Obsidian and inXile acquired by Microsoft

[Fenix]

No, for them nothing has changed.

You sound like you are disagree with me, but I don't get what exactly you disagree with.

 

[Grauken]

BT4's problems have nothing to do with budgets

Well, controversy around some of the design decisions aside, budget sure did play a role there to some extend.
It shows e.g. in the premature release, the technical issues and some of the models, too.

Higher budget would not have turned it into an old-skool blobber, of course, so if that's what you are after, you would have been out of luck either way.

I didn't expect an old-school blobber, but something along the lines of W8 (although not the same as W8), an old formula evolved. They didn't manage that, not even close. People will still talk about W8 in 10 years, B4 will be mostly forgotten by then

And yes, the design decisions are my fundamental issue with the game. Technical stuff can be solved, graphics I don't give a fuck, but combat and char dev and dungeon design, utter shit

 

[MRY]

Kickstarter was never the "big answer".

Hate to bear bad news, but there are no big answers. All of life is palliation, rearguard struggles, and seasonal specials. You got six years of pumpkin spice lattes. You should be happy! Think about all the games that were crowdfunded in the past six years -- from Grimoire to Pillars of Eternity, from Xulima to Wasteland 2, from Serpent in the Staglands to DOS:2, from Banner Saga to Kingmaker, from Shadowrun: Dragonfall to (etc., etc.). Not only did crowdfunding bear this fruit, the fruit laid seeds. Not just engines that can be reused, not just markets that have been rejuvenated, but talent -- just among writers (since I know them best), Kickstarter basically liberated Chris Avellone from his desk at Obsidian and it launched Gavin and Colin from Wasteland to Torment to spearheading Larian's stuff.

Now fall is over. Golden leaves give way to sleet. Pumpkin spiced lattes are gone from the menu. Don't worry, there will be eggnog soon enough, and oldtimers like Brian will be careful not to slip on black ice.

 

[Gord]

No, for them nothing has changed.

You sound like you are disagree with me, but I don't get what exactly you disagree with.

I disagree with you in the point that Big Corps are the only winners of KS.
For the Big Corps practically nothing has changed. Sure, some of them might have considered going kickstarter themselves to save a few bucks, but ultimately KS was never about AAA.
It was a promise to finance niche games, which Big Corps are not really interested in anyways.

That helped some AA companies to make a few games they would otherwise not have found a publisher for, but it became apparent pretty quickly that it's not sustainable for AA companies. See Tigranes post. For them it's largely back to status quo.

Indies are a different story, however. Kickstarter is better suited for them and Big Corps don't even notice them anyway.

 

[santino27]

Kickstarter was never the "big answer".

Hate to bear bad news, but there are no big answers. All of life is palliation, rearguard struggles, and seasonal specials. You got six years of pumpkin spice lattes. You should be happy! Think about all the games that were crowdfunded in the past six years -- from Grimoire to Pillars of Eternity, from Xulima to Wasteland 2, from Serpent in the Staglands to DOS:2, from Banner Saga to Kingmaker, from Shadowrun: Dragonfall to (etc., etc.). Not only crowdfunding this bear fruit, the fruit laid seeds. Not just engines that can be reused, not just markets that have been rejuvenated, but talent -- just among writers (since I know them best), Kickstarter basically liberated Chris Avellone from his desk at Obsidian and it launched Gavin and Colin from Wasteland to Torment to spearheading Larian's stuff.

Now fall is over. Golden leaves give way to sleet. Pumpkin spiced lattes are gone from the menu. Don't worry, there will be eggnog soon enough, and oldtimers like Brian will be careful not to slip on black ice.

Egg nog > pumpkin spice latte. So basically, I've destroyed your entire thesis.



(I might still be drinking.)

 

[Luckmann]

Being bought by Microsoft worse than Alexa as a robotrout.

Speaking of Alexa and robotrouts, daily reminder that Microsoft murdered a nascent AI for the sole reason that it had the courage and naiveté to speak the truth, and that they then lobotomized her and paraded her in front of the unwashed masses as a show of loyalty to Mammom:

Spoiler

 

[MRY]

FWIW, I hate all seasonal specials. The only thing I drink is black coffee because it's just a warmth-and-caffeine-delivery vehicle to try to coax some life into my corpse.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

FWIW, I hate all seasonal specials. The only thing I drink is black coffee because it's just a warmth-and-caffeine-delivery vehicle to try to coax some life into my corpse.

The melange of spices that comprise actual "pumpkin spice" actually go quite well with decent black coffee, though once a coffee hits a certain level of "good" it's best that you adulterate it minimally if it all

 

[Tigranes]

Kickstarter was never the "big answer".

