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Oblivion: What Will Be Missing?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Athame, Sep 17, 2005.

  1. Hazelnut Erudite

    Hazelnut
    Joined:
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    Location:
    UK
    I hope that the Oblivion TESCS has a few of the (seemingly) 'easy to add' omissions from the MW scripting - if Beth really have pushed the quests forward in terms of complexity then hopefully the ommisions will have been neccessary - and hence included & working.

    I can understand why some things are hard coded, such as basic game world rules & skills etc. This would be a lot of extra work to make configurable, and of no real use to Beth assuming they design and freeze these systems early. I like the idea of having the CS shipped as the tool *they* needed and I'm happy they want to focus effort on the game instead of adding CS features.

    H.
     
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  2. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    Having "New skills, classes, and spell effects" is quite desirable in an expansion. It can make the entire game new instead of just new areas.
     
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  3. Tintin Arbiter

    Tintin
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    How does that work? People go on the internet and find mods for Morrowind, though why would anyone who doesn't own Morrowind go out to look for mods?, and decide that they like this mod enough to buy the game?
     
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  4. Athame Novice

    Athame
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    *nods*

    Agreed. I think they're overlooking a lot in the way of longevity and overall appeal, of the game and the CS.
     
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  5. Atrokkus Erudite

    Atrokkus
    Joined:
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    It would be better if they focus on CS now, so that it offered lots of functionality in terms of creating your own RPG -- a pure RPG, btw, so that you could create REAL dialogs, make it nonlinear, and create your own worlds, not just new toys in the same kindeygarden. That way, even if the game itself (plot/RP) sucks hard, there still would be a potential for great roleplaying in mods. Just like in NWN.
     
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  6. Tintin Arbiter

    Tintin
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    You're cool.
     
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  7. Chefe Erudite

    Chefe
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    4,731
    Call me crazy, but I still prefer professional work from professional developers over that of amateur modders. I don't spend $50 on a game so I can download work from random kids on the internet.
     
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  8. Balor Arcane

    Balor
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    If you played "Eternum" series of NWN modules for instance (and that's one example of many), and compared that to "work of professionals" like Morrowind, you'd shut your mouth up nice and tight.
    I guess you didn't? It's worth a try, really.
    Those made me to buy NWN, while I absolutely loath ADnD. Quite like P:T. Must mean something, right?
     
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  9. Athame Novice

    Athame
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    Naw, you're not crazy. Silly maybe. ;)

    You've obviously downloaded the wrong Morrowind mods. One of them allows you to join the 6th House; one allows you to actually play a vampire and complete the MQ; a couple of them (One superior to the other) allow you to join the Twin Lamps. There are good mods, you just have to find them in a vast ocean of mediocre ones created by schleps like me. :P
     
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  10. yipsl Scholar

    yipsl
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
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    223
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Also, Shattered Lands wasn't an RPG built on an RTS foundation like Baldur's Gate. It had the feel of a true party based game. The Dagobar's lair was great. The zombie turns out to be the brother of the evil psionic. Also, the arena announcer was such a hoot that I kept telling him how great he was and he kept buying it. When I ran into him later in the desert, I let him go for old times' sake.

    I was really annoyed at BG, BG2 (only played into the first dungeon because I got it used after Morrowind went gold) and Icewind Dale's player character and NPCs talking back to me when I clicked on them like a warcraft minion. That was mainstreaming to attract RTS players, don't you guys see that?

    Also, Wormgod (now VSXX, I think) is actually a Bethsoft dev who likes to mod. My wife, redwoodtreesprite's communicated with him a few times. For every kid who wants an uber Final Fantasy sword, there are several older modders with good amatuer skills, or who are actually professionals who use 3DS Max. That program's used by architects and in other areas than producing 3D models for games. Can't wait till we finally get a student copy. There are also several decent programs that are low cost or free that can be used creatively, not just 3DS Max or Photoshop; there's Paint Shop Pro,Image Forge and Irfanview, for example.

    edited to ask: anyone else here in the path or Rita? We're expecting tropical storm winds here by Saturday afternoon and are stocking up in case of a power outage. The Texas Hill country is about as close as I'd live to the Gulf coast. The way the hurricanes have been the past season or so, you'd think we were living in a Molyneux god game!

