Oblivion: What Will Be Missing?

[Athame]

In spite of the original description for Oblivion which said the Nine Divines would be a joinable faction, now they will not.

The mark and recall spells have been dropped.

Certain skills will no longer available. Skills have been merged like the short and long blade skills. (Sounds like dumbin.....um, I mean 'streamlining' to me.)

Can anyone add to the list of known features, items and whatnot that will be missing or that have been changed from previous Elder Scrolls installments?

 

[Twinfalls]

Staves. Gone, replaced with machine-guns making the game like Hexen for the Xboxers.

Monk class. Gone, since there are no staves, and no religious faction to join.

The promise and potential of Daggerfall. The opportunity to put back, and even expand on, all those cool skills. Climbing, swimming, backstab, languages. Sinking in water when too heavy. Huge cities, many factions, emergent quests, etc.

You see, what's been lost is not just the skiils,factions etc chucked out, but all the potential ones. The direction of Oblivion suggests a huge opportunity cost. For example, not just have we lost individual skills for long and short blade, but the potential for improving each of them, eg making short blade have unique advantages so you would actually choose to specialise in it for a reason.

 

[fnordcircle]

Finally, someone at the codex has had the bravely to step up and give an opinion on Oblivion.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Finally, someone at the codex has had the bravely to step up and give an opinion on Oblivion.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Fnordcircle, blandly sniping at people while offereing nothing to the discussion? I must say, I'm quite disappointed in you, friend, we've come to expect so much more from you.

 

[jiujitsu]

Let's just face it. We are all fucking geeks and there aren't enough of us to get us what we want. There is no money in our tastes.

Regular people don't like complex video games. They have small brains and can't handle learning all the stuff. They are ammused by simple things like a 'ball' and 'playing cards.'

Only way is if we all go to college to become game developers and businessmen. Then we get into several businesses so that we can support our doomed uber rpg that won't sell, but will kick all sorts of ass.

Who's with me?!

 

[Twinfalls]

WHO'S WITH ME, LET'S GO! AAAAAAYYYYyyyyyyy...
(Jiu gets up and leads the charge like John Belushi in Animal House, no-one following)

 

[triCritical]

How about the size of the world. Has there been any information on that. Will it be smaller, or bigger then MW? Will the terrain and people be as diverse and Morrowind? Will there be as many NPC's, and places to go? Will there be a modding utility, and how active will the modders be. The last is very important, because the modders textures and models were far superior to Bethsofts...

I guess we know Daggerfall, is a distant memory, but is the good stuff in Morrowind a distant memory too? Finally, is this an XBOX game ported to the PC, or vice versa. I would say Morrowind felt like a PC game, I don't know if the same is true now given all the MADZ CASH MS probably through at Bethsoft. Personally I hate that direction, I own two consoles, and many console games that they always feel like cheap tripe compared to the quality PC titles.

 

[Athame]

Staves
The promise and potential of Daggerfall. The opportunity to put back, and even expand on, all those cool skills. Climbing, swimming, backstab, languages. Sinking in water when too heavy. Huge cities, many factions, emergent quests, etc.

This is the stuff that gets me. They could have put so many of these elements back in but instead chose to pander to the console kiddies and morons with gimmicks like quest compasses. They tossed horses in but without mounted combat. Here's a quote by MSFD from a thread he started talking about forced reloads and idiot becons for essential NPC's. The question was why such a feature was needed and what would happen if it was taken out:

Or significantly extended development time by forcing the designers to account for every possible contingency?

Frankly, I wouldn't give two shits if they released Oblivion in 2007 so long as it was brought closer to the excellence of Daggerfall but then of course it wouldn't be released in time for the launch of the new X-Box would it?

I hate the current CRPG development environment of rushing to market. I guess it would just kill someone to actually finish a game before they sell it wouldn't it?

 

[Tintin]

Regular people don't like complex video games. They have small brains and can't handle learning all the stuff. They are ammused by simple things like a 'ball' and 'playing cards.'

No offense, but that was a pretty stupid thing to say. Normal people, unlke codexers of course, all those other people, you know, the doctors, the neurosurgeons, the scientists, and all that, damn they're stupid, not l33t like you?

Personally I consider myself a "regular person". Meaning I am not an uber-obsessed rpg crazed fan like most people here are. Personally I don't much care about 300 stats and turned based gameplay and all that. People have lives to attend to, and we play games to have fun. I am having fun when I'm playing a game which is truly an escape into a different world, where the quests are fun (i.e. not wandering around aimlessly trying to find the NPC you need to get to). I like building stats and creating a character. Where it gets annoying is when there are hundreds of stats and all that crap you have to work to and the game becomes more of a chore trying to work them all up rather than fun.

