Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Oblivion skill list?

MrSmileyFaceDude

Bethesda Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
716
Balor said:
Not exactly.
Haft - means LONG handle.
Hafts are on maces, axes, etc - which describes the skillset perfectly, right? Anyway, it cannot get any more stupid then blunt.
And for bladed weapons - sorry, what we have there is HILT.
And spears/halbers are POLE-arms.
Now, I hope, it makes sense now?

Dictionary.com
1. A handle or hilt, especially the handle of a tool or weapon.2. the handle of a weapon or tool. 3. a handle as of a dagger

Merriam-Wesbster
the handle of a weapon or tool

YourDictionary.com
A handle or hilt, especially the handle of a tool or weapon.

Encarta
handle: the handle of a knife, ax, or other weapon or tool ( literary )

AskOxford.com
the handle of a knife, axe, or spear.

Wordsmyth.com
a handle or hilt, as of a weapon or cutting tool.

Bartleby.com
A handle or hilt, especially the handle of a tool or weapon.

InfoPlease.com
a handle, esp. of a knife, sword, or dagger.

OneLook.com
1. A dwelling. 2. A handle; that part of an instrument or vessel taken into the hand, and by which it is held and used; -- said chiefly of a knife, sword, or dagger; the hilt.

The 1913 version of Webster Dictionary
A handle; that part of an instrument or vessel taken into the hand, and by which it is held and used; -- said chiefly of a knife, sword, or dagger; the hilt.

Rhymezone.com
the handle of a weapon or tool

AllWords.com
A handle of a knife, sword, axe, etc.

LookWayUp.com
the handle of a weapon or tool.

You were saying?
 

Chefe

Erudite
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
4,731
Me and my crack team have used our super sleuthing skills to scour the internet and find the true answer!

It seems that "hafted" comes from the Old English world "hæft" (to lift) and simply means a handle or hit, but the world is traditionally associated with the handle or hilt of tools and weapons.

However, also traditionally, such weapons as maces and axes are considered to be hafted. I haven't come across any l33t weapon sites that lists swords as hafted, but I have seen Polearms listed as being hafted a few times.

My conclusion? Labeling axes or spears as Blunt is just plain dumb, unless you're going to make them all unsharpened. Any name, even hafted, would suffice.

TEH MISTARY IZ SOLVD!
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
So, the "longhandledweapon" skill it is then! :lol:

I still think that hafted would be better than blunt as I said in my previous post - make that (or another) word your own. Or you could just make your own word up I suppose.. :P

H.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
How about "The Super Bundle" skill? More skillpoint savings from Bethesda! Invest into Hammers and get Axes for free!
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
I was saying This.
And what you'll object about handle of a sword being called hilt in 99.9% of the time?
And, again, spears/halberds are polearms.
So, you insist on calling goddamn axes blunt, yet spitting hairs about hilts of swords being called hafts sometimes, somewhere?
I guess you just trying to cover your (admit it, damn it!) stupid choice of a weapon name. Oh heck, I'll make 'Blunt to hafted' mod the very day Oblivion will ship.
I wonder how much downloads it will feature.
P.S.
I bet such obvious source as wikipedia was not mentioned for the very above reason.
 

MrSmileyFaceDude

Bethesda Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
716
I'm not insisting on anything except that "hafted weapons" includes bladed weapons, and there's already a separate skill for those. I made no comment on the name of the combined blunt/axe skill.
 

TheGreatGodPan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
1,762
Swords may be hafted, but they are also blades, and most users will probably know that is where they will fall under. Nobody will think that axes or spears would fall under the blunt category.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Too bad axes have a blade as well and for some reason are blunt weapons, not halfted or bladed weapons.

We comment of how misleading the skill name is and how halfted is a better name (at least makes people read what is supposed to cover instead of just assuming), you on the other hand are making a rackus over how halfted is a bad name.

That is defending the blunt choice because optimal we would keep axes under its own category, we only argue that halfted is a better choice compared to blunt.
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Yea, but please ask ANYONE from, say, SCA - will they consider swords hafted?
No, swords are not considered hafted weapons. At least, they are never called such.
And, again, don't you think while hafted MAY (but that's again, splitting hairs) include swords, but "Blunt" by no means uncludes Axes, unless you wear them down, of course? :)
0.01% chance of swords being referred as hafted (which is wrong) VS 100% chance of axes being called blunt (which does not sounds like truth either).
Ok, you may call them whatever you wish. Up to and including "Metal chunks on a stick'.
I'm correcting that the very day I'll get my hands on Oblivion, unless someone else will fix it before me - I'm quite sure that it's so obvious that such a mod will come out in a few days.
However renaming it themselves would remove one of the reasons to scoff at your company.
You don't care? Fine, then.
You must be kinda get used to that already. One drop more, one less...
 

