Interview Paradox's Fredrik Wester and Shams Jorjani on Tyranny 2 and Bloodlines 2

[Gruia]

i think obsidian is not to be trusted.
tyranny was dope, and can only get better, if they reduced the hours a bi and added better scripting and choices

 

[Big Wrangle]

It's a half-assed Glen Cook's Black Company rip-off. Quite a popular setting actually.

Ya know, a grand strategy where you completely focus on managing mercenary camps in such a setting could be an interesting idea.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Late capitalism in California has reached the stage where it's unlikely anything genuinely creative will come from there.

That’s why I support indies developers my local store instead of big studios and their publishers Walmart. They care about cRPGs their costumers. Only graphic whores consumerists need big publishers Walmart.

 

[ArchAngel]

Late capitalism in California has reached the stage where it's unlikely anything genuinely creative will come from there. At least not until someone with a genuinely fuck-you punk attitude shows up. I would hate to work in an environment where any misstep in any direction is likely to cause a giant meltdown of special snowflakes on every side of the political spectrum: put in a tranny and you get a full-on waffen-ss freakout, put in a street kid who calls somebody a faggot and you get the same thing from the libs, except with scolding and boycotts instead of death threats and broken windows. Nobody wants to deal with that.

I agree comrade. California needs a red cleansing

 

[ArchAngel]

I just came from future. Status report:

1. New Tyranny looks prettier, smarter and not that linear like a first game. But in every review we can read: "It's nice, but Tyranny 2 could be much better with Obsidian genius. 7/10". Sales anyway drop to the floor and below. Tyranny is officially dead IP.

2. New Vampire game have many woman in power and all looks like Asari from Mass Effect: Andromeda.You can still pick up girls in bars, but only this ugly and this is strongly connected with romances subplot written by female Tumbrl users (just like whole plot). All vampires are slighty dark-skinned, so no more pale bloodsuckers. There is no more Toreador, because it's sexist class, but instead of this you can made trans-vampire. Reviews are positive: "Game is better than first Bloodlines, Arcanum and ToEE taken together. Vampire game for new era of gaming. 10/10 and I want more". In this same time there is war on RPG Codex between: anti-SJW and five true SJW on this forum allied with TINSYCFJEYTVLEEPDN (There-Is-No-SJW-You-Crazy-Fucks-Just-Enjoy-Your-Tranny-Vampires-Like-Everybody-Else-Paradox-Dindu-Nuffin).

Oh, I almost forgot - years 2010-2020 are officially called "Best decade for RPG gaming in history". Enjoy.

Edit: GarfunkeL and Infinitron, this part with TINSYCFJEYTVLEEPDN was inspired by you

Max Edge

It fits..

 

[Delterius]

Just give bloodlines to cd proyekt's state funded research programme on 'big cities in videogames' and rake in the profits.

FFS you and the poles all share the baltic. Its right there.

 

[Tao]

I was going to write just that Delterius.

I hope the "7-10 years" thing is just trolling and they are actually making a game or, like someone else said, i didn't undestand and is just about how long they want to exploit a singular game. But all that inteview shows that they aren't working on a Vampire game yet, and that is fuking beyond despair for me. What are they waiting for?

 

[ArchAngel]

I was going to write just that Delterius.

I hope the "7-10 years" thing is just trolling and they are actually making a game or, like someone else said, i didn't undestand and is just about how long they want to exploit a singular game. But all that inteview shows that they aren't working on a Vampire game yet, and that is fuking beyond despair for me. What are they waiting for?

For Tim and Boyarski to finish their current project of course.

 

[vonAchdorf]

lophiaspis

The company was worth 420 million when they did their IPO. The stock price since has more than quintupled.

 

[Zer0wing]

Wester acknowledges that a second Vampire game “is an obvious choice”

Somebody, bring a fire extinguisher to Nihilistic Software's grave. It looks like Wester wants to write VtM:Redemption out of history. Bastards.

 

[Delterius]

I was going to write just that Delterius.

