still prefer it over NOLF1. Here's a few points that I'd like to make. First of all, NOLF2 has better stealth mechanics. You can hide in the shadows, turn off the lights and hide in dark rooms, you can peak around corners, hide bodies, etc. Enemies' behavior is also more realistic. They notice if you open a door near them, turn off the lights in a near room, hell, they can even track your footprints in the snow. Needless to say, NOLF2 also offers a wider selection of gadgets and weapons, improved controls, RPG elements, etc.

Considering the missions, I've no idea where you got the impression that it plays like Call of Duty. I've been able to complete all missions up to this point by using pure stealth. The Japanese missions were pretty easy to complete without sounding an alarm (just headshot everyone with your crossbow and hide the bodies). The Siberian missions were more difficult, however, and I had to sound one or two alarms to get through, but still it was a nice challenge. You just have to study the guards' patterns, take them out one by one and hide the bodies in dark rooms/behind the houses/etc. The respawning enemies make the missions more realistic actually, you can't just clear a level and then stroll around it. You have to use stealth each time you cross a section of a level. Oh, and you're only encouraged to use your AK-47 in the snowmobile parts, and even then it's easier to just snipe the enemies from afar.

Basically, as it was said earlier, NOLF2 has improved gameplay, while the setting/humor is subjective (although, I'll admit NOLF1 seemed more goofy to me). NOLF2 also has more stealth opportunities, and there's no stupid things like a sounded alarm playing through the whole level.
 

pipka

Savant
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
1,351
Location
The Penal Zone
I liked NOLF. Both of them.
NOLF is better in general presentation of setting(spies, 60s, lipstick humor). Enemies discussion were so cash...

NOLF2 has better gameplay(better stealth, inventory system, enemies. Also I liked almost non-lethal approach for dispatching enemies.
Knocking down soviets soldiers, stealing their guns, waiting until they wake up and hearing them say "capitalist pig has stolen my weapon" in thick russian accents... Made me smile every time...
 

Double Ogre

Scholar
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
765
"Shooting mechanics are wooden"? What the hell is that even supposed to mean? You are ridiculous.

And "most FPSs haven't aged well"? Just so you know, ALL the best FPSs were released before the early 2000s.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
It gets ruined for me because I keep on associating the name NOLF with the term MILF. No-One I'd Like to F...? Ninja Operator I.L.F.? Naked Orangutang I.L.F.?

And on-topic, I just find respawning enemies a killer in a game with stealth. I've hated that in every mission-based shooter I've come across, but in a stealth setting I just can't deal with it at all. For me, so much of the satisfaction of stealth is (1) getting through undetected, or (2) taking out every motherfucker in the building without them knowing before the dart hits their neck. The first doesn't require respawns and the 2nd is completely ruined by them.

The only time I've found unscripted respawns worked to a games advantage is on large-map FPSs like STALKER, where the setting is open and large amounts of time are supposed to pass, thus removing any psychological expectation of limited enemies. Otherwise, respawning just breaks the 4th wall for me - it makes me accutely aware that enemies don't exist before they materialise just out of my sight.
 

Double Ogre

Scholar
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
765
Finished NOLF2. It's awesome, but I have to say that it has considerably shorter cutscenes, however it seems like this was done on purpose. In NOLF1's postmortem the developers say:
[url=http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010608/hubbard_03.htm:2lq50ig8]Postmortem: Monolith's No One Lives Forever - What Went Wrong[/url] said:
5. Cinematic overload. This point is admittedly a bit self indulgent, but I'm the one writing the post mortem, after all. Anyway, if there's one aspect of the game about which I remain ambivalent, it's the in-game cinematics. I'm generally pleased with the understated camerawork and shot composition, and there are definitely scenes I'm proud of, but overall there's plenty of room for improvement. The problems fell into a couple of distinct categories:

Technical difficulties. Implementing in-game cutscenes in NOLF proved to be a frustrating, time-consuming ordeal, especially considering how many of them there were. As a result, I generally had to go with the easiest solution rather than the most desirable one. Due to time constraints, I also had to sacrifice many of the cutaways I'd hoped to do to keep the briefings interesting. To make matters worse, we'd done the motion capture based on the original script, so with the cutaways excised, I had a very limited pool of applicable animations to draw from.

The bottom line is that rudimentary cinematic techniques that filmmakers rely on and take for granted can be a massive headache for game developers. A movie director can say, "Hey, Joe, can you pick up the gun, check to see if it's loaded, and then go over and peek through the shades?" For a game developer, just getting a character to pick up the gun convincingly can be a technical nightmare. Any time a character interacts with an object, the environment, or another character, you're likely to spend a lot of time simply trying to make it look natural. When time is in short supply, complicated blocking that adds life to a scene get simplified.

