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Outward - open world RPG where you are an ordinary adventurer and survival is harsh

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by LESS T_T, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    Eh, this game is so annoying at times.

    Was sliding down a hill, which generally worked for me before, but I guess this one was to steep or something, so I fell to my death. Was saved by some guy, woke up nearby with barely any health. Went to sleep, set guard, got ambushed anyway. 2 bandits, whom I could've taken, but when I rolled to avoid being backstabbed by one, the place where I was saved was on another fucking hill, so I fell to my death again.

    This time woke up in Vendavel fotress. Was about to pay the guard to get out, when saw the option to jump down off some ramp. Not realizing this game REALLY doesn't reward exploration, I did it, fell out of the fortress without any of my shit. No weapons, no armor, nothing.

    The great thing about gems like Gothic was that they nailed the sweetspot between challenging gameplay and fun. Outward tries so hard to be challenging, it's like they forgot the fun part.

    Also, unlike say Gothic or other PB games, the world is barren af. There is very rarely anything cool to discover, most stuff is just a background prop.
     
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  2. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    I made the trip to Sorobor (cost 400 silvers round trip, ouch) and got the cheap stamina buff + mana unlock for all three of our characters. I had already got us all the cheap health buff from the trainer in Chierzo, so that means we're each at 120 health / 120 stamina / 20 mana.

    Progress has hit a bit of a lull now as I try to figure out our builds. The kids will enjoy throwing a fireball or two for the novelty of it, but ultimately I expect they'll be content to just stick with melee. So I'll just equip them with the best weapons and armors I can find, and top them up with the passives that buff health and stamina, as resources permit.

    That means for efficiency's sake I should build my character for magic use. That's a bit more complicated, seeing as (a) upper tier skills are hella expensive to train, and I need a lot of silver to outfit 3 characters and (b) you only have 8 hot bar slots, which places a fairly stringent limit on how many skills you have readily available in combat. After doing some research, here's what I currently think about the available options.

    Show Spoiler

    Rune Sage (https://outward.fandom.com/wiki/Rune_Sage)
    Pro: Just 4 hot bar slots gives access to a ton of useful spells. Passive ability gives +40 mana. Basic rune spells are cheap to learn. Memorizing spell combinations is kind of a fun mechanic.
    Con: Need to carry a Lexicon in your off-hand to use Rune magic (there is a passive skill that eliminates this requirement, but it's expensive). Rune spells also appear to have fairly high mana costs (16 mana for basic spells, 32 mana for advanced) and they lack synergies with other skill trees.

    Hex Mage (https://outward.fandom.com/wiki/Hex_Mage)
    Pro: Spells do a lot of debuffs and damage. Passive ability restores attributes lost to attrition when you kill stuff. Some powerful skill synergies.
    Con: Seems like it would need a lot of min-maxing to be effective. Dark stones, sigils, corruption, fatigue... it's a lot to manage, and I don't think I want to be bothered with it.

    Philosopher (https://outward.fandom.com/wiki/Philosopher)
    Pro: Passive grants constant effect mana regen (1 mana per 3 seconds). Chakrams look like fun.
    Con: Sigil spells are situational and finicky. Chakrams require the Discipline buff to use. Upper tier skills look kind of meh.

    Cabal Hermit (https://outward.fandom.com/wiki/Cabal_Hermit)
    Pro: Lots of useful abilities and synergies. Passive enhances boons which is a nice effect. Sigil of Wind doesn't require a consumable to use.
    Con: Have to pick between Sigil of Wind and Infuse Wind, which are both great abilities. Conjure has a long cast time which may limit its usefulness.

    Kazite Spellblade (https://outward.fandom.com/wiki/Kazite_Spellblade)
    Pro: Passive grants +15 to health, stamina, and magic. If you convert the bonus health and stamina to magic, it adds up to a whopping +75 mana! The ability to infuse melee weapons with elemental damage and attack from range is also nice.
    Con: Can only specialize in either fire or frost (not both). Only one active ability which is kind of meh.

    Warrior Monk (https://outward.fandom.com/wiki/Warrior_Monk)
    Pro: Lots of synergy with Philosopher since they both rely on the Discipline boon. Passive gives +40 stamina which is useful for all characters. Gives added melee and tanking capabilities to a battlemage-style build.
    Con: Not actually a magic-using class. Lots of active abilities to quickly clog up the hot bar.
    I like Philosopher / Rune / Cabal Hermit for a pure caster and Philosopher / Monk / Spellblade for a battlemage. Or perhaps even Philosopher / Rune / Spellblade for a heavy hitter with very deep mana reserves.

    Open to suggestions if anyone has any.
     
