Decline Now that the dust has settled, can we admit that Disco Elysium is decline?

[TheImplodingVoice]

At the rate she's going with ignoring users. There is going to be no one left for her to reply to or put on her ignore list.

 

[Prime Junta]

At the rate she's going with ignoring users. There is going to be no one left for her to reply to or put on her ignore list.

I blocked everybody on Twitter once. It made for a much less stressful experience.

 

[Prime Junta]

At the rate she's going with ignoring users. There is going to be no one left for her to reply to or put on her ignore list.

I blocked everybody on Twitter once. It made for a much less stressful experience.

Shout into your toilet if you don't want anybody to react, same experience, similar smell, you save electricity

I never tweet.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Didn't read your take on Disco, only on ATOM, but I think it is saying that the game is awesome, because this is awesome and everybody need to buy Disco Elysium and vote for it as GOTY.

Read it now, zoomer.

Ok, suomi.

 

[Atchodas]

Its time for Sunday morning cup of

You guys never fail to deliver

 

[V_K]

So if an RPG offers a non-combat path through the game, then that is like a non-RPG minigame or what? The combat mechanics in RPGs are not distinctive and therefore cannot serve to differentiate them from other genres, unless we turn RPGs into a sub-genre. The distinctive aspect is a stats and skills system that link to any type of actions the system wants to explore.

Video Games became appealing as a medium because the platform offered an A.I opponent to challenge the player - RPGs benefit from this greatly because PnP counterparts can only offer so much challenge outside roleplay, CRPGs can give both roleplay and a tactical challenge. Whether it'd be Rtwp, Turn-based, FPP, FPP-with pause etc - whatever a dev chooses (Disco Homos will just dismiss the appeal of tactics as "violent combat porn" or some shit - because they are highbrow ponces)

You're confusing the origin of gaming's appeal with a definitional question. Yet you also separate roleplaying from tactics in your response, which was more or less my argument to begin with. Combat is not necessary for roleplaying to take place. That doesn't mean it can't provide enjoyment or that it can't be a major element of a good RPG. The issue is that so many RPGs have devolved into fetch and kill without much exploring other possibilities. As I've said elsewhere, I don't view DE as a model for all RPGs to emulate, it just turns the character-building and interactions of standard RPGs on their head and shows what would be possible if designers pushed themselves to be more creative.

The debate of "story-fag vs. combatfag" is not addressing the real issue of what DE has contributed to the genre. 99 percent of all RPGs will have action or strategy mechanics as core systems. But what we might see is a greater range of roleplaying possibilities and more attention paid to the craft of writing. I don't think anyone loses here, but for some DE has obviously committed the cardinal sin of being both non-traditional and popular.

Have you played The Council? It's another RPG without combat, released a bit earlier - but it does have gameplay, in the form of puzzles, tactical resource management and exploration/investigation - and a character system that feeds into all of that.
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most is that TC was released a year earlier than DE and is a better game (or at least a game), but got none of the recognition just because it didn't have a hipster writer attached to its team.

 

[Harthwain]

Have you played The Council? It's another RPG without combat, released a bit earlier - but it does have gameplay, in the form of puzzles, tactical resource management and exploration/investigation - and a character system that feeds into all of that.
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most is that TC was released a year earlier than DE and is a better game (or at least a game), but got none of the recognition just because it didn't have a hipster writer attached to its team.

The Council didn't have the all-powerful communism and its propaganda machine to back it up. Obviously.

 

[Jenkem]

So if an RPG offers a non-combat path through the game, then that is like a non-RPG minigame or what? The combat mechanics in RPGs are not distinctive and therefore cannot serve to differentiate them from other genres, unless we turn RPGs into a sub-genre. The distinctive aspect is a stats and skills system that link to any type of actions the system wants to explore.