Conceptual flaws. The biggest problem was a conceptual blunder on my part. Instead of relying on my understanding of scene structure and exposition in film, I fell into the trap of thinking of game cinematics as stylistically unique, partly because games run so much longer than films and partly because the player, by stepping into the role of the hero, would seem to require more information than an audience watching the story unfold. The most obvious byproduct of this oversight was that I deviated from standard screenplay format, which made it impossible to gauge the duration of a given scene. In filmmaking, a page translates to roughly a minute of screen time. The NOLF script was far more dense than a screenplay, which made it easy to underestimate the how long a scene would run.

If you've played NOLF, you might be surprised to learn that my screenwriting problem has always tended to be divulging too little information. I favor tight pacing, defining character by action rather than dialogue, and subtlety over obviousness. When I was writing this script, probably because I was inventing my own format, I fell into novelistic conversational rhythms. The problem is that what flows on the page tends to drag on screen.

Unfortunately, by the time I recognized the mistake, it was way too late to do anything about it.
P.S. I was pretty amazed at how intricate some intelligence items were. E.g. I've found a letter that was addressing a certain note from the Morroco mission from the first game. Hot damn! Also, the mission in Tom Goodman's house was also chockfull of references to NOLF1.
 

ChristofferC

Magister
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
3,515
Location
Thailand
I finished NOLF for the first time yesterday and wow, what a great game. I wish I had played back in 2000 when I was more impressionable, because then it would have been even better! Great characters, decent humor, fantastic level design, varied environments, varied gameplay. Not so great driving sequences though.

I urge anybody who hasn't played this game yet to try it out (and play past the first level because it is probably the worst level in the game). It's an unique experience.

NOLF 2 is definitely on my list of games to play now. Respawning enemies is a feature I normally can't stand at all, though.

EDIT: I forgot, the music is brilliant.
 

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
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pulling-bandaids.jpg



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-forever-the-spy-shooter-that-saved-monolith


No One Lives Forever: The spy shooter that saved Monolith
Our woman on the inside.

By Rick Lane Published 01/10/2017

After launching the anime-inspired mech-shooter SHOGO: Mobile Armor Division, Monolith Productions was down in the dumps. Although SHOGO had reviewed pretty well, internally Monolith's view on the game reflected my own when I returned to it a few weeks ago. In both style and substance SHOGO fell short of the developer's expectations, and in some areas it was downright broken.

Nevertheless, Monolith saw the game as a failure, and their misery was compounded by the equally problematic release of Blood 2: The Chosen. The difficulties encountered by both games left Monolith visibly bruised, forcing it to restructure and let go of its publishing arm. With its identity compromised, Monolith needed an extraction, and it would be down to super-spy Cate Archer to undertake the mission.

Although she nearly didn't.

jpg

As with all Monolith's shooters, the guns feel fantastic.

What's fascinating about The Operative: No One Lives Forever (henceforth referred to as NOLF, as I'm not writing that out every time) is that in some ways it suffered just as turbulent a development as Monolith's previous 3D shooters. Moreover, you can see the results of this in the game. There's a lot of stuff in NOLF that simply doesn't work.

The glitches and wonk which pervaded SHOGO and Blood 2 after it are still very much present in Monolith's beloved spy shooter. The difference with NOLF is that it succeeds in two areas where Monolith's previous games failed, namely style and scope. Monolith present us with a riotous pastiche of 60s spy fiction, one that is funny and smart and so incredibly vivid. At the same time, it offers a genuinely brilliant FPS adventure that is so vast in scope and inventive in execution that the fact that maybe a third of it falls flat simply doesn't matter.

It's also, of course, one of if not the only 90s shooter that lets you play as a woman (technically NOLF released in 2000, but in form and function its recognisably a product of the preceding decade). Cate Archer is a cat burglar recruited by the British spy agency UNITY, and is relegated to bodyguard duty and emissary work by the resolutely masculine world of British "Intelligence". That is, until several British spies are murdered, and UNITY are forced to send Cate into the field to discover who is behind the killings.

It's worth dwelling on the nature of NOLF's protagonist for a moment, because Cate's character is so fundamental in establishing the game's final tone. In early iterations, Monolith opted for a traditional male protagonist very much in the Bond mould. But in a shock twist, they struggled to say or do anything interesting with the character. Bond had been parodied to death even before the sixties ended, his character lampooned in films like Casino Royale and Our Man Flint - the latter of which Monolith took direct inspiration from.

jpg

Amidst the frequent warehouses and grey corridors is some superb sixties-inspired architecture

Then Monolith had a brainwave: make the protagonist a woman, but keep the core characteristics of Bond. All of a sudden, Monolith went from having nothing to say about 60s spy fiction to having everything to say about 60s spy fiction.

If there's one thing that stands out most about NOLF all these years on, it's the script. Not only is it laugh-out-loud funny at times, but the way Archer skewers the inherent misogyny of her less-competent superiors is delightful. What's more, behind the humour is an earnest exploration of the obstacles put in Archer's way because of her gender, the extend to which has to over-perform just to be viewed as "equal" to her male peers, and how savagely she is criticised for failure due to events way beyond her control.