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  3. Efe Erudite

    Efe
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    give one of them a pistol and you can delay buying him armor for a time
    I remember using extra skills from menu before boss fights
    not everything has to go in hotbar
     
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  4. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    Fuck it, I am done with this piece of shit game...

    It's like they distilled everything that's not fun with RPGs into a single package. Run 30 minutes through one zone, get killed cause enemies always come in 2-3s, randomly resurrect half a zone away, run back for 15 minutes, realize your fucking tent didn't resurrect with you, run back for 30 minutes, get the tent, get attacked by some monster you have no chance against, try to run away, run out of stamina cause half of it was burnt away by previous death, die from enemy poison anyway, resurrect half a zone away, repeat...

    If we are being honest here, 90%+ of the gameplay in this shitfest is either running somewhere or managing your inventory. It might be 2021, but there's gotta be better stuff to play...
     
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  5. Bloodeyes Arcane

    Bloodeyes
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    It's just got a steep learning curve. Once you get the hang of what you need to craft for what situation it's easy to complete the game without dying once. I've done this quite a few times. You just need to master the crafting and inventory management. I love Outward but my initial reaction to the game was similar to yours. I even made a thread bitching about how hard it is on the Codex.

    Once you learn the crafting and figure out what combat style works for you (rune magic is OP) the game is actually really easy. I stopped playing after a while because it had no more challenge for me.

    It's not really an RPG though. The character system isn't deep enough to justify the name. It's more of an action/survival hybrid with RPG elements.

    A good way to get started is to use a bow. I always start with a bow. Also craft a few lanterns to throw if you get into deep shit. You need to have some level of stamina regen going when you are in combat. So eat something beforehand, even if it's just berries (or is it water you need for that? How could I forget?). Once you become a rune mage you've broken the difficulty. A good second class is the one that gives you mana regen, just for the mana regen. Philosopher? I don't remember. Haven't played in quite a while. Once you've got those classes you've broken the difficulty.

    Most combinations of classes will work well together though and be quite OP once you unlock all the skills.

    Chakrams are terrible. Melee combat is terrible too, IMO. Unless they've patched that. Go for ranged damage, rune traps, guns, lanterns, traps. Use your dodge a lot and forget about the parry. Learn to craft a coralhorn bow once you get to the forest area.

    Don't rush progression. Get as rich as you can in the starting area before you leave. Once you've either cleared it or winter comes you should leave (or buy warm clothing, but then you can't wear mages' robes).

    The fire sigil + the spark spell is a good way to deal ranged damage without needing to spend a breakthrough point.

    How much magic you take is on you. Some say take only 1 rank because gear will give you 100% spell cost reduction later in the game. I say take a moderate amount (I think I took 4 ranks) if you're trying to ironman or just having trouble with the difficulty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  6. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    This isn't a game where you are an action hero capable of steamrolling hordes of trash mobs. The enemy AI is very basic, so swarming is one of the ways it poses a challenge.

    The game forces you to strategize, but it also gives you plenty of tools to do so. Pre-buffing, traps, ranged combat, kiting, etc. Learn to track the enemy's movements (they only have 2 or 3 animation sequences each) and spot openings. If nothing else, you can go find a place to camp and wait until nightfall so you can sneak by.

    Yes, this can happen. Most of the time these situations are avoidable and/or escapable, but sometimes not (shout out to dinosaurs in the marsh).

    However, strong enemies are the foundation of good RPG character progression. Take your beatings now, then come back later when you are stronger and get your revenge.

    I neither love nor hate this feature, but it's how the game is, so you have to plan accordingly. And honestly, the consequences of death are fairly minimal... even if you get a bad defeat roll, all you have to do is grab your backpack and escape. I've yet to encounter a situation where doing so required more than a modicum of effort.

    You already know that death will transport you away, so you shouldn't just be dropping camp in the wilderness and then running off to go do stuff. Deploy the tent when you need to sleep, otherwise keep it in your pack. The game will always teleport your pack with you if you die, so there's no risk of losing items as long as they are properly stored.

    This is one of the only significant criticisms of the game that I have. I call it "commuting" and it essentially means the same thing in games as it does in real life.

    The developers should've been more thoughtful about the way they designed the map, or put in some proper fast travel options, probably both. Either way, I agree that there's too much running, and it gets annoying when you just want to get to the next town to access a trainer or vendor or whatever, and that inevitably ends up being a 20-minute process.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  7. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    I don't want to do a run with ranged weapons, and I definitely don't like using traps. Melee combat does indeed suck utter shit. If I ever get back to this, I will play a mage.
     