Video Games became appealing as a medium because the platform offered an A.I opponent to challenge the player - RPGs benefit from this greatly because PnP counterparts can only offer so much challenge outside roleplay, CRPGs can give both roleplay and a tactical challenge. Whether it'd be Rtwp, Turn-based, FPP, FPP-with pause etc - whatever a dev chooses (Disco Homos will just dismiss the appeal of tactics as "violent combat porn" or some shit - because they are highbrow ponces)

You're confusing the origin of gaming's appeal with a definitional question. Yet you also separate roleplaying from tactics in your response, which was more or less my argument to begin with. Combat is not necessary for roleplaying to take place. That doesn't mean it can't provide enjoyment or that it can't be a major element of a good RPG. The issue is that so many RPGs have devolved into fetch and kill without much exploring other possibilities. As I've said elsewhere, I don't view DE as a model for all RPGs to emulate, it just turns the character-building and interactions of standard RPGs on their head and shows what would be possible if designers pushed themselves to be more creative.

The debate of "story-fag vs. combatfag" is not addressing the real issue of what DE has contributed to the genre. 99 percent of all RPGs will have action or strategy mechanics as core systems. But what we might see is a greater range of roleplaying possibilities and more attention paid to the craft of writing. I don't think anyone loses here, but for some DE has obviously committed the cardinal sin of being both non-traditional and popular.

Have you played The Council? It's another RPG without combat, released a bit earlier - but it does have gameplay, in the form of puzzles, tactical resource management and exploration/investigation - and a character system that feeds into all of that.
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most is that TC was released a year earlier than DE and is a better game (or at least a game), but got none of the recognition just because it didn't have a hipster writer attached to its team.

The Council is an adventure game.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...elements-set-in-the-late-18th-century.119670/

note which forum it's in.

 

[Stakhanov]

Have you played The Council? It's another RPG without combat, released a bit earlier - but it does have gameplay, in the form of puzzles, tactical resource management and exploration/investigation - and a character system that feeds into all of that.
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most is that TC was released a year earlier than DE and is a better game (or at least a game), but got none of the recognition just because it didn't have a hipster writer attached to its team.

I've bought it but I haven't played it yet. It looks really good though. I think you have a reasonable argument. From a mechanical point of view DE suffers from a lack of depth and replayability, but that is the consequence of having such a detailed and strong narrative. It simply isn't going to have the same impact a second time, but what it did I think it did very well. I would also say that a lot of non-arguments could be avoided if we didn't constantly artificially divide games into separate boxes (story vs. visuals vs. gameplay), because ultimately they all serve a mechanical function and a game is the sum of its parts.

But yeah, reviewers tend to favour games that are easier and present fewer 'bumps'. Innovation in the form of narrative/representation is almost always favoured over mechanics, and many gaming periodicals have been wanting more mainstream recognition and respectability, which a more serious story affords them as an example to point to when explaining games to non-gamers. It is annoying but that's what happens because there are no agreed-upon principles for games criticism.

 

[Egosphere]

It has good art and very good music. The mechanics are threadbare, but the setting and exploration is solid and the story/characters are alright up to (and not including) the merc tribunal. I kept waiting for it to deliver that c&c, but it never materialized. The last 3rd of the game is underwhelming at best. The boat scene is a bit cringe tbh.

It's ok - as a game. As an rpg, it does not provide a character system that is as enjoyably complex and reactive as what you'd find in the fallouts, arcanum, aod, vtmb etc. There's little cake, but a thick layer of icing.

 

[Junmarko]

But yeah, reviewers tend to favour games that are easier and present fewer 'bumps'. Innovation in the form of narrative/representation is almost always favoured over mechanics, and many gaming periodicals have been wanting more mainstream recognition and respectability, which a more serious story affords them as an example to point to when explaining games to non-gamers. It is annoying but that's what happens because there are no agreed-upon principles for games criticism.

So Disco Elysium was designed for casuals and game journalists.