Zli

Novice
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
93
Location
BG, Serbia
Guys, isn't it obvious the skill won't be named Blunt? I mean
MSFD said:
I'm not insisting on anything except that "hafted weapons" includes bladed weapons, and there's already a separate skill for those. I made no comment on the name of the combined blunt/axe skill.
Now, if MSFD called it 'blunt' out of habbit, or if they're changing the name because of the objections, I don't know. But it looks to me like blunt's out.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Overall I agree they went a bit over the top with the simplification of the skill system. It might still WORK well, and I assume it will still allow me to form a character to my liking, but overall it seems to create as many problems as it solves by combining too much stuff into single categorys). In its favor, I perceive the TES system as one that mostly works "behind the scenes" so it is not necessarily so terrible when it's simplifyed to an extent. On the other hand, for the very same reason, I don't see that much need to simplify it to begin with. A crosstraining mechanism WOULD in my opinion have been the better way to go (like one skill point in short blades grants 1/5th skill points in long blades, to a maximum of 20 and vice versa - etc.).
I would also like to mention that I think the new perk system is an excellent addition though, that may quite make up for some of the streamlining. However, I wish they had made the perks separate from skill progression: things you could aquire through quests or trainers and that require a minimum skill, but are not granted automatically.
 

Chefe

Erudite
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
4,731
GhanBuriGhan said:
I would also like to mention that I think the new perk system is an excellent addition though, that may quite make up for some of the streamlining. However, I wish they had made the perks separate from skill progression: things you could aquire through quests or trainers and that require a minimum skill, but are not granted automatically.

Kind of like.... Arcanum? :D

I like that idea. Makes more sense. Too bad it doesn't work that way.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
angler said:
GhanBuriGhan said:
I would also like to mention that I think the new perk system is an excellent addition though, that may quite make up for some of the streamlining. However, I wish they had made the perks separate from skill progression: things you could aquire through quests or trainers and that require a minimum skill, but are not granted automatically.

Kind of like.... Arcanum? :D

I like that idea. Makes more sense. Too bad it doesn't work that way.

It might when I get my hands on that CS... If it allows to mess with that part.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,343
MrSmileyFaceDude said:
You were saying?
He was saying that "Blunt" is a dumb name for weapons that have sharp pointy bits. I'm inclined to agree with him.
 

Dark Elf

Erudite
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
1,617
Location
Sweden
Why not call the skill "Bashing Weapons"? Granted, you could bash with a sword, but I don't think that's their primary purpose. But you do bash things with maces and sledges, as well as axes, so it makes sense. Of course, I can't see where spears would fit in my reasoning, but meh.
 

Tintin

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
1,480
I think it's because the classification goes by what the damaging part of the weapon is. There's Blade weapons, and blunt weapons. Blade weapons are swords and daggers which are bladed and attack with sharp pointy things, and blunts are thrown with force at the enemy. Both describe what kind of attack the weapon does.

With an axe, it has a blade, but it is not used like swords, it is more used like another blunt weapon. If they put them in Blades, then surely there would be a big uproar, and it is just a stupid thing to do anyways. The only thing left to do is put it in blunt, which makes sense since that's how you use them.

You could change the name to Hafted or whatever, and I'm sure the devs aren't complete idiots who never even questioned the idea of having axes in blunt categories, I just think they outweighed one issue over the other. I'm pretty sure it's because they wanted to keep the names describing the same part of the weapon for classificiation. Weapons with Blades, weapons with Blunts.
 

MrSmileyFaceDude

Bethesda Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
716
DarkUnderlord said:
MrSmileyFaceDude said:
You were saying?
He was saying that "Blunt" is a dumb name for weapons that have sharp pointy bits. I'm inclined to agree with him.

No, he was saying that "haft" and "hilt" were not synonyms. But they are, as the dictionary references I posted bear out.

However, after further research and discussion, I agree that the term "hafted weapons" does indeed exist to distinguish axes and maces & such from bladed weapons. So my apologies to Balor.
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Heh, looks like the forests must be quickly running out of bears - yet an other guy admitted being wrong at the Codex, and even apologized for it!
Oh wait, he did it before... and not that MrSmileyFaceDude can be called a 100% Codexer (perhaps even he'll take offence at being called one, hee-hee)... so...
Oh well, it's all nice, but unless skill name will indeed be changed to "hafted" ingame, it's was pretty pointless anyway.
It's nice to hear our oppinions heard and recognized for a change, though.
*bows to MSFD"
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Um?
So what?
I meant THAT particular forum, and question that were voiced there. (If I understood your post properly).
If all of them were properly addressed in Oblivion, it, I'm sure of it, would have made P:T look like Diablo in comparison :).
(Yea, I know it'll never happen and I'm exaggerating. One can dream, allright?)
 

Tintin

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
1,480
I think he's saying anyone who "bows to MFSD" is a rabid Elder Scrolls fan and thus must be thrown away into the Elder Scrolls forums.

:roll:
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
MrSmileyFaceDude said:
However, after further research and discussion, I agree that the term "hafted weapons" does indeed exist to distinguish axes and maces & such from bladed weapons.

Hooray! After spending all 2 pages of a thread on skills, we have determined absolutely nothing about an alternative name for an utterly daft conflation of skills.

Now - how about some 'research and discussion' on how it is that training with a dagger will raise your skill with a two-handed sword, but training with a two-handed axe will not.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom