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In Progress Odin demands blood! Let's revive the Viking Age in Crusader Kings 2!

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Agreed. The one exception is for very large states, and then it's just about making the command hierarchy scale.
Even with very large empires, making a multiduke is a real mess, especially when they aren't contained anywhere near each other.

Conquering territory does tend to result in awkwardness in the political structure of your realm, especially as the game goes on
Yes, it's pretty expensive to purge the entire mess. You're looking at wholesale purges of entire fambly lines of foreign nobles to clean that shit up. The AI's tendency to fragment realms everywhere actually resulted in the disintegration of Byz in my game, where between the pressures of me biting chunks of it off in repeated holy wars in which I would slaughter the Imperial Army, then whacking the Emperor every so often to force-terminate the truce, the horribly fragmented mess actually started successfully revolting and breaking off. And getting eaten. That made for a pretty messy-looking map.
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
Thanks for the kind / kinda gay words, bros. :love:

(I assumed at the time that it was one of the many pricks in our family who wanted to climb over Thord's corpse to the throne, but I checked the game on my 1.05 install (which reveals cause of death), and it says he died of natural causes at about 50. Which is pretty young, but remember that he was an amputee.

Actually, I booted 1.05 up again, and it says everyone from my pre-1.05 save died of natural causes, even some people who I know were murdered, because I personally murdered them. So it's anyone's guess what happened to Thord.


MOAR! when are we getting the next update?

This week is looking really bad. In the meantime, have a map of the northern world, at the end of Mjolnir's reign!

1161.jpg


It's not too different from the last map update, but here's what changed over the past 34 years:

We rule western Finland and all of Sweden outside of Smaland. Our current military strength is around 10K.

Queen Sigrid of Norway's still in civil war, and Norway is essentially no longer a threat to us. (~4K soldiers.) Denmark's been holding its ground and is still nontrivial, but as we saw, not scary without mercs. King Gregers is only a little tougher than Sigrid. (~6K)

We now share a border with Bjarmia, which has managed to thrive despite bordering Rus'. Indeed, it has managed to absorb the last of the independent Karelians. (Sorry Vaarna!) The high chief has 6-7K bros.

Rus' has been ruining everyone else's shit, though. The tsar took Novogrod back from Poland, swallowed Galich, and formed a union with Hungary. The Grand Duchess of Perm is rebelling in this shot, so once that's done, the Russians will own their land, too. That will give the tsar around 45K troops. He has an alliance with the Eastern Emperor, too. Obscene.

The Holy Roman Empire is still the Big Bad, with the Kaiser's 50K+ levies giving him a slight lead over the tsar. I would love to engineer a 12th century Operation Barbarossa, led by the actual 12th century Barbarossa, and thereby cripple both of the Christian superpowers. However, we don't really have a mechanism for inciting international war, so Maer will need to come up with some other way to stay alive . . .
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,233
Location
Ingrija
However, we don't really have a mechanism for inciting international war, so Maer will need to come up with some other way to stay alive . . .

Stay nice until early 1200s when mongols come and rape russistan for you? :D

Never really happened to me though. Ilkhanate arrived, instantly absorbed cumans and seljuks, then defeated their twin rebellion, then sat there doing nothing for 2 decades. Even murdering a few khagans to sparkle some internal squabbles didn't help, the cumans and the seljuks seem now to be perfectly happy to be pwned. Then the Golden Horde arrives... and starts fighting Ilkhanate from day one. Unsuccessfully too, they got beaten and remain landless. I had to stab the khagans of both hordes to make them resume fighting. It's good to have 3 26-27 intrigue nobles who absolutely adore you, you can swap them as spymasters whenever you need somebody killed anywhere.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
I'm still waiting for the Mongols to show their asses up so I can begin my machinations there in my Ethiopian game. Maybe I'll try to take over the Seljuks while I wait, but waging a land war is such a pain in the ass. I've successfully collected both Caliphates and will collect what remains of Byz in the next 10 years or so, once I manage to kamikaze my current ruler so I can inherit the claim. I'm going to probably have to collect the Seljuks eventually so I can have the Ghilmans. I notice when you collect a title without usurping it, you get to keep the mercenaries that are attached to the title, which is very handy, now that I get to have the Mamluks and soon the Varangians. I wonder what happens if I own the Ecumenical Patriarchy while being a "heretic".

