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Oblivion

DraQ

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Mastermind said:
In terms of player effectiveness a mage with a massive weakness spell + a high damage staff is better than any melee character, enchanted weapon or not.
The problem is that usefulness of staves does not in any way depend on character being a mage.
 

Mastermind

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DraQ said:
Mastermind said:
In terms of player effectiveness a mage with a massive weakness spell + a high damage staff is better than any melee character, enchanted weapon or not.
The problem is that usefulness of staves does not in any way depend on character being a mage.

It does. Weakness = at least 200% extra damage, and that's just if you don't abuse weakness amplification. I usually toss a soul trap in the weakness spell too so I can keep the staff firing.
 

DraQ

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Mastermind said:
DraQ said:
Mastermind said:
In terms of player effectiveness a mage with a massive weakness spell + a high damage staff is better than any melee character, enchanted weapon or not.
The problem is that usefulness of staves does not in any way depend on character being a mage.

It does. Weakness = at least 200% extra damage, and that's just if you don't abuse weakness amplification. I usually toss a soul trap in the weakness spell too so I can keep the staff firing.
Weakness also affects enchantments and poisons and staves are broken even without it. They are essentially build-independent magical rocket launchers, otherwise they wouldn't be much different from enchanted weapons and poisons.
 

Dr.Faust

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Replayed morrowind a while back and had a blast. After I had done almost everything there is to do in that game and the expansions I was still starved for more which resulted in me downloading oblivion. I've played it before, but I thought I'd download all of the recommended mods and try to give it another chance. Two days later I was finally done installing mods and setting up the optimal load order and I could start up the game. Turns out no amount of modding can save that game from being so horribly unimaginative and bland.

In short, don't bother.
 

Flanged

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Only reason to ever install Oblivion is to install Nehrim TC over the top of it. And even Nehrim's a bit meh. A great mod, impressive work, but Oblivion's combat is worse than Morrowind's, and can't be fixed, so no.
 

DraQ

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Clockwork Knight said:
Flanged said:
Oblivion's combat is worse than Morrowind'S

lolno
Lolyes.

Armour system is light-years ahead in Morrowind, you don't get damaged by someone stabbing you in the shield with a dagger, you don't get to block huge axes with a dagger of your own, knockdowns are meaningful, attributes play larger role, so enchanting weapon with drain attribute makes sense, archery is viable and bringing a claymore down on someone's bare face actually has an effect it should rather than feeling like trying to kill someone with styrofoam replica. Air sword is low price to pay for all that.

Oblivion's system can only be confused with something workable when it's used for 1-hitting rats at lvl1. Past that point combat overhauls become necessary just to avoid the uncontrollable urge to choke yourself with mouse cord to avoid further exposure to blandness.
 
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Low price for you, air sword makes me wanna avoid combat altogether.

Plus, I think OB's skill perks are nice. Blocking, for example

A Novice is fatigued by blocking, and hand-to-hand blocking against weapons has no effect

An Apprentice is no longer fatigued by blocking

A Journeyman's shield or weapon is no longer damaged when he/she blocks, and opponents may recoil when blocking with hand-to-hand

An Expert blocking with shield has a 25% chance to do a knockback counterattack, staggering the enemy if the shield blow connects

A Master blocking with a shield has an additional 5% chance of disarming the enemy with a successful knockback counterattack
 

DraQ

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Clockwork Knight said:
Low price for you, air sword makes me wanna avoid combat altogether.
Wuss.
:smug:

Play a race with suitable weapon skill bonus, take weapon skill as one of your primary abilities and pick Lover/Warrior sign if it bothers you.
Oh, and don't fight tired.

Plus, I think OB's skill perks are nice.
You mean the ones that grant the same set of completely arbitrary effects to all four offensive skills?

Like when you can stab with mace or sword at 100 and it may paralyse someone and make him to fall over in statue mode?
 
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Yes, those. It's a little nicer than the usual "You hit stronger now".

And my character getting better at MW's combat doesn't keep he enemies from playing air guitar on my body. It seriously cripples my immershun.
 

King Crispy

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Strap Yourselves In
OH GOD

I just looked in my Oblivion mods folder and actually contemplated reinstalling again. What the fuck, guys? Why can't I delete that folder?

Anyway I'm surprised no one mentioned OOO + The Lost Spires. These two mods alone ALMOST make Oblivion worth playing.
 

Sceptic

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DraQ said:
You mean the ones that grant the same set of completely arbitrary effects to all four offensive skills?
You forgot to mention they're also the same perks that make light and heavy armor exactly identical in every way.

Let me repeat thay: PERKS IN OBLIVION MAKE LIGHT AND HEAVY ARMOR EXACTLY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY.

If there is a single perk design that should have made Pete Hines stab himself to death with a spoon, this is it.
 

DraQ

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Sceptic said:
DraQ said:
You mean the ones that grant the same set of completely arbitrary effects to all four offensive skills?
You forgot to mention they're also the same perks that make light and heavy armor exactly identical in every way.

Let me repeat thay: PERKS IN OBLIVION MAKE LIGHT AND HEAVY ARMOR EXACTLY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY.

