(PA) Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

[Damned Registrations]

Commander Keen, clearly gaming's greatest masterpiece. It's not like Doom is a fucking cornerstone of an entire genre, still commonly referenced today. Funny, it seemed to be made some years later, with two thirds of the level design being done by a 38 year old married guy with 2 infant children. He was probably pulling 80 hour work weeks, those things pretty much look after themselves until they're 3 years old or so.

Yeah, and what is more funny is that ken Lavine has 46 years old, he should be a really mature guy to create such amazing game that Bioshock Infinite is... . David Gaider is the more mature writer in the industry, Right? I have an idea... If I was a publisher, I would make a video game with a budget of 100 million dollar and call Richard Garriot and John Romero, David Gaider should write the story... Nothing could go wrong, right?

Lock them in a room for a year with no budget and no swarm of desperate losers to tell them how awesome everything is and they'd make a fucking masterpiece, or at the very least their best work in the last decade. Designers, like authors, need editors and critics. These guys have none (that they give a fuck about) just massively inflated budgets to play with. They have gone the way of george lucas. They're just being paid to write fanfiction.

Nobody has said fuck all about race or gender except you guys. Projecting much? Nevermind the fact that you seem to be looking for 60 year old development veterans either in a point in time where barely anyone over the age of 30 could even use a fucking computer, or now, when the industry has driven them all off into better prospects.

 

[DeepOcean]

Well, who started this discussion of gender, age and maturity was the author of the article. His arguments were: The shitty, homogenous games are caused by developers imaturity. The immaturity was because only young white single males wanted to work in such horrible conditions. Somehow, you can only produce good work after 30 years old of age and being married and having kids. All of this is bullshit to me, the only thing of worth in the article is the denouncing of the wage slave conditions. You could easily pick an intelligent 40 years old married developer that worked on a good game, it is as easy to pick a dumb 40 years old married man that worked on a shitty game recently (Bio Infinite for example). The same thing is valid for a 20 something, there are retarded young people and there are intelligent young people. The real problem that the article don't mention is that the publishers just want crap, there isn't the need for a contrived explanation to explain the why games are shitty the way they are.

 

[Blaine]

The average criminal in the US is a 25-year-old black male, with one to two children that they don't support.

Statistics are fun!

 

[almondblight]

Tangentially, how come it seems like the few big name female developers are all from the adventure game genre?

 

[DeepOcean]

The average criminal in the US is a 25-year-old black male, with one to two children that they don't support.

Statistics are fun!

They could use the experiences of their lifes to make really amazing games.

 

[Blaine]

Tangentially, how come it seems like the few big name female developers are all from the adventure game genre?

Adventure games by and large are linear and don't require game mechanics beyond "click to walk here", "talk", "pick X up", and "use X on Y".

Don't get me wrong: I've loved adventure games since the late 1980s, and making good ones is hard. Nevertheless, I imagine that has something to do with it. The sole exception I can think of on a moment's notice is Lori Cole, and I'm not sure offhand who directed the statistics/skill side of Quest for Glory, which was very straightforward in any event.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

The average criminal in the US is a 25-year-old black male, with one to two children that they don't support.

Statistics are fun!

They could use the experiences of their lifes to make really amazing games.

Rockstar used gangsta rappers as actors didn't they?

You might be more right than you think.

 

[Blaine]

You might be more right than you think.

He said "amazing" games, though, so....

 

[AngryEddy]

Fuck the author of that article. I read the whole goddamned thing, and it wasn't at all about evil white men, it was about workplace conditions. Just another hack "journalist" that has to incite anger and rage with radical politics/buzzwords to bring people to his shitty article.

 

[Krraloth]

OP overall infos remind me of two other jobs that are similar:

1) Waiting/Bartendering with the notable difference of being a job one can do in awesome places and meet many girls fuck partners platonic relationship enablers people (god it is difficult to not enter the privilege zone )

2) Farmhand in Australia. No seriously. 80 hours a week is common, but then again, most of the jobs pay an hourly rate (albeit low) I still could rack up a shitload of money working 14 hours a day.
What are the other perks you say?
Well you probably will be in an international hostel that looks like it should be burned to the ground but the amount of promiscuity, randomness and liquor has undone many a person I met.
Also bedbugs

Which leads me to believe that the gaming industry is sadder than I thought.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I take a Dark Souls sequel made by dedicated hardcore nerds working brutal hours anytime over some shitty Splinter Cell sequel made by smiling Jade Raymond and her loyal multicultural lifestyle entourage.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I don't know why game biz articles and Codexers keep conflating the average developer with the guys doing the creative work.

Average developer = programmer / artist. You are told what to do, especially the former. You have very little involvement in the game design and the creative side of the game. Ken Levine doesn't let his 22-year-old tech. intern tell him whether Infinite's ending sucks. Even his 40-year-old senior systems programmer doesn't get that privilege.

This is not an irrelevant side. There are plenty of people who think making games is the coolest thing ever, but when they get into the industry and they see that all they get to do is software design and code monkeying, they leave. Why stay in the industry when the job is the same with every other programming job, but pays less and demands extra?