 

[Stakhanov]

But yeah, reviewers tend to favour games that are easier and present fewer 'bumps'. Innovation in the form of narrative/representation is almost always favoured over mechanics, and many gaming periodicals have been wanting more mainstream recognition and respectability, which a more serious story affords them as an example to point to when explaining games to non-gamers. It is annoying but that's what happens because there are no agreed-upon principles for games criticism.

So Disco Elysium was designed for casuals and game journalists.

Chicken and the egg.

I'm not suggesting that it was designed for either. It's a niche indie RPG based on a homebrew tabletop system, I doubt they were thinking anyone beyond a narrow circle of players would take it up. I'm just saying that it had a combination of features that tick certain boxes that those reviewers privilege. Reviewers and casuals even knowing of its existence is a fluke.

 

[Alphons]

There's only one sure way to fight communist VNs- supporting good ol' Western RPGs- if you can't fight directly, support our cause with war bonds!!!

I just bought 12 copies (one for each month) of Outer Worlds on EGS (they blocked my account because I was buying in a bulk, but whatever, it' for the cause).

What have YOU done to fight the RED PLAGUE?

Spoiler

Should have made Uncle Sam poster with Parvati but I'm a lazy fuck. I'm sorry America, I failed u

 

[jebsmoker]

but you could have brought grimoire or the old fallout games in bulk instead. what is wrong with you

 

[Junmarko]

Chicken and the egg. I'm not suggesting that it was designed for either.

You're suggesting game journalists aren't filthy casuals?

 

[Alphons]

grimoire

supporting good ol' Western RPGs

As you can see from the picture above Australia lies in the East- just a bit under RED CHINA. Any game that comes out of Australia is a commie propaganda.

old fallout games

They're old games, plus they're sold on GOG and Steam, which support potato currency which makes them pretty cheap.

By buying on EGS which doesn't support my currency I'm forced to spend more- in turn giving more money to our brave fighters at Obsidian.

 

[V_K]

So if an RPG offers a non-combat path through the game, then that is like a non-RPG minigame or what? The combat mechanics in RPGs are not distinctive and therefore cannot serve to differentiate them from other genres, unless we turn RPGs into a sub-genre. The distinctive aspect is a stats and skills system that link to any type of actions the system wants to explore.

Video Games became appealing as a medium because the platform offered an A.I opponent to challenge the player - RPGs benefit from this greatly because PnP counterparts can only offer so much challenge outside roleplay, CRPGs can give both roleplay and a tactical challenge. Whether it'd be Rtwp, Turn-based, FPP, FPP-with pause etc - whatever a dev chooses (Disco Homos will just dismiss the appeal of tactics as "violent combat porn" or some shit - because they are highbrow ponces)

You're confusing the origin of gaming's appeal with a definitional question. Yet you also separate roleplaying from tactics in your response, which was more or less my argument to begin with. Combat is not necessary for roleplaying to take place. That doesn't mean it can't provide enjoyment or that it can't be a major element of a good RPG. The issue is that so many RPGs have devolved into fetch and kill without much exploring other possibilities. As I've said elsewhere, I don't view DE as a model for all RPGs to emulate, it just turns the character-building and interactions of standard RPGs on their head and shows what would be possible if designers pushed themselves to be more creative.

The debate of "story-fag vs. combatfag" is not addressing the real issue of what DE has contributed to the genre. 99 percent of all RPGs will have action or strategy mechanics as core systems. But what we might see is a greater range of roleplaying possibilities and more attention paid to the craft of writing. I don't think anyone loses here, but for some DE has obviously committed the cardinal sin of being both non-traditional and popular.

Have you played The Council? It's another RPG without combat, released a bit earlier - but it does have gameplay, in the form of puzzles, tactical resource management and exploration/investigation - and a character system that feeds into all of that.
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most is that TC was released a year earlier than DE and is a better game (or at least a game), but got none of the recognition just because it didn't have a hipster writer attached to its team.

The Council is an adventure game.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...elements-set-in-the-late-18th-century.119670/

note which forum it's in.