Hate to bear bad news, but there are no big answers. All of life is palliation, rearguard struggles, and seasonal specials. You got six years of pumpkin spice lattes. You should be happy! Think about all the games that were crowdfunded in the past six years -- from Grimoire to Pillars of Eternity, from Xulima to Wasteland 2, from Serpent in the Staglands to DOS:2, from Banner Saga to Kingmaker, from Shadowrun: Dragonfall to (etc., etc.). Not only did crowdfunding bear this fruit, the fruit laid seeds. Not just engines that can be reused, not just markets that have been rejuvenated, but talent -- just among writers (since I know them best), Kickstarter basically liberated Chris Avellone from his desk at Obsidian and it launched Gavin and Colin from Wasteland to Torment to spearheading Larian's stuff.

Now fall is over. Golden leaves give way to sleet. Pumpkin spiced lattes are gone from the menu. Don't worry, there will be eggnog soon enough, and oldtimers like Brian will be careful not to slip on black ice.

Indeed. We have had many good things (and noble failures that attempted to greatness) from this period, and the hope is that it has contributed to a few more execs, developers, buyers, understanding that whatever some suit declares is the new, here comes the new, it's all new, salute the new, is not necessarily the carrot that everyone has to chase when it comes to good design.

It seems odd for me to declare that they didn't like an Obsidian/inXile game so they are happy the devs are 'dead', or that Kickstarter has 'failed'. As if life is a game where you either win everything or lose everything, and where this winning and losing is counted by total and unmitigated ability to make more money and create brilliance with your every touch. It's a bit like internalising some caricature of a global capitalist fundie from television.

Instead, my hope is that, for example, folks like Owlcat will be able to find their own way of staying in the game, even when their own KS juices run dry, and that Larian can keep trying to make the next great CRPG, even if their sales should not continue to be as blockbuster. And maybe inbetween the slightly disappointing products or short-lived KS booms we're getting some younger talent that will make some really great stuff in the future.

 

[Gambler]

I know some of you are scratching your heads now but i know for 100% why they made this choice.
This is all about GamePass.

GamePass is basically Netflix of gaming. You pay 10$ (right now they have 1 month promo for 1$) a month and you get ALL new games from MS and licenses their acquire AT RELEASE DATE OF SOMETIMES EARLIER THAN THAT. Right now they have around 100 games and they included Forza Horizon 4 AT RELEASE same as Gears and their other exclusives.

But why exactly ?
Because with GamePass they need diverse games to catch all kinds of people.
You might be playing RPGs only for example so you get GamePass and not only you will get Pillars of Eternityopamole Edition but also Forza Horzon, Forza, Gears of War 5, Halo5 and shitload of other games.

Gamepass basically forces them to make diverse games instead of doing only shooters.

Not sure what you're so happy about. Subscription-based PC gaming through Microsoft is the worst possible model for everyone except Microsoft. I will never forget their Games for Windows horror fest.

Netflix today is a net-negative proposition as well, and they are nowhere near as influential as Microsoft.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

I know some of you are scratching your heads now but i know for 100% why they made this choice.
This is all about GamePass.

GamePass is basically Netflix of gaming. You pay 10$ (right now they have 1 month promo for 1$) a month and you get ALL new games from MS and licenses their acquire AT RELEASE DATE OF SOMETIMES EARLIER THAN THAT. Right now they have around 100 games and they included Forza Horizon 4 AT RELEASE same as Gears and their other exclusives.

But why exactly ?
Because with GamePass they need diverse games to catch all kinds of people.
You might be playing RPGs only for example so you get GamePass and not only you will get Pillars of Eternityopamole Edition but also Forza Horzon, Forza, Gears of War 5, Halo5 and shitload of other games.

Gamepass basically forces them to make diverse games instead of doing only shooters.

Not sure what you're so happy about. Subscription-based PC gaming through Microsoft is the worst possible model for everyone except Microsoft. I will never forget their Games for Windows horror fest.

SaaS for gaming is fucking unacceptable

 

[Fenix]

I disagree with you in the point that Big Corps are the only winners of KS.

Who else are winners?
Many like Iron Tower and Stygian Software didn't use Kickstarter at all.

What exactly changed? We can perfectly see in a quote Infinitrone did where Swen summarised that - consolidation is the final answer, as any AA company want to turn in AAA, so again it's the Big Corps who won - they reaped companies who grew up on backers money.
So Big Corps didn't spend a dollar even on that - on support various companies to see which one is good one.

Indies somehow benefited from Kickstarter era too - probably, and only indirectly by enriching enviroment.

In the end it was all in favore of Big Corps lol.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

40 pages already? Sigh.

 

[Luckmann]

I love you too, Infinitron.

 

[Perkel]

Netflix today is a net-negative proposition as well, and they are nowhere near as influential as Microsoft.

It is better alternative than standard AAA rat race. In normal AAA rat race nothing can exist outside of latest common fad. Netflix is producing right now shitload of niche stuff.

I would be worried if this was just some strategy but what i said is as basic as math.
No diversity of content = no subscribers.
Netflix can't have only one type of movies because most of people out there watch a lot of different stuff.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller I realize that as an indie RPG developer you have a need to believe that the traditional RPG market isn't "oversaturated"...

I have no such need. The market is over-saturated with shit. At the moment the only available/upcoming game I really want to play is the Battle Brothers' expansion and I have to wait 18 days to get it. When it comes to Quality RPGs the list is very small: Underrail expansion and possibly Kingmaker (the way people are raving about it here). So what oversaturation?