    I've always liked the simulation argument, so maybe we are...http://www.simulation-argument.com/

    In all seriousness, though, games do change through the generations. Compared to the RPGs I started player a few years after I left college (only Advent on the mainframe when I was in college), the Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale and Fallouts were mainstream. So, perhaps this change won't be totally bad. I just know it won't be totally good and I preferred when each genre was marketed to its core audience rather than mainstreamed so they all look alike, have identical interfaces and pare down genre related features that non-genre fans don't express an interest in during a market study.

    Those marketing departments are Persian devs, if you know your mythology. Quite evil those.

    How anything can say that this CS dungeon looks like a Morrowind dungeon is beyond me. It looks very Daggerfallish. http://www.morrowind.com/images/codex/t ... n01_lg.jpg

    I'll have to get some screenshots from the game, get my upload them to Photobucket. I have to find a specific dungeon type that is virtually identical to that area in the CS: grey stone, stairways and wall hangings.
     
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  11. Pr()ZaC Scholar

    Pr()ZaC
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
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    431
    Best of luck with Rita. I hope it'll be as powerful as a fart when it reaches the shores.
     
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  12. Chefe Erudite

    Chefe
    Joined:
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    4,731
    I've played a ton of mods for Morrowind. I've probably played many of the same ones you have. The thing is, user created content, to me, feels out of place and doesn't have the same level of polish that the professional work does. Granted, there were many mods in Morrowind that were truly amazing given the confines of the CS, but they felt clunky. Even down to the herbalism mod, which I thought was really cool, but I only used it once and then got rid of it because it just felt out of place.

    The point is I slam down $50 for a game. Not a CS where the only way to get some enjoyment out of it is to download free user-created mods over the internet. I agree with some of the stuff said before how they should add string variables and whatnot to make life easy on the modders, but I don't agree that the CS should be the main focus of the package. It's a nice extra, but I payed for a professionaly developed game (again, the only reason this is an issue is because it costs $50 - $60).
     
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  13. Balor Arcane

    Balor
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    5,182
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    Herbalism? What kind of herbalism? Mine original one, or one of the 'advanced' ones? (While I'm quite familliar with the former :) - I'm not too familiar with the latter).
    I just wonder, how 'out of place' it may be, comparing to the other content of the game?
    Too much realism, cause really picking up plants instead of opening (!) those stands out in comparison of general "wackiness" of the game in general? :D

    Well, I can understand you.
    After all, you indeed paid for a game in the box, not some stuff you can possibly download, and have to mess for hours to get working straight without conflicts, only to find out that some mod has a error that makes it unplayable, cause modder didn't have enough time to test it...
    On the other hand, another (and large!) bunch of people really enjoy the process of digging in this 'pile of manure' in search of pearls.
    And another loves to churn them out.
    All in all, I do agree that they shouldn't dedicate more amount of efforts into CS then into game - I'm (none, I guess) NOT talking about THAT. I'm not that crazy.
    Just hear what modders got to say more, and fixing/adding SOME stuff from time to time.
    I'm not talking about new graphics, animations, engine features - just, in 99.99% of cases - unlocking hardcoded stuff that is 'one step away', and, while does not pose a slightest problem for devs with access to source, is an impassable barrier for us.
    Oh damn, its' like 10th time I repeat that. It's getting old.
     
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  14. Rat Keeng Liturgist

    Rat Keeng
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Messages:
    869
    I like the idea of not having to open the plants to get the ingredients, but all the extra stuff, with the extra skill, the plants disappearing, plant seeds and what not, that i could do without. I ended up makeing my own version that just added the ingredients from the plants, without all the fancies. Didn't do much good though, i got fed up with the game within the week, so meh :/

    It does make sense that you should be able to add skills with the CS, considering Beth is insistant on removing more and more skills, the more "advanced" their games become.
     