Before articles and Codexers go off talking about how games are the products of 31-year-old white childless men, they need to first make sure it's the 31-years-old white childless men who are making the important creative and design decisions.

MCA, Ken Levine, David Gaider, etc. are not your average game developer.

Though notable, all of these and more did their best work when they WERE young childless men. Maybe time issues are a part of that.

 

[chestburster]

Okay, only 31 years old man without children would accept those jobs but so what?

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

Really? I don't remember System Shock 2 , Thief, Torment, Icewind dale, Fallout and other interesting games being made by 40 years old men with 3 kids.

These titles may be "diverse" in vidya game world, but they're just as homogeneous if you compare them to some other art forms (I use the word "art" loosely). Let me explain:

Now if you look at movies, you can have incredibly diverse genres from "The Seven Samurai" on one end, to "Beasts of the Southern Wild" on other end. The difference between the games you listed, is perhaps as wide as the difference between "Iron Man" and "Transformers." These games are all nerd fantasies. They may be good nerd fantasies compared to the recent decline shits, but they're still homogeneous nerd fantasies.

The one time when a game is NOT directed by a 30-year-old White dude, we got Portal (made by a woman), which is vastly different from all the nerd fantasies you listed.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Okay, only 31 years old man without children would accept those jobs but so what?

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

Really? I don't remember System Shock 2 , Thief, Torment, Icewind dale, Fallout and other interesting games being made by 40 years old men with 3 kids.

These titles may be "diverse" in vidya game world, but they're just as homogeneous if you compare them to some other art forms (I use the word "art" loosely). Let me explain:

Now if you look at movies, you can have incredibly diverse genres from "The Seven Samurai" on one end, to "Beasts of the Southern Wild" on other end. The difference between the games you listed, is perhaps as wide as the difference between "Iron Man" and "Transformers." These games are all nerd fantasies. They may be good nerd fantasies compared to the recent decline shits, but they're still homogeneous nerd fantasies.

The one time when a game is NOT directed by a 30-year-old White dude, we got Portal (made by a woman), which is vastly different from all the nerd fantasies you listed.

Nicely done, but picking Portal, of all games, as an example of not-nerd-fantasy totally gave you away.

 

[chestburster]

Okay, only 31 years old man without children would accept those jobs but so what?

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

Really? I don't remember System Shock 2 , Thief, Torment, Icewind dale, Fallout and other interesting games being made by 40 years old men with 3 kids.

These titles may be "diverse" in vidya game world, but they're just as homogeneous if you compare them to some other art forms (I use the word "art" loosely). Let me explain:

Now if you look at movies, you can have incredibly diverse genres from "The Seven Samurai" on one end, to "Beasts of the Southern Wild" on other end. The difference between the games you listed, is perhaps as wide as the difference between "Iron Man" and "Transformers." These games are all nerd fantasies. They may be good nerd fantasies compared to the recent decline shits, but they're still homogeneous nerd fantasies.

The one time when a game is NOT directed by a 30-year-old White dude, we got Portal (made by a woman), which is vastly different from all the nerd fantasies you listed.

Nicely done, but picking Portal, of all games, as an example of not-nerd-fantasy totally gave you away.

Please elaborate. I thought Portal couldn't be further away from nerd fantasy. As a nerd, I've never fantasized opening holes in the walls.

 

[DeepOcean]

Okay, only 31 years old man without children would accept those jobs but so what?

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

Really? I don't remember System Shock 2 , Thief, Torment, Icewind dale, Fallout and other interesting games being made by 40 years old men with 3 kids.

These titles may be "diverse" in vidya game world, but they're just as homogeneous if you compare them to some other art forms (I use the word "art" loosely). Let me explain:

Now if you look at movies, you can have incredibly diverse genres from "The Seven Samurai" on one end, to "Beasts of the Southern Wild" on other end. The difference between the games you listed, is perhaps as wide as the difference between "Iron Man" and "Transformers." These games are all nerd fantasies. They may be good nerd fantasies compared to the recent decline shits, but they're still homogeneous nerd fantasies.

The one time when a game is NOT directed by a 30-year-old White dude, we got Portal (made by a woman), which is vastly different from all the nerd fantasies you listed.

Thief, homogenous, nerd fantasy? You could start by explaining what is a nerd fantasy to you. How Thief can be in the same bag that something like Skyrim, Gears of War or Halo? o_O Last time I checked, there wasn't alot of people making cosplay of Garret.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Okay, only 31 years old man without children would accept those jobs but so what?

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

Really? I don't remember System Shock 2 , Thief, Torment, Icewind dale, Fallout and other interesting games being made by 40 years old men with 3 kids.

These titles may be "diverse" in vidya game world, but they're just as homogeneous if you compare them to some other art forms (I use the word "art" loosely). Let me explain:

Now if you look at movies, you can have incredibly diverse genres from "The Seven Samurai" on one end, to "Beasts of the Southern Wild" on other end. The difference between the games you listed, is perhaps as wide as the difference between "Iron Man" and "Transformers." These games are all nerd fantasies. They may be good nerd fantasies compared to the recent decline shits, but they're still homogeneous nerd fantasies.