If there is a single perk design that should have made Pete Hines stab himself to death with a spoon, this is it.
I agree, but macestab for MASSIVE DAMAGE and paralysis comes pretty close, so does discovering that you can actually stab with a dagger no sooner than at skill level 100.

Actually, you have to be irredeemable faggot to be fooled into thinking that oblivious has better combat than Morrowinds clunky and fugly Frankenstein monster of a mechanics for more than, say, 45' of gameplay.

Yes, Morrowind combat is clunky, weak and airsword hurts the immersion a bit. I GET IT. It still has immeasurably richer mechanics and it still cannot compare to sheer derptitude of boots protecting the head or arrow pincushions that remain in almost perfect condition because arrowheads are apparently made of Karach and turn into harmless sticky goo when fired by an inept marksman.

And, no, better swish sound is not enough to turn the tides.
 

Sceptic

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Clockwork Knight said:
Yeah, at Master level your armor rating goes up 50% if you're wearing all light armor.
That's not the problem. The problem is that the increase takes the armor value of glass (strongest light armor) to EXACTLY the same value as daedric (strongest heavy). And in both cases mastery means worn armor has no weight. The two types become literally indistinguishable (and no, you can't even use the "but they look different!!!" argument; they both look like shit). Add to that the identical perks for each and every weapon type (leading to the hilarious mechanics that DraQ just described). The idea of perks for specific skill levels is great, but Bethesda managed to fuck it up in ways that defy any sane man's imagination.

Regarding clunky Morrowind combat, yet it was clunky as hell. It also had much potential for improvement into something good. And improve they did not.
 

tehRPness

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Clockwork Knight said:
Low price for you, air sword makes me wanna avoid combat altogether.

Plus, I think OB's skill perks are nice. Blocking, for example

A Novice is fatigued by blocking, and hand-to-hand blocking against weapons has no effect

An Apprentice is no longer fatigued by blocking

A Journeyman's shield or weapon is no longer damaged when he/she blocks, and opponents may recoil when blocking with hand-to-hand

An Expert blocking with shield has a 25% chance to do a knockback counterattack, staggering the enemy if the shield blow connects

A Master blocking with a shield has an additional 5% chance of disarming the enemy with a successful knockback
counterattack
Having random procs doesn't really add any immersion to me.

The combat is just as clunky in both games IMO, taking into consideration that Morrowind is abit older and more crude than Oblivion. Other than that, all the TES combat is kinda retarded. How real does it feel to have to run back and forth with tiny steps as you stab someone with a dagger, or run sideways, crashing into walls with every single swing of your sword?

I'd probably prefer Morrowind combat, cause at least it isn't claiming to be reinventing the wheel. I don't really mind if combat had lower priority than any other RPG element tbh.

Edited for Type O's
 

racofer

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Excommunicator said:
Oblivion had the worst feel to combat of just about any game I have played.

This.

No amount of mods have managed to fix that, probably because the whole issue lies within the engine itself.

Many time over I imagined that if Oblivion had Dark Messiah's combat feel it would be a quite enjoyable free roaming beat-em-up but... we all know this will never happen even with Skyrim.
 

Mastermind

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Sceptic said:
The problem is that the increase takes the armor value of glass (strongest light armor) to EXACTLY the same value as daedric (strongest heavy). And in both cases mastery means worn armor has no weight. The two types become literally indistinguishable (and no, you can't even use the "but they look different!!!" argument; they both look like shit).

Actually there is one distinguishing factor: glass breaks way, way faster than daedric. At higher levels I can't close an oblivion gate without most,if not all of my glass armor breaking in the process. I usually slap elemental shield sigil stones on my armor anyway so it's not a big deal if all of it breaks, but if one is inclined to use the vastly inferior pure warrior path the game offers, heavy is the better choice.
 

visions

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tehRPness said:
[ How real does it feel to have to run back and forth with tiny steps as you stab someone with a dagger, or run sideways, crashing into walls with every single swing of your sword?

Couldn't you just check "always use best attack" in options? Or maybe this came with Tribunal, I never played Morrowind without it.
 

tehRPness

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Mastermind said:
tehRPness said:
Having random procs doesn't really add any immersion to me.

People who use that word should be shot.
People who presume the word means the same coming from me as from some coked up sub-par game reviewer are probably taking things too seriously and need a chill pill.

visions said:
tehRPness said:
[ How real does it feel to have to run back and forth with tiny steps as you stab someone with a dagger, or run sideways, crashing into walls with every single swing of your sword?

Couldn't you just check "always use best attack" in options? Or maybe this came with Tribunal, I never played Morrowind without it.
You could in MW, which would again remove some 'clunkiness' from it and almost certainly render MW's combat better, or at least more fluid than Ob's. Then again, were it up to me, all RPGs ever made would be turn based and have a fuckton of strategy elements adorning it.
 

tehRPness

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racofer said:
Many time over I imagined that if Oblivion had Dark Messiah's combat feel it would be a quite enjoyable free roaming beat-em-up but... we all know this will never happen even with Skyrim.
Now that would be fucking spectacular. Running around in Russel Crowe mode alone would buy me 40 hours of gameplay. Kicking people down stairs another 40. If there's kids in it, kicking them down stairs 40 more. I may need help.
 

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