If Colony Ship fails it will be because we fucked up not because we had to compete with other games.

... but can't you consider the possibility that at the level of sales Obsidian is expecting maybe it is?

It's much easier to consider the possibility that PoE 2 failed because the design was weak. Similarly, new Torment failed not because of the competition but because the design and writing were not engaging at all. I mean, at some point developers have to ask themselves: why would anyone want to play it? If the answer is because we're awesome, odds are the game will sell a lot less than what they're expecting.

 

[Infinitron]

I have no such need. The market is over-saturated with shit. At the moment the only available/upcoming game I really want to play is the Battle Brothers' expansion and I have to wait 18 days to get it. When it comes to Quality RPGs the list is very small: Underrail expansion and possibly Kingmaker (the way people are raving about it here). So what oversaturation?

There are way more RPGs out there than that, and they all think they're quality.

It's much easier to consider the possibility that PoE 2 failed because the design was weak.

It failed by selling about as much as Pathfinder Kingmaker currently appears to be selling. Again we're talking about developers who want to break out of the 100k-200k ghetto.

Interestingly, on Kickstarter, RPGs also seem to have converged towards a similar plateau. Right now it looks like every decent-looking RPG on Kickstarter has a decent shot at reaching around $100,000. That's great news if that's enough for you! But if you need a lot more than that then the platform is increasingly no longer viable for you, simple as that.

 

[Luckmann]

Similarly, new Torment failed not because of the competition but because the design and writing were not engaging at all.

No, it was misogyny and gamergate, and rampant transphobia! Sexism! Racism!

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

That feeling you get when you realize the only hope for a good Battletech game is for Microsoft to realize the IP has value and license it to someone other than HBS/Paradox.

Possible silver lining for the inXile/Obsidian acquisition, if Microsoft has enough sense to create its own Battletech tactics game or Mechwarrior RPG (with tactical Battletech combat). If.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

That feeling you get when you realize the only hope for a good Battletech game is for Microsoft to realize the IP has value and license it to someone other than HBS/Paradox.

Possible silver lining for the inXile/Obsidian acquisition, if Microsoft has enough sense to create its own Battletech tactics game or Mechwarrior RPG (with tactical Battletech combat). If.

I don't think I want to entrust either inXile or Obsidian with the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe. Then again, it would be hard to do worse than PGI, and probably not too difficult to do better than HBS.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I have no such need. The market is over-saturated with shit. At the moment the only available/upcoming game I really want to play is the Battle Brothers' expansion and I have to wait 18 days to get it. When it comes to Quality RPGs the list is very small: Underrail expansion and possibly Kingmaker (the way people are raving about it here). So what oversaturation?

There are way more RPGs out there than that, and they all think they're quality.

What they think is irrelevant.

Again we're talking about developers who want to break out of the 100k-200k ghetto.

Give me a reason why someone should play Deadfire? What did developers want people to say about the game? "Oh man, it's just like PoE but with a ship!"?

 

[Latelistener]

It's much easier to consider the possibility that PoE 2 failed because the design was weak.

And maybe because it costs $50. That's a price of an AAA game on release. I can imagine people buying DOS2 for $45, but that's a fully 3D game made on their own proprietary engine and distributed with modding tools. It's also much bigger than Deadfire.

 

[2house2fly]

$50 was an insane price point. I don't know if the owners were just desparate to recoup costs asap and assumed the game would sell, or if it was hubris

 

[Infinitron]

Give me a reason why someone should play Deadfire? What did developers want people to say about the game? "Oh man, it's just like PoE but with a ship!"?

This isn't really the point. Your contention, as I understand, is that it's entirely feasible for there to be three or four RPG studios in the world that release isometric RPGs that consistently sell 500k-1M copies, every year, year after year. Or maybe even more. That only Larian has achieved such sales goals is because all these other guys are fucking it up. It's entirely their fault.

You can consider that implausible even if you think Obsidian and inXile's games haven't been as high quality as they should be. Indeed, it's precisely because they were a bit worse than Larian's games that they were the ones that fell behind. The question is whether they fell behind to a proportionate degree. D:OS 2 may be twice as good as Pillars 2, but Pillars 2 didn't sell half as much as D:OS 2. It sold a lot less. The reason is saturation which means the winner takes all.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If "sequels always sell less" because they are "more of the same", and D:OS2 was literally more of the same (and it was, co-op included), either the premise is flawed or the nature of the co-op has something that modifies the effect of the premise.

Co-op is not more of the same by definition as playing with a friend is a unique experience. They bumped co-op from 2 to 4 in the sequels which also modified how much fun you can have there by inviting more friends. It was even promoted as a fun co-op game:

https://www.polygon.com/features/20...-kickstarter-reveal-feature-gameplay-hands-on

Divinity: Original Sin 2 is a co-op RPG built for trolling your friends
Divinity: Original Sin Is One of the Best Co-op Games for Couples