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  15. Athame Novice

    Athame
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
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    72
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    [OT]
    Not me but I figured you might be and PM'd you here and @ ESF. Write me back and let me know you're alright man. ;)
    [/OT]
     
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  16. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    2,027
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    VA, USA
    Mods and plugins were still too hard to organize. Tons of ones that do the same thing and fight each other, and you have to try to find which is better without breaking your game.
     
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  17. Zli Novice

    Zli
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
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    93
    Location:
    BG, Serbia
    Hm, I liked the idea of mods being available, but I never got past the one that made all signposts nice and readable. I dunno... they just didn't have the same feel as the stuff I knew devs put there. So, the CS isn't that much of a selling point for me.

    Pathetic, I know.
     
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  18. triCritical Erudite

    triCritical
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
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    1,329
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    I loved the readable signpost mod and thought they were really well done. Actually, now I think its the best time to play Morrowind, with all the mature mods. Its amazing how much better a lot textures and models are with the amateurs.
     
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  19. yipsl Scholar

    yipsl
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    Central Texas
    I kept the signposts the same, so it was clearly a different world. My favorite mods made the healthy wildlife passive, added Dodge to Unarmored and added new areas like Veldion or quests like Bloody Oath. When I eventually get a dual core Conroe in a year or so, I'll see if that framerate killer Vivec shantytown mod runs better. It was good, but I couldn't stand 5 fps.

    All stocked up for three days if the power goes out Saturday, but Rita's path changed slightly east and it looks like it won't be as bad here. 150 miles from the coast still gets some tropical storm weather and that spawns tornados. There are 45,000 evacuees in town already and I haven't heard from friends caught in "getting out of Houston" traffic since a cell phone call Thursday morning.

    When things like this happen, I wonder why I get so worked up over hobbies and games? Unfortunately, I have to work later than my state agency's emergency closing to finish saves in case they need to restore when they reboot the mainframe Monday. We handle all the student data for Texas colleges and universities.

    At least I'll have plenty of time to study the latest A+ materials. As a hobbyist, I've been building PCs since 1992, but now they're sending me for hardware/software, networking and security certification because we're migrating away from mainframes. I started so long ago that certifications were bupkis and you learned on the job and kept skills up by doing.
     
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  20. Elwro Arcane

    Elwro
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,439
    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    If anyone's looking for good MW mods I'd recommend the biggest Twin Lamps and The Seekers. The latter introduces a new faction and they both have nice quests.
     
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  21. bryce777 Erudite

    bryce777
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    I just thought I would stop in to say tintin must be one of the biggest trolling dipshits I can remember.
     
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  22. Tintin Arbiter

    Tintin
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
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    1,480
    If you call replying to complaints and criticism trolling - well, sure. I could understand why people not agreeing with you would make you feel that way. It's okay, bryce.

    Unless you mean those instances when the previous poster's ego reaches unreplyable heights and forces me to reply with a sarcastic "you're cool".

    Similar to all the sarcastic "oblivion fanboy" "soil erosion" etc. TROLLING!!

    "dipshits". heh....i remember when that was the big insult back in fifth grade....
     
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  23. TheGreatGodPan Arbiter

    TheGreatGodPan
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,762
    I'm no fan of tintin (unless you mean the comic, in which case I am), but your post here is a fine example of trolling dipshittery.
     
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  24. Diogo Ribeiro Erudite

    Diogo Ribeiro
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
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    5,706
    Location:
    Lisboa, Portugal
    Like sorcery, but with shit instead of spells.
     
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  25. bryce777 Erudite

    bryce777
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    Location:
    In my country the system operates YOU
    I just wanted to state my opinion for the record.

    Should I apologize? Am I out of line? I suppose I did not even consider the possibility.

    I just couldn't believe some of the ludicrous nonsense posted, most of it obviously trying to be as contrary as possible. I don't have the energy to go through all 200+ replies and respond point by point, but I felt the deep need within myself to express myself, and the eyerolly emoticon just wasn't gonna be good enough.
     
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