Actually, I booted 1.05 up again, and it says everyone from my pre-1.05 save died of natural causes, even some people who I know were murdered, because I personally murdered them. So it's anyone's guess what happened to Thord.
I'd guess that cause of death isn't recorded in older saves, so the lack of any data on their death means it is assumed natural. That, or you're just that good at murdering. So, not a hell of a lot happened, eh? Yeah, I find when that happens I become bored to tears until an opportunity to inflict some violence shows up. I'm always like "Do I have a war? Am I preparing for a war? What do I attack next?", while waiting for the plots I am cooking to mature so I can start...another war. In the grim future of Hello Kitty, there is only war.

I wonder if it's possible to play a game as the Mongols.
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
I'm still waiting for the Mongols to show their asses up so I can begin my machinations there in my Ethiopian game. Maybe I'll try to take over the Seljuks while I wait, but waging a land war is such a pain in the ass. I've successfully collected both Caliphates and will collect what remains of Byz in the next 10 years or so, once I manage to kamikaze my current ruler so I can inherit the claim. I'm going to probably have to collect the Seljuks eventually so I can have the Ghilmans. I notice when you collect a title without usurping it, you get to keep the mercenaries that are attached to the title, which is very handy, now that I get to have the Mamluks and soon the Varangians. I wonder what happens if I own the Ecumenical Patriarchy while being a "heretic".

Yeah, fighting the Seljuks / Persians on their home turf is the worst, especially late game. Moving anywhere takes months, castles are 5K+ strong, county supply limits are 4-6K. Plus, the locals tend to be buff. "Never get involved in a land war in Asia" remains good advice in most cases.

Re: mercs, if you usurp away their liege's ability to command them (e.g. by demoting the Eastern Emperor to a mere doux), they become independent, which means they return to the general merc hiring pool. Obviously that's not as good as having them as vassals, but it's an option if inheriting is unfeasible.

Vassalizing a head of religion doesn't do much. The game won't let you revoke his title, annoyingly enough.

In the grim future of Hello Kitty, there is only war.

We are marine-based disciples of dark gods whose most hated enemy is a False Emperor . . .
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Re: mercs, if you usurp away their liege's ability to command them (e.g. by demoting the Eastern Emperor to a mere doux), they become independent, which means they return to the general merc hiring pool. Obviously that's not as good as having them as vassals, but it's an option if inheriting is unfeasible.
Well, obviously, in this case, it's feasible, since the pieces are already in place and I'm just essentially running the clock down waiting for it.

Vassalizing a head of religion doesn't do much. The game won't let you revoke his title, annoyingly enough.
Well, as both Caliphs, I'm already apparently the head of two religions that I'm not a member of, although this doesn't appear to have given me any powers and there are no wandering preachers around to turn me into a Shiite. I wonder how hard it is to execute a religion turn on a large empire. Hypothetically, if a wandering preacher did turn me into a Shiite, how much would explode?
 

XenomorphII

Prophet
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
1,198
Well, as both Caliphs, I'm already apparently the head of two religions that I'm not a member of, although this doesn't appear to have given me any powers and there are no wandering preachers around to turn me into a Shiite. I wonder how hard it is to execute a religion turn on a large empire. Hypothetically, if a wandering preacher did turn me into a Shiite, how much would explode?