It's not that you are more complex or smarter than the average person. It's just that you like RPG's more. You have a different view of fun, and other people have theirs.

How about the size of the world. Has there been any information on that. Will it be smaller, or bigger then MW?

Oblivion is 1.4 times the size of Morrowind.

 

[Drakron]

You know that reminds me of Wing Commander.

WC IV used a lot of recycled WC3 material (engine) but despite some losses (I missed the cockpit artwork) it have many improvements over WC3 (better ground missions, a larger breaching line depending not only in mission outcome but also in dialogue decisions) and it was still over budget.

WC was the dumbing down of the series ... ground missions gone, spacecraft and payload selection gone, loss of cloaking, a very anoying way to destroy capital ships (yes somewhat of a throw back but still ...), dialogue and mission outcome having less impact that WC III ... yet it had larger and improved FMVs.

Graphics only go as far, WC felt worst because options were gone ... it LOOKED better that WC IV but it was not as good in any other direction.

 

[Drakron]

No offense, but that was a pretty stupid thing to say. Normal people, unlke codexers of course, all those other people, you know, the doctors, the neurosurgeons, the scientists, and all that, damn they're stupid, not l33t like you?

Yes.

Go to a game forum and read the questions ... how many could be anwere by just reading the manual?

Sometimes I feel they sould use my name on the manual since it seens I am the only one that bothers to read it ... its no wonder manuals are being replaced by required tuturials since it seens people HAVE to be forced to use then in order to understand the game mechanics and controls.

Personally I consider myself a "regular person". Meaning I am not an uber-obsessed rpg crazed fan like most people here are.

So get the fuck out, this is not a site for people like you.

Personally I don't much care about 300 stats and turned based gameplay and all that. People have lives to attend to, and we play games to have fun.

Go watch a movie, it seens you REALLY want for games to be like that ... no decisions from your side, no planing, no effort ...

Yes, the "Adverage gamer" we all dread.

I am having fun when I'm playing a game which is truly an escape into a different world, where the quests are fun (i.e. not wandering around aimlessly trying to find the NPC you need to get to). I like building stats and creating a character. Where it gets annoying is when there are hundreds of stats and all that crap you have to work to and the game becomes more of a chore trying to work them all up rather than fun.

The only way it becames a "chore" is when you want to be a master of everything, all possible decisions and options being avaible and your character being able to do then.

You are a mushkin.

It's not that you are more complex or smarter than the average person. It's just that you like RPG's more. You have a different view of fun, and other people have theirs.

And so the name of the site is RPG Codex, not Game Codex or anything else Codex.

The only issue is that Bethsoft is passing Oblivion as a RPG and we have issues with their "streamline" of the game to appeal to non RPG players as yourself.

Guess what?

If Oblivion was passed as a adventure game with FPS combat we would not care, it was not a RPG.

But we have MORONS like you comming here and go about how games are about having fun and how removing RPG elements make the game more fun ... and such people are morons because they are unable to grap the notion this IS a site DEDICATED TO RPGS!

 

[Chefe]

Oblivion is going to be the best RPG ever.

I don't care about Nine Divines or Throwing Stars. I mean, the NPCs will eat! How many games have that? That's cool. Monk classes don't matter, what you gonna save the world with religion? What are you going to name your guy, Jesus or something?

And besides, when you talk about ranged combat, you're realling talking about bows anyways. And staves suck. Daggerfall also sucks as well.

 

[Tintin]

Drakron, the average Codexer, hater of the outside world, his hatred of a game blinding his ability to read.

Regular people don't like complex video games. They have small brains and can't handle learning all the stuff.

Did you read "This is a site dedicated to RPGs and regular people don't like complicated RPGs like we do"? It's okay, it's an easy mistake.

no decisions from your side, no planing, no effort ...

No, decisions, planning, effort which is fun to do/make.

The only way it becames a "chore" is when you want to be a master of everything,

Or when you spend hours trying to find a man who's wandering all over the city.

That's cool.

Yeah, it is.

when you talk about ranged combat, you're realling talking about bows anyways.

Not really.

And staves suck.

Not really.

Daggerfall also sucks as well.

Actually it was pretty good.

