Vapourware Notes about the next DG

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I'm sorry to say I'm not convinced by the new look. It doesn't look like an abstraction, the way DG did, but rather like a regular 3D level with monochrome textures.

Can you pinpoint what exactly is making you feel like this?

 

[V_K]

Diffuse lighting probably? I think it looked flatter in DG1.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I see.

DG1 used 3 shades for the level geometry without any transitions between them -- this worked for simple architecture, but anything more complex than that looked inconsistent and certain things (like bridges) were a pain in the ass to put together.

DG2 uses one color and adjusts the shade based on the polygon angle, which somewhat improves the depth perception and makes certain parts of level design easier.

As for the light shafts, they still use one color, but slowly transition to full transparency in DG2, while in DG1 they simply had one transparent color (which looked flat, which isn't a bad thing, but not in tone with what I want to make in DG2).

Overall, it probably looks less abstract than DG1, but still atmospheric enough to warrant further exploration of these ideas.

 

[V_K]

DG2 uses one color and adjusts the shade based on the polygon angle, which somewhat improves the depth perception and makes certain parts of level design easier.

I think the problem for me is that there's a bit of a gradient going on within a polygon as well. If the shade level was uniform for a given polygon, it'd still look abstract enough.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

DG2 uses one color and adjusts the shade based on the polygon angle, which somewhat improves the depth perception and makes certain parts of level design easier.

I think the problem for me is that there's a bit of a gradient going on within a polygon as well. If the shade level was uniform for a given polygon, it'd still look abstract enough.

Actually, the color is uniform for each given polygon. There's also some subtle dithering in place to add some texture to the environment.
BTW, the same shader is used in Phantom 3D to render the walls.

 

[V_K]

Actually, the color is uniform for each given polygon

In effect, it's not, they're slightly lighter towards the player.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Actually, the color is uniform for each given polygon

In effect, it's not, they're slightly lighter towards the player.

Are you talking about the fog, which was also used in DG1, but now grows exponentially (rather than linearly) in DG2?

 

[V_K]

Maybe? I just checked the lower polygon on the wall alcove in that screenshot with a color picker, and the color at its close end is lighter than at the other end, something like #032934 vs. #03212A.
I guess it wasn't as noticeable in DG1 because of how shades worked, but in combination with the new improved shades it makes it a bit too realistic. Can you make the fog level tile-based rather than continuous?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Can you make the fog level tile-based rather than continuous?

Just did a quick test and I'm not convinced -- it clashes with the rest of the graphics + looks butt-ugly in motion with objects suddenly popping in and out, while the rest is smooth as butter.

 

[V_K]

I dunno, I think I like this particular screenshot better, but it also doesn't feature as complex geometry as the previous one. And the movement thing is of course a fair point.

 

[vortex]

This is looking very nice. I dig the clean style.

 

[Duckard]

While I like the new look better (the lighting is ace), I'll agree with V_K that the original DG felt more like you were viewing a computer simulation, whereas this seems more like you're in a physical space.

My suspicion is that it's only because of the absence of UI and other visual elements that hint at it being a sim.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Don't remind me about the UI.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

One thing I'd like to fix in DG2 is the slow pacing in combat -- if I just kept the same implementation from DG1, this could easily lead to a slugfest in and out of combat due to security cameras, turrets and potential friendly units taking their sweet time to do their stuff.

Right now there are a few precautions implemented at this point, such as security cameras updating simultaneously and both enemies and cameras performing their actions near-instantly if they're not visible in the main view and on the map screen.

Enemies move three times as fast as the player (in terms of time taken), which is also a plus and makes the downtime around <1 second with two enemies chasing you.

This method works well right now with the fast speed out of combat and decent speed in it. Now I need to add turrets and implement the same stuff for them.

Another fun thing -- I've implemented rudimentary stealth mechanics into the game. After failing to find you at your last seen location, enemies will start exploring the area and looking for you. They can react to disturbances, such as footsteps, to track you down, which should make sneaking past them interesting. If you can't run away from them, at worst you can do hit and run attacks to fill their butts with bullets.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Added turrets. They shoot on sight, deal rather small amount of damage (8-12 at this point), but have a crapton of ammo, which can work in your favor if you manage to hack them.