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  8. Ontopoly Hater of Larian

    Ontopoly
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    One thing me and by brother did to cut down on the occasional long walks to a place we've been to before was one of us would disconnect and the other would walk to the place while the first person went and got snacks or drinks or used the washroom, then we could reconnect the second player and they spawn next to the first. Nice for the really long walks and good company does make it better.
     
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  9. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    If I was playing solo I would have alts that just stayed in each town so my main could drop in and access vendors, trainers, etc. Would take a few minutes to set up but you'd probably save hours in mindless commuting over the length of a game.

    Hope to god they implement a decent fast travel system in Outward II. Preferably one that exists as part of the world a la Morrowind, but I'd take the popamole Skyrim approach over all this damn running.
     
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  10. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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  11. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    Fast travel mod isn't working for me.

    :negative:

    Also looks like it charges 200 silver per trip which is kind of steep.
     
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  12. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    I think I finally found a build I kinda like.

    First, I re-rolled a sword and shield build. It's fairly effective, but it literally bores me to death. You just play peak-a-boo from behind the shield, and get one or more quick strikes with a 1-handed sword when you can, then hide behind the shield again. 1-handed sword strikes very fast, and shield animations jell well with it, so you can be exposed for very little time. I can defeat things with this, but it's just dull as hell. Takes forever too, because 1-handed sword does very little damage compared to other weapons.

    So then I rolled a greatsword build. It's definitely riskier, and I die more, but between getting better with Pommel Counter (and hopefully later with Counter Strike/Brace), it has some timed skill moves, and when those are on cooldown, you can block with it, and then do normal-normal-special sequence, and stagger many enemies. The wide sweep can also hit multiple opponents. This build is not as effective, much easier to get caught and killed, but it's definitely more fun then sword and board. Will see how it goes.
     
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  13. Decado Prestigious Gentleman Old time handsome face wrecker Patron

    Decado
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    Codex 2014
    Sword and board is more fun when you get weapons like Brand.

    You can also use fast travel if you turn on Debug Mode, which is available pretty easily. I think it involves making a text file in some folder or another. But it is cheating (if anyone cares).
     
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  14. Ontopoly Hater of Larian

    Ontopoly
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    My favorite build was dagger. Get a main hand weapon that applies confusion and the dagger skills do a ton of stagger and damage. Also attacks quick so you can get out of the way quickly
     
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  15. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    Here's my current build.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Breakthroughs are Rune Sage / Warrior Monk / Wild Hunter, which I took so the character could have enhanced health and stamina and a large mana reserve. Works pretty well in melee (2H sword + Discipline + Rage + Runic Protection) or as a caster (Blessed + Rune Lightning) though obviously he is not optimized for either.
    If I'm playing by myself I tend to stick with melee, but when playing co-op with the kids I can just stand back and spam lightning while they distract the enemies. Not the most efficient build, but it's fun and is getting the job done so far. :M
     
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  16. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    The more I play the game, the more I realize how critical the Impact mechanic is to melee. If you can stagger the opponent, you can win. I don't know if there's any getting around that. Maybe if you build your character for speed and you're really good at mix-maxing your footwork and positioning.

    I probably weakened my build somewhat by taking as much mana as I did, but Rune magic burns through a lot, even if you just stick to buffs and heals. There is mana cost reduction gear to help with that, but then you're just wearing frilly wizard clothes that leave you exposed in melee. It's kind of a catch-22... you can have more health and take more damage, or you can have more mana but your spells cost more. Such is life when you're playing a hybrid, I suppose.

    Hell, with gear and abilities I am at like 70% DR and 7 protection, and I still don't feel all that tanky. The devs definitely weren't shy about letting enemies hit hard. But I figured out that to kill the dinosaurs in the marsh, you've got to stagger them.
     
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  17. Ontopoly Hater of Larian

    Ontopoly
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    Which Path did you choose? Planning on doing the dlc?
     
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  18. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    Ontopoly I haven't allied with a faction yet, since I read that once you do it starts triggering timed quests and stuff. But unless something happens to change my mind, I am going to go with the Holy Mission.

    I am pretty happy with this character so I'll probably stick it out until I've seen all the content.
     
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  19. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    Man, fuck this game...

    Every time I try to play it again, it shows yet another ugly side. Right now, was doing a quest for the Holy Mission, when without much warning, 3 glowing skeletons spawn behind me. Well, there was a warning "stand back, we don't know what's gonna happen", for about 2 seconds, then bam. If you know how this game works, you know you can't really buff yourself in the middle of combat, so I am buffless, boonless, with a backpack on my back, weapon not drawn, etc. Start fighting them, fighting 1 on 3 is pretty much impossible with this shit combat system, since you rotate toward the one currently being targetted, while the other two take your back. Maybe if you have a 2 handed mace or something, and just aoe stagger them, but certainly not possible with my current sword and shield build. I manage to almost kill one, and wound the other 2, but then of course I die. So I rez right there, and in the ultimate spit in the face, instead of letting me do this sequence again, more prepared, the game says the skeletons were defeated, and continues to the next phase. Wtf? Is this piece of shit playing itself now?