There are some stumbles, such as the fact that the first time we meet Archer is in the shower, which risks undermining all the good work Monolith do with the character later on. But there's also intelligent and amusing commentary in there too. There's a great running gag where all the codephrases which Archer's contacts use to liaise with Archer are formed as sexual advances. But these agents are absolutely mortified about using them, and even prod at the fourth-wall as they discuss the mindset of the codephrase creators. "These codephrases have a somewhat confessional tone to them, don't you think?" one spy comments to Archer.

Cate is the backbone of NOLF, the foundation that gives Monolith the confidence to push the boat out in its affectionate mockery of 60s spy fiction. Cate's gadgets, for example, are all given a feminine twist, such as lipstick grenades and a perfume bottle that contains blinding and even corrosive sprays.

jpg

NOLF shows its age in lots of areas, but the Berlin nightclub still looks beautiful.

Beyond the quality of the writing, the other thing that stands out about NOLF is the ludicrous ambition of its level design. Monolith's globe-trotting spy adventure makes even the most wide-ranging Call of Duty look like a rainy weekend in Skegness. NOLF sees you travel to Morocco, Berlin, the tropics, the Alps. Many of these levels have aged quite poorly, particularly those that take place outdoors. But it still feels sumptuous and exotic as a traditional spy film should.

Plus, there are a few setpieces that still have a surprising impact, such as an early mission in a German nightclub with gorgeously garish psychedelic wallpaper. Later on there's a genuinely spooky underwater mission, in which you must search a wrecked cargo-ship patrolled by sharks and enemy divers. My favourite mission, however, is Low Earth Orbit, which sees Cate infiltrate a sprawling space-station to retrieve a cure for a virus that turns people into walking bombs. Featuring a neon-drenched space-club, and Moonraker-style laser guns that instantly vaporise enemies, it's NOLF at its maddest and most brilliant.

All of these elements make NOLF worth returning to, but it's not an easy game to play today. One of its big selling points is how it let you play it either as a straight shooter or as a stealth game. But if you try to play it as a stealth game, you will have a horrible time. The AI is way too perceptive and aggressive to make stealth enjoyable, while neither the levels nor your equipment are built with sneaking in mind.

In hindsight, it's easy to see that NOLF would have benefited from some slightly more ruthless editor's scissors, especially directed toward some of the interminably long cutscenes that take place between missions. But it's important to remember that back in 2000, the shooter to beat was still Half Life, a similarly indulgent FPS that broke ground with its approach to storytelling. Attempting to be bigger and better than Half Life is no mean feat, and it's not surprising that Monolith's lofty ambitions come at a price.

jpg

NOLF includes several outdoor vehicular sections, one area where it beat Half Life to the punch.

Indeed, in his own retrospective on NOLF from 2009, John Walker lamented that you couldn't make a shooter like NOLF in a modern development studio, because it would be too expensive. But in 2017, NOLF can't come back for different reasons. A legal tryst between three publishers, Activision, Warner Bros, and 20th Century Fox, means nobody knows who owns the NOLF trademark, and even Night-Dive studios, the champions of resurrecting old games, couldn't successfully navigate the legal quagmire NOLF is buried in.

What makes this doubly sad is that I don't think what John said in 2009 is remains true. In fact, I know it isn't, because someone has made a shooter like NOLF very recently. MachineGames' Wolfenstein: The New Order is basically a NOLF sequel wearing a Nazi uniform, boasting a similarly stylised aesthetic, a surprisingly strong emphasis on storytelling, and offering the player a choice between stealth and shooting. It even has a space level.

Wolfenstein shows there's absolutely a market for that kind of mad and colourful shooter, and I think a modern NOLF sequel would have an equal if not better chance of success in 2017, now that the industry is slowly coming around to the fact that women sometimes maybe occasionally like to play games as well. Sadly, until the ownership of the NOLF trademark is settled, we'll have to be content with the fact that the spirit of Cate Archer lives on in the watery blue eyes of B.J. Blazcowicz.

And to think those niggas nowadays make Detroit: Middle-earth just saddens me.

Also this:
Sadly, until the ownership of the NOLF trademark is settled, we'll have to be content with the fact that the spirit of Cate Archer lives on in the watery blue eyes of B.J. Blazcowicz.

Lol kill yourself.
 

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
Just finished this recently for the first time (had played the second one around the time it came out as I'd been gifted it) and it's very good across the board. The level variety is great, there's a ton of content and the dialogue is great fun especially within missions. It also has a great ending, well explained without dragging on and not relying on over the top cut scenes. I also thought Fear 1 was great so it's a pity seeing where the studio is now but hardly surprising given they answer to WB.
 

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