I hope the "7-10 years" thing is just trolling and they are actually making a game or, like someone else said, i didn't undestand and is just about how long they want to exploit a singular game. But all that inteview shows that they aren't working on a Vampire game yet, and that is fuking beyond despair for me. What are they waiting for?

cyanide's furball videogame

 

[Tao]

That's like waiting for your retard kid to acomplish something in life before you 200iq son. And even if they want to hype a Vampire game with Cyanide's' Werewolf , they should probably be making a Vampire game by now and not when Werewolf get released .

 

[Rahdulan]

But, to address your point, what does it matter? Myth: The Fallen Lords, an absolutely excellent game, was a complete and utter rip-off of the Black Company, down to a T. Did it bother anyone? Not at all. Besides, if you think about it for a moment, the only things taken by Tyranny are:
- the game is set within an "evil" empire,
- there are characters similar to The Ten Who Were Taken (Archons),
- one of them shares some characteristics with Soulcatcher from the novels,

I swear that Myth must've been a licensed game or something earlier in development. Similarities are far too blatant to just write them off as rip-offs or homages.

 

[Max Edge]

I just came from future. Status report:

1. New Tyranny looks prettier, smarter and not that linear like a first game. But in every review we can read: "It's nice, but Tyranny 2 could be much better with Obsidian genius. 7/10". Sales anyway drop to the floor and below. Tyranny is officially dead IP.

2. New Vampire game have many woman in power and all looks like Asari from Mass Effect: Andromeda.You can still pick up girls in bars, but only this ugly and this is strongly connected with romances subplot written by female Tumbrl users (just like whole plot). All vampires are slighty dark-skinned, so no more pale bloodsuckers. There is no more Toreador, because it's sexist class, but instead of this you can made trans-vampire. Reviews are positive: "Game is better than first Bloodlines, Arcanum and ToEE taken together. Vampire game for new era of gaming. 10/10 and I want more". In this same time there is war on RPG Codex between: anti-SJW and five true SJW on this forum allied with TINSYCFJEYTVLEEPDN (There-Is-No-SJW-You-Crazy-Fucks-Just-Enjoy-Your-Tranny-Vampires-Like-Everybody-Else-Paradox-Dindu-Nuffin).

Oh, I almost forgot - years 2010-2020 are officially called "Best decade for RPG gaming in history". Enjoy.

Edit: GarfunkeL and Infinitron, this part with TINSYCFJEYTVLEEPDN was inspired by you

Max Edge

It fits..

You welcome.

But, to address your point, what does it matter? Myth: The Fallen Lords, an absolutely excellent game, was a complete and utter rip-off of the Black Company, down to a T. Did it bother anyone? Not at all. Besides, if you think about it for a moment, the only things taken by Tyranny are:
- the game is set within an "evil" empire,
- there are characters similar to The Ten Who Were Taken (Archons),
- one of them shares some characteristics with Soulcatcher from the novels,

I swear that Myth must've been a licensed game or something earlier in development. Similarities are far too blatant to just write them off as rip-offs or homages.

I've actually looked that up, and they did not. Maybe Glen Cook simply didn't care, or simply the game market was still a very niche one and no one noticed?

Speaking about Cook. Monte Cook created once d20 version of World of Darkness (it was called simply "Monte Cook's World of Darkness"). That was apocalyptic world full mindless shooting and melee fights. More information here ( https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13404.phtml):

"The Iconnu, unknowable beings of incredible power from beyond our reality, feed on realities. When they came to feed on our reality they failed – the collective mental strength of Awakened humans (the best humanity has to offer) blocked their assault. Instead, they managed to puncture a hole into our universe (called the Intrusion point) in the central United States which covers hundreds of miles. At the moment of the puncture an event called the Nightmare Wave spread across the world, changing things as it went. Magic came back to the world, and the Iconnu sent evil spirits and souls back into the world to causes destruction and slay the Awakened.

