Gothic Oblivion vs Gothic 3: which is worse and why? DISCUSS!!

[Skinwalker]

The two most disappointing RPG sequels of all time. The two open-world games that codified the formula (later picked up by Ubisoft) of dumbed-down quest-compass endlessly repeated generic content.


Which one do you hate the most?

Spoiler

For me, it's Gothic 3. After two solid games of handcrafted open-worlds which scaled perfectly to the amount of interesting content they had, Pirania Bytes shat out an atrocity where every region is a copy-pasted checklist of generic things. It was also very clearly unfinished (perhaps they were going to make a good game, and were rushed by the publisher to compete with oblubu?) I uninstalled the game in disgust after about ten hours and never went back.

Oblivion I uninstalled after even less gameplay time, but Moronwind was never the complete and polished experience that Gothic 1&2 were, and I never really cared about daggerfall or arena, which were already ancient in the 00s. I had fewer expectations, and thus was less disappointed.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Gothic 3 because unlike Morrowind, Gothic/Gothic 2 are actually amazing games. The contrast is jarring.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Absolutely Oblivion. Gothic 3 was a game on the right track, with all the correct game-design ideas and excellent handcrafted world design, but was unfinished because of the publisher. Also it still was great; it just didn't fulfill its potential. After all these years, I still have a good grasp on what Myrtana, Varrant and Nordmar were like. If you put me in the game without a map, I would be able to find my way around.

Seriously, this consensus that Gothic 3 was fundamentally horrible needs some serious reevaluation.

On the other hand, Oblivion was built on wrong foundations and there is no fixing it. The horrible level scaling and copy-pasted environments alone should prove that. All I remember from that game is "medieval towns + greenery+ spooky dark places". Oblivion did fulfill its potential, but it was still shit and still an inferior experience compared to Gothic 3.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Absolutely Oblivion. Gothic 3 was a game on the right track, with all the correct game-design ideas and excellent handcrafted world design, but was unfinished because of the publisher. Also it still was great; it just didn't fulfill its potential. After all these years, I still have a good grasp on what Myrtana, Varrant and Nordmar were like. If you put me in the game without a map, I would be able to find my way around.

Seriously, this consensus that Gothic 3 was fundamentally horrible needs some serious reevaluation.

On the other hand, Oblivion was built on wrong foundations and there is no fixing it. The horrible level scaling and copy-pasted environments alone should prove that. All I remember from that game is "medieval towns + greenery+ spooky dark places". Oblivion did fulfill its potential, but it was still shit and still an inferior experience compared to Gothic 3.

There is not a single redeemable aspect of Gothic 3 except the music. And even then, that music does not belong in a Gothic game, being followed around by an orchestra everywhere you go. Stop coping.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Absolutely Oblivion. Gothic 3 was a game on the right track, with all the correct game-design ideas and excellent handcrafted world design, but was unfinished because of the publisher. Also it still was great; it just didn't fulfill its potential. After all these years, I still have a good grasp on what Myrtana, Varrant and Nordmar were like. If you put me in the game without a map, I would be able to find my way around.

Seriously, this consensus that Gothic 3 was fundamentally horrible needs some serious reevaluation.

On the other hand, Oblivion was built on wrong foundations and there is no fixing it. The horrible level scaling and copy-pasted environments alone should prove that. All I remember from that game is "medieval towns + greenery+ spooky dark places". Oblivion did fulfill its potential, but it was still shit and still an inferior experience compared to Gothic 3.

There is not a single redeemable aspect of Gothic 3 except the music. And even then, that music does not belong in a Gothic game, being followed around by an orchestra everywhere you go. Stop coping.

Watch this if you got the time. He explains what makes the game so good.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Graphics - fucking lol

World Design - There's not even a dock on what's supposed to be the capital. Huge open swaths of land that have nothing but fetch quests that don't have even a small amount of impact (the turnips quest in G2 is better designed than 99.9% of Gothic 3). I've also had better designed worlds in the previous 2 games so what do I care that Gothic 3 is bigger? Plus, this retard youtuber overstates the subtlety of this game guiding you without telling you lol This is actually one of the worse parts of Gothic 3. Go talk to Lester on the beach!

Largescale Battles - fucking lol

Music Atmosphere - literally already talked about that

That's the best you can do? And it's from a retard youtuber no less. Listen, you can like shit games but don't come to me with cope.

Gothic 3 is fundamentally broken. No amount of modding or cope can fix that mess.

 

[Chuck Norris]

World Design - There's not even a dock on what's supposed to be the capital. Huge open swaths of land that have nothing but fetch quests that don't have even a small amount of impact (the turnips quest in G2 is better designed than 99.9% of Gothic 3). I've also had better designed worlds in the previous 2 games so what do I care that Gothic 3 is bigger? Plus, this retard youtuber overstates the subtlety of this game guiding you without telling you lol This is actually one of the worse parts of Gothic 3. Go talk to Lester on the beach!