It's a hybrid. You have character development, alternative solutions (tied to character skills) and proper C&Cs - there's around 15-20 ways the ending can play out depending on your actions in the course of the game.

 

[Terenty]

By buying on EGS which doesn't support my currency I'm forced to spend more- in turn giving more money to our brave fighters at Obsidian.

I hope you are joking. Did you really buy that piece of shit 12 times? Lol

 

[Alphons]

What's wrong with role-playing a leftist? I play as Skaven in Total War: Warhammer, and nobody accuses me of being a radical Darvinist for it. That's the beauty of games in general: you can be a person you are not in real life.

I accuse you of being a closet furry!!!
Why else would you play as anything else but a PURE HUMAN.

 

[Sigourn]

Here OP, you dropped this:

Spoiler

Semi-interesting story bogged down by reddit-tier political gommentary, a true lack of choice & consequences, progression railroaded behind repeatable skill checks, and an anticlimactic ending. The only reason it gets as much traction around here is twofold: First, the absolutely abysmal state of CRPGs (or CRPG-Likes in DE's case) and second, the propaganda efforts of the Disco cabal of communists, socialists, and anarcho-syndicalists. These people are willing to lie, cheat and steal if it means duping another person into accepting their ideology.

They tried to tell us the game had "immense C&C" when the consequences boil down mostly to being treated to a different piece of interrupting flavor text rather than anything actually substantial. They claim the game has a plethora of ideologies to choose from, but the only ideas that are written with any honesty are leftist ideologies, whereas anything to the right of Stalin is derided and clearly written by people whose entire understanding of right-wing ideologies comes from /r/chapotraphouse memes.

The game is also pushed and praised by the Marxist-Leninist GAMES MEDIA, which is clearly understood to be a source of decline, not only in crpgs, but in all of gaming. And yet in this instance, many on the codex are in lock step with the Lügenspielpresse. An influx of Marxist sympathizers have been slowly infiltrating this website over the last few years in a concerted effort to spread decline.

When The Outer Worlds was praised by the media, the codex laughed. When Divinity: OS was praised by the media, the codex cringed. But now, when the praises are lavished on the latest adventure game-cum-visual novel solely based on its political leanings, many on the Codex celebrated. Is this where RPG Codex is, now? Purveyors of milquetoast CRPGS? A slightly edgier RPGWatch?

IF YOU SEE SOMEONE PRAISING DISCO ELYSIUM, UPDATE YOUR .TXT, BECAUSE REST ASSURED THEY'VE ALREADY UPDATED THEIRS.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Remind me why should I care a bunch of tryhards don't like DE.

The argument is that it is not an RPG, not whether the game is good or not.

I don't think so, the thread name implies DE is "decline". That's such a far-fetched thing to say about this game precisely, that it doesn't even merit a response

 

[V_K]

Remind me why should I care a bunch of tryhards don't like DE.

The argument is that it is not an RPG, not whether the game is good or not.

I don't think so, the thread name implies DE is "decline". That's such a far-fetched thing to say about this game precisely, that it doesn't even merit a response

It's decline in the same way Dear Esther is decline.

 

[AwesomeButton]

At the rate she's going with ignoring users. There is going to be no one left for her to reply to or put on her ignore list.

What is she even doing on the Codex? Who comes to the Codex in order to put people on ignore? :D

At the rate she's going with ignoring users. There is going to be no one left for her to reply to or put on her ignore list.

I blocked everybody on Twitter once. It made for a much less stressful experience.

Shout into your toilet if you don't want anybody to react, same experience, similar smell, you save electricity

I never tweet.

 

[Strange Fellow]

What is she even doing on the Codex?

Looking for attention. Same as that other guy, I don't remember his name, it was so long ago...

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's decline in the same way Dear Esther is decline.

Who is she? Lilura's sister?

Spoiler

Just kidding, I know Dear Esther, but I think that comparison is exaggerated.