Today, one year later, a large portion of central United States is gone, and much of the rest is a twisted land of nightmare and destruction. The entire area is under martial law, and the United States has withdrawn from absolutely all foreign concerns in an attempt to secure itself. Vampires, demons, werewolves, and stranger things still stalk the streets, the dead return to life, and magic is real. Nevertheless, 99% of humanity doesn’t know quite what happened in the United States. Vampires are only understood by a scant few, and the evil beings among us have quickly learned that they must be clever and strike from the shadows if they hope to survive. It’s a world suffering an apocalypse, a world bathed in darkness, and a world not unlike our own all at once."


That could be a base for CoD-like shooter...or multiplayer shooter.

 

[set]

The Witcher 3 made 100 bazillion dollars.
Turns out though, the "3" part is what's actually important.
It took CD Project 2 games to get to "3". They honed their craft and the franchise while they did it.
Does anyone remember the first Witcher? It was sleazy boob-trading-card tier jank of an RPG. Sure, it was fun enough, and it was kind of ambitious with the time travel narrative -- but it was pretty shit.
The second game iterated on the first. It was still shit, but hey, it was a mega improvement. Some people mistakenly think it's even a classic, or something.
And then they made 3! And it made a bazillion dollars! It wasn't very good either, but it looks really pretty and that's what counts these days.

What I'm saying is...however long they plan to put WoD on the backburner, they're just making it waste away. I think it could be "The next wild hunt" of RPGs. But to get there they've got to make two playable games in the series. Build up an engine. Build up skills and team cohesion. Have an excuse to put a "3" in your game title (I call this the "Rule of Fallout 3" - people will buy it if there are sequels nobody has heard about and good grafix). Make some low budget RPG goodness. Do it, please, I'm tired of waiting.


Also, please keep the SJW out of this thread. This is WoD here. You're basically encouraged to play as the most unprivileged vampire you can possibly think of. You could parody the fucking game hard enough into ironic seriousness quite easily by being as SJW as possible during character creation. Werewolf is literally "furries get out of the closet". And changeling? That's for pedos. You're not going to find any bit of normalcy talking about this universe.

 

[Max Edge]

The Witcher 3 made 100 bazillion dollars.

Also, please keep the SJW out of this thread. This is WoD here. You're basically encouraged to play as the most unprivileged vampire you can possibly think of. You could parody the fucking game hard enough into ironic seriousness quite easily by being as SJW as possible during character creation. Werewolf is literally "furries get out of the closet". And changeling? That's for pedos. You're not going to find any bit of normalcy talking about this universe.

You could says that about Thundercats. But Tumblr always found the way ...

Picture drawn by sexist-misogynist:

Tumbrlish, from new Cartoon Network series:

 

[gaussgunner]

Does anyone remember the first Witcher? It was sleazy boob-trading-card tier jank of an RPG. Sure, it was fun enough, and it was kind of ambitious with the time travel narrative -- but it was pretty shit.

I kinda like it. It's better than 2. I need a better gpu to fully appreciate 3 but so far it's pretty meh.

Anyway, V:TM 3 toward the end of next decade... maybe... made by yet another developer, with yet another engine... might as well be a new game except for the IP. You can't compare that to CDPR.

 

[Lycra Suit]

Wester says “we are experimenting with a couple of the White Wolf brands right now,” but are aware that a new franchise can’t be immediately started from scratch ("if you’re going to build a big franchise you need to think in a seven-to-ten year cycle”) and that if the Vampire IP was to receive that kind of attention, “we need to know what the next ten years are going to look like.”

All evidence points to Wester and the rest of Paradox's higher ups having no idea how game development or even basic marketing works. They hazarded on a niche that was barely exploited and who's audience does 99% of the promotional work for you, and have been riding that wave since. And they still managed to mess that up with HoI4. Every other projects they have directed or taken an active part into has been a disaster.
Some people would like to point out Vermintide but I would attribute its success to Game Workshop's heavy handed approach to partnerships.