The one time when a game is NOT directed by a 30-year-old White dude, we got Portal (made by a woman), which is vastly different from all the nerd fantasies you listed.

Nicely done, but picking Portal, of all games, as an example of not-nerd-fantasy totally gave you away.

Please elaborate. I thought Portal couldn't be further away from nerd fantasy. As a nerd, I've never fantasized opening holes in the walls.

But you have fantasized about being terrorized by alien monsters on a spaceship, as in SS2?

Also, Portal's narrative, presentation and sense of humor are about as nerdy as you can get. If anything, a game like Antichamber would be a way better example, but that was made by a man.

 

[mondblut]

Maturity is fucking overrated.

And all those complaints can be distilled to "you've been a good slave, but now the soshuti needs you to breed it moar childrun, so abandon everything you used to do and settle down". Fuck you kindly, soshuti.

 

[mondblut]

How about making the same game for years? How about making a game driven by marketing instead of quality? How about making a game for the lowest common denominator? How about making a game that the core experience is watching EXPLOSIUNS? I'm not saying that the developers are dumb idiots but I'm sure as hell they don't need to use their intelligence.

On the contrary, making fools part with their gold is among the most intelligence-intensive jobs since the dawn of mankind.

 

[mondblut]

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Uncatchable super thief ghosting through mansions stealing whatever the fuck he wants is totally a nerd fantasy. Those games are all different flavours of it, but in the end they're all just power fantasies, while in Portal you don't really have any power, and you're just desperately trying to escape. Though I'd disagree that Portal is the only exception. There are plenty of games from other genres that don't fit the bill either. Survival horror type games (obviously not the recent ones where you just shoot things like fucking Rambo) being a good example, or Lemmings (if you're trying to play it seriously and not just laugh your ass off by suiciding them.)

But the vast majority of games put the player in a position of supreme power, someone you'd swap situations with in a heartbeat. Very rarely is the player struggling to simply maintain the status quo and finishes the game worse off than when he started. Instead you're always the hero.

Compare that to other media. Something like Terminator 1+2, where the main character is being protected by a guardian, who is gone at the end, with them just being fucked up by the whole ordeal. Not a lot of games that play out like that. Lots of movies though.

Because if the creators of games are of a homogenous demographic, they tend to produce highly homogenous products.

30-year-old childless White nerds tend to like similar things, which is why the games they make are always about space marines, aliens, big-titties, and shooting the Brown people and Russians.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

I was going to mention this myself. Being a huge fucking nerd, I'm glad to have a slew of immature power fantasies to play around in. Not the biggest problem the industry faces at the moment. But some variety wouldn't be a bad thing either, and it's an interesting phenomenon at any rate.

 

[tuluse]

Compare that to other media. Something like Terminator 1+2, where the main character is being protected by a guardian, who is gone at the end, with them just being fucked up by the whole ordeal. Not a lot of games that play out like that. Lots of movies though.

I think this is difficult to do in an interactive medium. You can't force a player to feel something.

 

[chestburster]

Thief, homogenous, nerd fantasy? You could start by explaining what is a nerd fantasy to you. How Thief can be in the same bag that something like Skyrim, Gears of War or Halo? o_O Last time I checked, there wasn't alot of people making cosplay of Garret.

A thief's story in a medieval steam-punk setting? I don't think anyone can enjoys this other than a major nerd. If anything, that few people cosplays Garret only implies that the contemporary garden-variety nerds (those that enjoy Gays of War or SkyrimJob) cannot into the too-deep4u nerdsm of Thief. Thief's nerdsm is too much even for them.

Let's put it this way, that games such as Thief, or Fallout, or Torment, or Doom, target a highly specific demographic, namely, some technically-savvy/intellectually-developed below-30 single male, namely "nerds". --Please note that I don't use "nerd" as a derogatory term.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Compare that to other media. Something like Terminator 1+2, where the main character is being protected by a guardian, who is gone at the end, with them just being fucked up by the whole ordeal. Not a lot of games that play out like that. Lots of movies though.

I think this is difficult to do in an interactive medium. You can't force a player to feel something.

You can if you're real fucking good. But that difference is what makes (good) game design so difficult; you need to manipulate the player into becoming one of the characters, whether they want to or not. You need to affect the player by changing the gameplay, instead of just beating up the puppets on the screen. I might not get angry if my character gets brutally tortured, by if my character gets brutally tortured and permanently loses some precious stat points, you'll probably draw some predictable emotions out of me.

 

[chestburster]

But you have fantasized about being terrorized by alien monsters on a spaceship, as in SS2?

Also, Portal's narrative, presentation and sense of humor are about as nerdy as you can get. If anything, a game like Antichamber would be a way better example, but that was made by a man.

Sure I have fantasized about shooting alien monsters with my PSI power on a spaceship.

I admit that Portal still has a lot of nerd elements (hey, a female can be a nerd too!). But it's probably as far away from the "typical" nerd fantasy you can get nowadays.