 

[Chefe]

Did you read "This is a site dedicated to RPGs and regular people don't like complicated RPGs like we do"? It's okay, it's an easy mistake.

I know right! The RPGCodex is a site about all games! They shouldn't be so closeminded.

No, decisions, planning, effort which is fun to do/make.

Agreed!

Or when you spend hours trying to find a man who's wandering all over the city.

I hated that, it bugged me. I'm glad they added a compass now. I hate having to follow directions... "cross the river and turn left, right"... confusing.

 

[Tintin]

Agreed!

That's nice, since it seems there are quite a few idiots who prefer doing things in a game which are not fun.

I know right! The RPGCodex is a site about all games! They shouldn't be so closeminded.

Actually, I think RPGCodex is about RPG games in specific. But then again, jiujitsu was saying people in general are stupid, and Drakron was implying that I was responding to hatred of Oblivion in general. Any literate person should be able to spot that, but then again having written the sentence quoted above, it makes me wonder....

I hated that, it bugged me. I'm glad they added a compass now. I hate having to follow directions... "cross the river and turn left, right"... confusing.

Actually I like following directions like in Morrowind. But, hey, maybe now we can have a "dynamic direction journal" which changes with their every move!?!!? LyKe!! - "turn left go into bar - oh wait - now go back out and go to his house - oh wait, turn at the market - oh wait"

this is not a site for people like you.

Sure it is, it's a site for everyone who likes to laugh.

 

[Drakron]

Its not that dynamic or sould not be that dynamic, people are usualy at house or at work.

The local tavern and inn are also options, in NPCs have such a high "wandering about" behavior we start to get the imersion failure, the local magister sould not be wandering in the middle of the woods because the Radient AI decide he REALLY wants to drink for a river 34 miles away from his assigned courtouse.

If NPCs go around wandering around aimless that is completly retarded and shows a incredible lack of polish of the game, I know that we cannot expect much from Bethsoft in that aspect but if they are developing tools to cover their lazyness ... well its new grounds in computer gaming, I know they are depending on mods to make Oblivion float but that is really pushing it too far.

And people in general are stupid, that was proven by history time and time again ... sure we have the occasional spark of genious from sone people in some fields but deep down humans are nothing but sheep ... look at then in the mall and supermarket and you will start wondering if they sould not be in a Zoo.

 

[Tintin]

And people in general are stupid, that was proven by history time and time again ... sure we have the occasional spark of genious from sone people in some fields but deep down humans are nothing but sheep ... look at then in the mall and supermarket and you will start wondering if they sould not be in a Zoo.

For every idiot there is a doctor, a teacher, someone with intelligence.

And I hope you are not suggesting the people here at RPG Codex are "the occasional spark of genious from sone people in some fields". If anything you are part of the sheep. You know, sitting around all day playing video games.....

Its not that dynamic or sould not be that dynamic, people are usualy at house or at work.

Or at the bookstore buying books...
Or walking outside for some fresh air...
Or at the bar for a drink...
Or at the grocers to buy groceries...
Or at the marketplace....
Or visiting a friend...
Or talking to others on the streets..
Or

On a general evening one could do any one of these things. They may not wander around, but searching every possible locating to find out what he is doing today in the evening will get tiresome very quickly.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

How about the size of the world. Has there been any information on that. Will it be smaller, or bigger then MW? Will the terrain and people be as diverse and Morrowind? Will there be as many NPC's, and places to go? Will there be a modding utility, and how active will the modders be. The last is very important, because the modders textures and models were far superior to Bethsofts...

I guess we know Daggerfall, is a distant memory, but is the good stuff in Morrowind a distant memory too? Finally, is this an XBOX game ported to the PC, or vice versa. I would say Morrowind felt like a PC game, I don't know if the same is true now given all the MADZ CASH MS probably through at Bethsoft. Personally I hate that direction, I own two consoles, and many console games that they always feel like cheap tripe compared to the quality PC titles.

Oblivion's landmass is roughly 16 square miles (Morrowind's was around 10), and that does not include interiors, dungeons, or the planes of Oblivion you'll travel to.

The land ranges from marsh to plains to deep forest, high mountains with snow. There are no ashlands or volcanoes.

The PC version will ship with the Elder Scrolls Construction Set, just as Morrowind did.

Oblivion is being developed for PC and Xbox simultaneously. It's neither a PC port nor an Xbox port.

 

[Chefe]

when you talk about ranged combat, you're realling talking about bows anyways.