It would probably be pretty bad. I played a Scotland game awhile back where I became a heretic. When I did this I only had Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and a few of the provinces in Northern England (just enough to link me up to Wales). The English never did try anything (they found themselves in perpetual civil wars and facing the occasional attack from France due to the failure of the initial invasion), but my vassals hated my guts and rebelled and rebelled and rebelled. What I eventually started doing was banishing the duke's as they rebelled, then revoking their vassals titles, creating holy men, and then giving all the titles to them. It still took me a few generations before everything calmed down and I was able to turn my attention towards England.
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
The event code for wandering preachers is 39010 (found in events/religious_events.txt); it looks like being a caliph (ruler of a theocracy) actually protects against it ever happening to you.

That said, if you did the impossible and converted, the main factors would be how rich and pluralistic the Holy Norfleet Empire was at the time, and how popular the Emperor was. If you're rich enough, you can smooth over your infidelity with bribes; if you're a multikult, the delta to relations by any given conversion is lessened. And of course if you have all seven virtues + brave + just, you can murder a guy's parents in front of him and not really upset him too much.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
What I eventually started doing was banishing the duke's as they rebelled, then revoking their vassals titles, creating holy men, and then giving all the titles to them. It still took me a few generations before everything calmed down and I was able to turn my attention towards England.
Yeah, but banishing REALLY pisses people off. That's probably why. If they revolt, you basically can just throw them in prison, revoke ONE lousy title, and that's basically it: They stay there to rot forever. Or you could let them go and abuse them some more until they revolt again. Still, it's not quite as bad as the CK1 revolt spiral, where the first revolt would essentially doom your entire kingdom, as you'd defeat that rebel, incurring badboy for doing it, which would trigger yet another one, triggering another, and another, and another. The way to shed that was really bizarre: Assassinate your own courtiers.

The event code for wandering preachers is 39010 (found in events/religious_events.txt); it looks like being a caliph (ruler of a theocracy) actually protects against it ever happening to you.
Ah, well. Guess I'll ever end up becoming a Shiite that way, then. Can such a thing happen to a non-ruler, or a vassal ruler, such as my successor?

That said, if you did the impossible and converted, the main factors would be how rich and pluralistic the Holy Norfleet Empire was at the time, and how popular the Emperor was.
Rich? Fairly. Pluralistic....not so much. It's a pretty monolithic entity. I haven't acquired much in the way of foreign courtiers that happen to have different religions, and it's too easy to talk them into converting with my huge diplomacy score. Meanwhile, no one else wants to join because of my "False Religion", so I don't acquire many different religions at all. Since Ethiopian Culture doesn't have any related cultures, the entire thing is pretty much totally monolithic Ethiopian Monophysite.

If you're rich enough, you can smooth over your infidelity with bribes; if you're a multikult, the delta to relations by any given conversion is lessened.
I'm fairly rich, and could probably afford to bribe each of the 80+ dukes with the $20 a piece, but honestly, I hesitate to give them more money: Instead of using the money to do something constructive, they tend to blow it on pointlessly trying to murder each other, and most of my internal affairs is occupied with trying to stop that. Every $$50 I give someone translates into one more murder attempt on someone I'd rather not have murdered. It's massively annoying: WHY DO THEY DO THAT? It's not even ME they're
l Maniac" trait or something? I have never seen them actually ACCOMPLISH anything that would match any kind of purposeful objective, they just like trying to murder random people. What the hell, man?

And of course if you have all seven virtues + brave + just, you can murder a guy's parents in front of him and not really upset him too much.
I don't think I quite have THAT many, but I HAVE murdered an awful lot of peoples' parents. Their parents had it coming, though, for being real assholes like that.

Oh, and here's an interesting and new discovery: It seems the succession laws of Titular (and probably non-landless) titles (Caliphates, in my case) that are not your primary title are ignored. This means if you own multiple top-ranking titles of this sort (whatever your best is, Emperor/King/Duke/etc), you can pretty much flip between succession laws at whim without cost or upsetting anyone once you've assigned each one a different setup. Whichever hat you happen to be wearing at the time will decide your inheritance style. As some particular inheritance types are particularly pleasing to vassals or grant you other benefits (Elective, Gavelkind, Turkish/Open), while others are particularly useful to you at various times but not quite so pleasing or prone not to behaving as you wish, you can flip between them by switching your hat. Another use is Legal Hats: Have one title with crown laws set to one particular setup that is helpful to you in a flash, such as High Levies, while another contains a more relaxed, pleasing set of laws for smoothing over successions and peacetime. Then just flip your hat when you want to raise some troops.