    I really get the appeal of this type of game, the base premise is excellent, no handholding, tough world, grow stronger, etc, but the implementation and design are of utter shit quality. I don't know if the developers are merely incompetent or downright sadistic, but there is something deeply wrong here. There is barely any fun to be had, all you do is run around for hours, manage inventory, engage in retarded combat that makes you want to pull your hair out, and have to deal with cascades of bullshit happening, like resurrecting the entire map away, having all your food rot, quests timing out or completing themselves, etc, etc, etc.

    Old school games weren't about punishing the player, they were just difficult because they didn't hold your hand. Outward constantly uses its hand to fist you up the ass. So a hearty fuck you to the developers!
     
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  20. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    Galaxy downloaded like a 10GB update for the game today, and now when I go to load, it gives me a list of saves to pick from? I can't find any patch notes anywhere though.
     
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  21. Whisper Arcane Vatnik

    Whisper
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    First explore full world, than do factions.

    Do not do any quests, even joining faction one. You start hidden timers. There are plenty of timers. And most of them matter. Like destroying starting town (with your chests with loot) in first area.
     
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  22. Zanzoken Arcane

    Zanzoken
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    Ghosts are highly resistant to Physical damage, but vulnerable to Ethereal. You have to either treat your weapon with a spiritual varnish, or destroy them with magic.

    Honestly the combat may not be Dark Souls or whatever, but I don't think it's that bad. My 2H build is essentially complete now and the fights have gotten much easier, although it's still by no means a faceroll. If you let yourself get swarmed, or try to stand in front of powerful enemies and trade haymakers, then you will get beaten up and smacked around.

    Maybe part of the trouble you're having is you're playing a sword & board build. I could see that being underpowered, or least more difficult to play, compared to 2H weapons. If you can't reliably stagger the opponent then I suppose you have to be really slick with your footwork and dodge-rolling to stay out of harm's way.
     
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  23. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    You guys are not listening to me. I've defeated glowing skeletons before by the ton, and I am well aware of how combat works. Throwing 3 skeletons at you without warning and chance to prepare, and also chance to replay that, and have the mission complete successfully anyway, that's just sadism.

    I am also going to elaborate some more on why the combat in Outward is utter budget tier trash:

    - The animations are not synched appropriately for an action combat system. With all weapons, there is a large window between when you finish your attack and when you can bring the weapon up to block, meaning you cannot easily transition between attack and defense, and are essentially forced to trade blows, unless you go for an Impact build (which seems the only melee build that actually works in any way). This is also true for skill animations, where there is often a delay before and after the skill animation, when you can't use regular attacks/defenses.
    - The weapon skills don't match the appropriate playstyle at all. For example, Juggernaut skill for 2-handed maces does 3 times damage and huge impact, and causes confusion (less impact resistance). So in effect it replaces the standard 2-handed mace attacks, as opposed to complimenting them. For 1-handed swords, the playstyle is quick attacks and shield defense, but the skill is Puncture, which is a really slow attack that stops your whole flow.
    - The targeting system is so awkward and bad (have to move mouse to switch between targets, good luck with that), that it makes it almost impossible to target cycle, and deal with multiple opponents effectively when using pure damage/defense approaches, and again you must resort to Impact builds with aoe weapons.
    - Enemies have no stamina dependence at all, unlike you, attack non-stop, and often have no real fixed pattern that you can adjust to consistently. For instance, most of them have some general pattern, and if you follow it, you can get some strikes in safely, but every once in a while, they will attack outside that pattern, catching you and making you trade blows. So in other words, again, this game is just not intended to be played like a regular aRPG, studying the enemy patterns, becoming gud, it's all about just finding the single OP melee build (Impact) and spamming the enemy with high impact damage.
     
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  24. Alexander DeLarge Cipher

    Alexander DeLarge
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    Seriously? I haven't played this beyond the first couple hours but that's retarded for this kind of game. I'm against handholding most of the time but if you're gonna do something like that, you should really disclose to the player what will happen and tell them to move their shit or there should be a system that automates moving loot between storage locations so you don't lose all your stuff.
     
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  25. Murk Arcane

    Murk
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    Last few pages of this thread is like reading the diary of an addict/junkie cursing the needle as he continues to stick it in his arms.
     
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