Not really.

But... but... that's what Gavin said....

 

[Drakron]

For every idiot there is a doctor, a teacher, someone with intelligence.

Doctors are whores of the medical industry, remenber to prescrive "X" and get a invitation to a some beach paradise 5 stars hotel presentation of their latest products, all expenseses are included.

I dont even bother with teachers ... they are underpaid, they have almost no job security and ebd up not giving a fuck, they just spew out what is in the program and prepare studants to pass the tests, they train parrots ... and just because a parrot can speak does not mean it understands.

And I hope you are not suggesting the people here at RPG Codex are "the occasional spark of genious from sone people in some fields". If anything you are part of the sheep. You know, sitting around all day playing video games.....

Yep, I am a sheep and I know that ... the saying "the truth will set you free" is quite exact you know, I know were I am sheepish about but long ago I stop giving a fuck about most things so I am not even a good sheep.

Or at the bookstore buying books...
Or walking outside for some fresh air...
Or at the bar for a drink...
Or at the grocers to buy groceries...
Or at the marketplace....
Or visiting a friend...
Or talking to others on the streets..
Or

I think you are putting too much into what Radient will do, it runs some things but its not going to decide NPC-to-NPC relations, in Oblivions there would be no "friends" besides expecialize events.

Also important NPCs are not likely to wander the streets, they are waiting for someone (us) and so just like you are not driving to Las Vegas the same day you are expecting your wife parents to visit you so the quest NPCs will stay on relative few positions for the player to meet with then.

Also I suspect you are greaty understating the size of towns, some will be big but I doubt we be seeing Vivec size in regular basis, with luck we see some Balmora size towns but most end up being the size of Caldera.

On a general evening one could do any one of these things. They may not wander around, but searching every possible locating to find out what he is doing today in the evening will get tiresome very quickly.

Right because Radient AI is TRUE AI!

I cannot wait unti the game comes out and Radient AI proves to be something close to Gothic 2 ... yes they move but dont expect across the county to visit their parents on a whim or moving Poker night two days.

 

[Tintin]

Doctors are whores of the medical industry, remenber to prescrive "X" and get a invitation to a some beach paradise 5 stars hotel presentation of their latest products, all expenseses are included.

I dont even bother with teachers ... they are underpaid, they have almost no job security and ebd up not giving a fuck, they just spew out what is in the program and prepare studants to pass the tests, they train parrots ... and just because a parrot can speak does not mean it understands.

Wow, well....um..Moon Hoax supporter?

Maybe some teachers are like that, but certainly a good deal still have passion for passing on knowledge...some of the people who I've assisted during my training certainly have that spark.....

but its not going to decide NPC-to-NPC relations

I know that... it was just an example, I didn't mean there were going to be inter-NPC marriage parties and poker nights now...

 

[jiujitsu]

Regular people don't like complex video games. They have small brains and can't handle learning all the stuff. They are ammused by simple things like a 'ball' and 'playing cards.'

No offense, but that was a pretty stupid thing to say. Normal people, unlke codexers of course, all those other people, you know, the doctors, the neurosurgeons, the scientists, and all that, damn they're stupid, not l33t like you?

I was talking about gamers, twit.

 

[Drakron]

Wow, well....um..Moon Hoax supporter?

No, the people that argue about the Moon landing being a hoax and staged are idiots, they pass that out trying to prove they are smarter since they found the elaborate hoax as nobody else (and that includes the CCCP that would be in a prime possition to prove it was faked).

Maybe some teachers are like that, but certainly a good deal still have passion for passing on knowledge...some of the people who I've assisted during my training certainly have that spark.....

Some?

Many ... I dont blame then since they got the short end of the stick in education, I know some are dedicated but those are young and not being into the system long enough to be beaten down by it.

I know that... it was just an example, I didn't mean there were going to be inter-NPC marriage parties and poker nights now...

Because its not, unless it was scripted into the Radient AI as a possible action at that time of day, the "lady sets dog on fire" shows Radient AI basic runs scripts, it cannot make decisions.

That is why NPC location is not a issue, the Radient AI can be set so such NPCs are located on set locations and not allowed to move much making then easy to track.

If I am a UPS delivery guy I expect someone is home and if its not I just go back after slipping the notice, why sould Oblivion give us USP delivery people GPS tracers to be aware of the location of every people we have a package for and why was everyone implanted a GPS tracker?

 

[Chefe]

You're wrong! You're so wrong!

It's not like that at all!