The only actual way to ruin it would be if some powergaming mofo like me or Norfleet were to make our dude emperor in the 12th century, thereby eliminating all challenge for the rest of the game
Haha, so I was bored and rereading this thread, and noticed you called me that. You have no idea. I take powergaming things to the level where some would say it defeats the point of the game, except in my book, administering defeat *IS* the point of the game. Let's just say I have a long and glorious reign of getting banned from MMOs for this...and often this isn't even enough to stop my ghost from continuing to rule from the shadows. I have left permanent scars on games the Codex knows. Ever wonder why certain things in Dominions 3 suck balls and aren't worth the whatevers you pay for them at ALL? It's because I left SCARS on that sucker.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Yeah, I second that. From what you've mentioned of Queen Maer, she sounds totally awesome and I can't wait to see how she's managed to deal with Rus and HRE.
 

newcomer

Learned
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
919
Hi everyone :D
To think I finally registered just to post on this awesome AAR...

Kayerts :
Btw, I can't help but notice that your Sweden has a "Moose" flag! This alone shows that your CK2 is a mutant 3rd-hand :D
No worries, I also play on a mutant version & I know how to fix it:

WARNING: BACK UP YOUR CK2 FIRST!

Basically the developer of our version wrongly coded the mongol khan titles as kingdoms rather than empires.
This caused multiple issues such as messed-up flags, and maybe some mongol-related bugs.

To fix the flags:
1. Go to your Crusader Kings 2 folder (usually on C:/Program Files/ Paradox Interactive) and search for a folder called gfx.
2. Go inside that folder and then go to flags folder
3. Search for files called "k_ilkhanate" and rename it to "e_ilkhanate". Repeat for Golden Horde & Timurids
4. Go to your Paradox Interactive folder which contains your save file folder (usually on C:/User/"Your username"/Documents)
5. Delete the gfx folder in that folder
6. Run the game & your flags should be fixed

For the sake of complete fix:
1. Go to landed_titles.txt on common folder & rename the mongol titles to empires (just follow the same fix as above)
2. Go to history folder, then go to titles, and rename the files again (I think timurids do not have any file here, so no worries if you can't find it)

To check whether it works:
1. Try to console event 60001 (Il-Khanate) & 60002 (Golden Horde)
2. For Timurids, you will instant game-over if you fire event 60003. Change the MTTH to 1 month instead & remove the year restriction.

Hope that helps & I hope for more updates :D
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
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Jun 18, 2010
Messages
20,317
Location
DiNMRK
odin.jpg


The all-father is displeased with the lack of updates. Ragnarok waits for no man.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
Patron
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
20,317
Location
DiNMRK
Kayerts
We will not let this thread die a weaklings death and suffer eternal boredom in Helheim. Your silence will not make us forget this LPs existence.

Vikings never forget.


And they never forgive!


berserk_viking_by_overdrivezero-d34r576.jpg
 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
Well said, bro. :bro:

I have been occupied with trying to forge a small empire in real life. It seems harder than how it works in CK2, but then, I haven't been making blood offerings here. Anyway, I should have some down time today. Soon you shall hear the song of the Rise of the Valkyrie. As a teaser, here is she who chooses the slain and she who chooses their slayers:

sheIsThePaganLord.jpg
 

newcomer

Learned
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
919
:yeah:

Just when I almost lost hope for updates!

On the side note, you may want to apply the fix quickly; when I played on 1.04c without the fix, the mongols wouldn't come for some reasons (even after I console the event). The fix is independent from your save, so you can still continue.
 

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