 

[Bladeract]

Paradox is a company with cheap ass thinking and always had been. They will never make a game that makes 100 bazillion dollars, to even try they would first need to get their own shit hot game engine. They want to make the most money for the least effort, which means they probably won't ever give RPGs much of a try, since that takes a lot of investment and expertise is usually not much ROI.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Paradox is a company with cheap ass thinking and always had been. They will never make a game that makes 100 bazillion dollars, to even try they would first need to get their own shit hot game engine. They want to make the most effort for the least money, which means they probably won't ever give RPGs much of a try, since that takes a lot of investment and expertise is usually not much ROI.

Paradox published Tyranny less than two years ago. If it had sold maybe 50,000 more copies right out of the gate, they’d probably be paying for a sequel as we speak. While Wester is stepping down as CEO, he’s still going to be chairman and he’s repeatedly talked about making an RPG internally. You don’t buy White Wolf if you don’t want to make RPGs. They already chose to get into the genre when they made that acquisition.

These guys are just very plodding and deliberate in their decision making. What else would you expect from the company that makes Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis?

 

[Bladeract]

Paradox is a company with cheap ass thinking and always had been. They will never make a game that makes 100 bazillion dollars, to even try they would first need to get their own shit hot game engine. They want to make the most effort for the least money, which means they probably won't ever give RPGs much of a try, since that takes a lot of investment and expertise is usually not much ROI.

Paradox published Tyranny less than two years ago. If it had sold maybe 50,000 more copies right out of the gate, they’d probably be paying for a sequel as we speak. While Wester is stepping down as CEO, he’s still going to be chairman and he’s repeatedly talked about making an RPG internally. You don’t buy White Wolf if you don’t want to make RPGs. They already chose to get into the genre when they made that acquisition.

These guys are just very plodding and deliberate in their decision making. What else would you expect from the company that makes Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis?

Tyrrany was obviously pretty low budget though. They probably thought they would get the same ROI they get with their strategy games but that is just impossible with RPGs even if the developer is great at making them. The main reason W 3 made so much is everyone played W1 and W2 and was excited for it.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

What always strikes me as odd is the propensity for various fantasy universes to adopt the Antique model of deities (basically immortal, powerful, and very flawed humans), yet always choose the Medieval setting.

You know, that's a good point. Most Fantasy Universes seem to be pretty much "Generic Medieval Europe, but with Paganism instead of Christianity. Also Elves and stuff". Which is more Gygax than Tolkien.
Thing is, the Christian/Monotheist religion and the entire feudal system based on a multi-tier society of Nobles, Clergymen, Burghers and Peasants is kinda hard to mix with paganism.

When you think of it, its a weird association - it would be like a making about Ancient Greece-expies, but everyone is a hard monotheist who worships the One God in a way more like the Eastern Roman Empire.

Only settings that I can think that defy this are:

- AoW where it seems more of a Tolkien-style "all the good guys are monotheists worshipping the true god" and all the "gods" are either misunderstood angels, wizards or monsters. The Azracs in the original game were pretty much arab muslim invaders that worshiped a fire-loving Monotheist God, but AOW2 lamely retconned Yaka into some wizard.
- AoD where the all the Gods we see

Spoiler

are Lovecraftian-ish otherdimensional entities inside human hosts.

- Dragon Age seems to be more of a pseudo-catholic thing, except God has apparently... left? Then again, I only played some of it.

 

[Ruzen]

Let me tell you what I think about Paradox with an example.
After all these years they said they are going to release a rework for the crusades for the first time in 6 years! I signed in and said exactly this: People have been asking for something like this for 4 years. I wished this change happened in the golden years of CK2.
And I got banned 9 months for trolling.

Their snowflake level is higher than an average Californian. The only studio was able to get along with them is the ones who made Cityskylines (which is a shit game, only sold because of the latest Simcity disappointment) and their woman employee ratio is like %90 so there you go.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

couldn't we just get a grandstrategy/rpg hybrid following the events of the first game. you start as lord of the tiers and then have to take on the whole Kairos empire. do it anyway you want. diplomacy, commando missions and such could be heavily rpg:ish. or whatever

 

[Kev Inkline]

Imma deowner yer ass, Paradox, you hear me!