Running away from enemies works nicely now as well -- enemies keep searching the area until the time limit is hit, after which they disappear like in DG1, but since there are multiple enemies here, the time limit before they disappear is taken from the enemy with the highest time limit assigned to it.

This allows you to take out the most determined enemy using hit and run tactics, then hide for a short while before less determined enemies decide to leave you alone.

 

[lightbane]

Yay, the sequel is incoming!

brofists this.

That's fake, it has multiple colors.

Initial graphics tests are coming along nicely.

That's more like it. IT looks more lively than DS1. Too bad it won't continue the storyline of the first game. Will it be as mindfucky as the first one's plot?

Seeing that the first game has red as the main color, this one has blue, will the third game have green as the primary color then?

This allows you to take out the most determined enemy using hit and run tactics, then hide for a short while before less determined enemies decide to leave you alone.

Will turrets that move along rails be a thing, or are they completely stationary? Also, will melee weapons be a thing at long last, or are mecha-sized combat knives still a lost technology in this setting?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

That's fake, it has multiple colors.

It was a navigation test w/ random placeholders. Enemies try to surround the sphere, but the third one, having no direct way towards it, uses a teleporter to reach his destination.
This was an old prototype, but I will definitely look into adding it back here to make enemies utilize the tricks available to the player when necessary.

Too bad it won't continue the storyline of the first game. Will it be as mindfucky as the first one's plot?

It has a more grounded story that remains minimal enough to not be intrusive and detailed enough to work as a good excuse for your objectives.
I'll eventually continue the storyline of the first game, though. In fact, this spin-off is very similar to real DG2 when it comes to the game structure.

The basic premise for this spin-off is:

Spoiler

You're sent to the recently-evacuated facility that had an internal security breach. Your goals are to fix the breach, find out what caused it and what happened to the special team that was sent in before you but had their communications shut off the moment they entered the facility.

Seeing that the first game has red as the main color, this one has blue, will the third game have green as the primary color then?

Been thinking of making the next spin-off black & white with minor drops of other colors to add more variety to the game dungeon.

Will turrets that move along rails be a thing, or are they completely stationary? Also, will melee weapons be a thing at long last, or are mecha-sized combat knives still a lost technology in this setting?

Turrets are stationary, but your post adds some food for thought for future entries. I'll keep them stationary in this one mostly to keep the turn-based exploration and combat as fast as possible.

 

[lightbane]

sic premise for this spin-off is:

Well, the plot is generic enough that it can work with anything, from horror books to sci-fi action, mistery and perhaps even comedy.

Been thinking of making the next spin-off black & white with minor drops of other colors to add more variety to the game dungeon.

I say you do green except for certain scenes/characters, that have a different color palette to increase the impact they cause.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Well, the plot is generic enough that it can work with anything, from horror books to sci-fi action, mistery and perhaps even comedy.

True, but it boils down to the execution, e.g. 'a person travels in time to do X' can lead to Terminator, Shadow of Memories, Back to the Future or even Les Visiteurs.
I'd rather have a minimal story with a generic premise, but complex gameplay and good execution of its premise than the other way around.

I say you do green except for certain scenes/characters, that have a different color palette to increase the impact they cause.

We shall see once I get to it. Having a BW palette with minimal colors thrown into the mix makes sense in that spin-off.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Yes, it is alive and getting playable.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Added knockback to ramming attacks. These are useful if you want to push the target away/ram them into something to deal extra damage. Two problems: it has to be a successful ram and your weight needs to be at least double the weight of the target (for now).

If ramming fails (target partially evades the attack), you'll receive a miniscule amount of damage (think both of you scratched each other), and just like in DG1, the ram response is triggered on successful evade.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Doing UI mockups for the inventory. So far so good.

 

[lightbane]

Proper melee weapons when? Will rendering technology be enough to be able to wield heat knives in 1st person games?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Proper melee weapons when? Will rendering technology be enough to be able to wield heat knives in 1st person games?

Never, unless they also have a limited amount of power. Otherwise it breaks the 'every action has a price, each resource is finite' rule and does not belong in DG games.

 

[lightbane]

I guess you can make them breakable then?
You know your robot sucks when even a Zaku I is better equipped than yours.