You're being reductionist here. There are fetch quests (which RPG doesn't have them?), but a lot of quests in the game are intertwined with the faction system, which is one of the most consequence-heavy faction systems in any RPG, because it ultimately ends with you massacring every NPC in the cities and settlements belonging to the opposite side. So doing favors for orcs or rebels and getting bigger assignments damaging the other side is anything but trivial, as you suggest.

Also, saying Gothic 3's world is "huge open swaths of land with nothing but fetch quests" is unfair. All of the places in the game have been designed with unique features, so you can remember them more easily. Hell, as the guy shows in the video, even the tree trunks look unique.

Also the statement above does not even apply to Nordmar, because it was an infamously convoluted place with a lot of verticality. It's not "Open" at all. Only Myrtana and Varrant are.

Seriously, Gothic 3's map is a joy to explore, unlike Oblivion. But you have to engage with the world and get immersed in it.

Music Atmosphere - literally already talked about that

Ok, so you agree at least the atmosphere - with music being a huge contributing factor - is there.

That's huge in itself. Not many "atmospheric" RPGs around. So if Gothic 3 managed to be that, that's a redeeming point right there.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

You're being reductionist here. There are fetch quests (which RPG doesn't have them?), but a lot of quests in the game are intertwined with the faction system, which is one of the most consequence-heavy faction systems in any RPG, because it ultimately ends with you massacring every NPC in the cities and settlements belonging to the opposite side. So doing favors for orcs or rebels and getting bigger assignments damaging the other side is anything but trivial, as you suggest.

The faction system where it's completely gamified and everyone knows you killed someone even if no one saw you do it? A faction system that exists only because of the destruction of all world building done in previous 2 games?

Also, saying Gothic 3's world is "huge open swaths of land with nothing but fetch quests" is unfair. All of the places in the game have been designed with unique features, so you can remember them more easily. Hell, as the guy shows in the video, even the tree trunks look unique.

Also the statement above does not even apply to Nordmar, because it was an infamously convoluted place with a lot of verticality. It's not "Open" at all. Only Myrtana and Varrant are.

Seriously, Gothic 3's map is a joy to explore, unlike Oblivion. But you have to engage with the world and get immersed in it.

Why are you so obsessed with that guys video? It's shit. If you want to talk about videos, there are far better explained and constructed videos about how shit Gothic 3 is.

Also lol you talk about trees. I talk about elements (visually) that literally do not make sense in the world. Which is more important?

With how much you enjoyed such a bland, slog of a game I'm surprised you're not a fan of TES.

Ok, so you agree at least the atmosphere - with music being a huge contributing factor - is there.

That's huge in itself. Not many "atmospheric" RPGs around. So if Gothic 3 managed to be that, that's a redeeming point right there.

No, I said the music doesn't fit, especially the combat music. Every single track in Gothic 1+2 adds to the atmosphere and immersion. It's perfect in it's subtlety. It plays a role of enhancing the experience & atmosphere of what you're already doing. Gothic 3 relies on the music to illustrate the experience, compensating for what the game lacks. Despite majority of it being good music, it doesn't fit and doesn't earn points just because of that. I'm playing a game, not listening to an album.

 

[the mole]

oblivion was like my first open world rpg so it can't be worse than oldfagslop

keep in mind I never played gothic 3 my vote is based entirely on nostalgia for oblivion, the level scaling was trash but everything else about it was good

in true codexian fashion then it should be one of the best games of all time because nonsensical story games like planescape and disco elysium are rated highly

back then bethesda was still somewhat trying to make the game fun

 

[the mole]

The two most disappointing RPG sequels of all time. The two open-world games that codified the formula (later picked up by Ubisoft) of dumbed-down quest-compass endlessly repeated generic content.


Which one do you hate the most?

Spoiler

For me, it's Gothic 3. After two solid games of handcrafted open-worlds which scaled perfectly to the amount of interesting content they had, Pirania Bytes shat out an atrocity where every region is a copy-pasted checklist of generic things. It was also very clearly unfinished (perhaps they were going to make a good game, and were rushed by the publisher to compete with oblubu?) I uninstalled the game in disgust after about ten hours and never went back.

Oblivion I uninstalled after even less gameplay time, but Moronwind was never the complete and polished experience that Gothic 1&2 were, and I never really cared about daggerfall or arena, which were already ancient in the 00s. I had fewer expectations, and thus was less disappointed.

personally my 2 most dissapointing games of all time were fallout 4 and skyrim, they weren't even rpgs anymore really

it basically can't get any worse and still be called an rpg

fallout 3 was atleast moderately fun even if it was nonsense, oblivion had awful level scaling but the rest of the game was good

skyrim and fo4 have no redeeming qualities, and they are barely rpgs

 

[Cryomancer]

Gothic 3 is unpolished. But has good ideas. Oblivion due lv scaling is shit.

 

[Skinwalker]

personally my 2 most dissapointing games of all time were fallout 4 and skyrim, they weren't even rpgs anymore really

Skyrimjob is considerably better than Oblubu, and Failout 4 is merely a sequel to Failout 3, which is merely Oblubu with guns.

 

[the mole]

personally my 2 most dissapointing games of all time were fallout 4 and skyrim, they weren't even rpgs anymore really

Skyrimjob is considerably better than Oblubu, and Failout 4 is merely a sequel to Failout 3, which is merely Oblubu with guns.

oblivion is still basically morrowind but with dogshit level scaling

>but muh levitation

you can jump like 100 feet in the air

skyrim, removed acrobatics, somehow made the movement and gameplay more sluggish and clunky, same with fo4, I always feel like an asshole stuck in the mud with these long animations, absolutely ruined it

atleast fo3 and oblivion were rpgs, despite stupid level scaling

 

[Vic]

tits vs ass

discuss!

 

[the mole]

tits vs ass

discuss!

ass 100 percent because it is no longer a social experience, you can't look at a woman's face and tits at the same time, therefore ass always wins

also it takes effort for an ass to be bad, even ugly girls can have decent ass

 

[Snufkin]

Gothic 3 was unplayable even on very good rig when it came out. It took years to get rid of bugs and stutter.

I got pretty far in Oblivion but stoped playing when I ended up with loop of opening inventory and recharging weapon every encounter. Still, playing acrobat Aragornian and jumping on houses was better then "Git gut wolves" of Gothic 3.

 

[Odoryuk]

Oblivion is a cultural phenomenon that still keeps on giving (though probably not in the way the developers intended it to), how can you hate it?

 

[lukaszek]

oblivion brought a lot of fresh ideas to the genre, trying to push it in new direction.
Granted that many didn't work out(level scaling), or sadly did work out and pushed it in wrong direction(quest markers, cosmetic dlcs).

On other hand you have another elex gothic

 

[Skinwalker]

On other hand you have another gothic

If only.

 

[deama]

perhaps they were going to make a good game, and were rushed by the publisher to compete with oblubu?

It was kinda both of their faults, the devs and the publisher.
I believe the game was in development for like 4 years, then the publisher just had enough.
A big part of the problem was that the dev team was very small throughout the development, the lead said that he wanted to keep it small (something like 20-30 people?) to keep it tight. Don't get me wrong, he's right, but you're gonna need more than 4 years for something of that scale.

 

[deama]

Gothic 3 is unpolished. But has good ideas. Oblivion due lv scaling is shit.

I donno, gothic 3 got chest grinding, you get better(kinda) loot the more chests you grind.

 

[sosmoflux]

This Gothic 3 revisionism is hilarious. Possibly one of the most fucked games ever released. A silly facsimile of "gothic" wrapped in an MMO like garbage bag. With combat that, at best, didn't even work. Filled with some of the worst writing, quests, and story ever conceived.

I'm sure it has a special spot for some people. I bought it day one, the box was cool. But comparing this slop to Oblivion is unfair.

 

[Beans00]

Oblivion is crap and really easy due to level scaling.
Gothic 3 is more of a game, in the sense it doesn't completely beat itself at least until you unlock OP magic.
Gothic 3 is way more tedious, especially once you leave the grass area, and go into the desert or snow regions which are 1000x shittier.

I played both games in ~2008 and quit both within an hour or two. I beat both for the first time in 2020 or 2021. Both were bad honestly, I'm not sure if it's better but if I was forced to play one I would pick oblivion just because it's easier and I could rush through it. I'm aware you can glitch gothic 3 and beat it in 10 minutes or something but I don't know how to do that.


Oddly I find both games look pretty nice(not really the character models). The bloom doesn't really bother me, but gothic 1/2 and Morrowind definitely had more unique and distinct art styles.



Chuck Norris or BosanskiSeljak I guess since you're both arguing.



That guy has a pretty good review on the flaws of gothic 3. Mostly complaining about how generic it is and the mmo quest design.

 

[Daemongar]

Played and finished both. Both had a lot of promise.

Gothic 3:

• Original release almost melted my video card when popping into the big battle between orcs and men. Fan made patches years later really did a great job of fixing this.
• Had a lot of interesting cities but always with a walled off section "hey, you can't go here, you don't have..."
• Lots of exploration but wolves were complete bullshit. That was a seriously bad gimmick having to get spears to pass wolves.
• Really made investing in skills a thought provoking endeavor until it wasn't/late game.

Oblvion:

• Original release looked amazing for the time which it was released. No way around this.
• Had a lot of unique/interesting, but empty cities. I remember going to a lot of towns and saying "this looks amazing, where is everyone?"
• Lots of exploration but the set encounters were pretty lame. Guy in leather "give me 100 to pass", later on guy in glass armor "give me 100 to pass"
• Skill system was ok, but not quite what Morrowind was

I'd give the disappointment nod to Oblivion for me. Gothic 3 was bad, but it did keep the spirit of the series - just reached too far. Oblivion felt like a similar but different game than Morrowind, same as Skyrim is a completely different game than Oblivion.

 

[Skinwalker]

Gothic 3 was bad, but it did keep the spirit of the series

No it fucking didn't.